Are the tier 6-9 IJN cruisers fine?

[BlailBlerg]

I worked up to fully upgraded aoba. Have arp myokos and takao. Do well in takao due to heal and forward torps. 

This is a two purpose discussion: are these ships good? Or what's a better way to play them and what are their actual strengths? 

 

People say these cruisers have great akpha HE but really these ships put up lackluster DMV results in stats aggregators. 

Concealment?  Their range is so poor that you're always in the ideal blasting range for BBs. 

Torps are powerful. But only back torps means a very difficult time using them. 

 

Suppodedly the myoko is best when kitung but how do you get close enough forward and turn without getting deleted? 

Still also is the main issue that if you're kiting you cannot push or take caps that way. 

 

There was another thread that saud that its basivslly a combo of player error and poor gun angles that makes the cruisers citadel vulnerable for large amounts of time trying to use all their guns. Using only part of the guns though equates to very poor damage. 

 

Is it historically and modelly possible to give the myoko better gun arcs so that the citadels vulnerability is a shorter window? 

Higher range?  There are t5 cruisers with longer range. :/. 

Pr perhaps a minor increase in rudder shift? Or turning rate 

[SireneRacker]

IJN Cruisers are fine, trust me.

The HE is good, the gun arcs are good.

You actually have some armor, not against BBs but against other Cruisers.

Did I mention the good Torp protection?

And many turrets, so a loss won't hit you as hard as for example on the New Orleans.

[Unabletony]

Ships are fantastic.

If you're playing just because of their torps, you're doing it wrong.

Concealment? The best. Get it down to below torp range. At tier 5, she gets the biggest at that tier, and to compensate, lower range. At higher tiers, range is great. You kite with your back guns and front. Use your speed and rudder to make them mislead.

[Doomlock]

Ninja'd

[Goose21891]

Only one I wasn't a big fan of was Ibuki

[Hanz_Gooblemienhoffen_42]

Ya overall they are most balanced of all the CAs:

Decent arm when angled

Strong HE and AP (Okay-ish range)

Long Range Torps (10km catch people off guard, 15k alpha)

Good speed and decent turn radius..

 

they are good at just about everything but certainly not masters of any...and every CA in the game is pretty vulnerable when broadside...so when people say "good arm" just keep that in mind.

you 100% wont regret that line...just dont expect any OP boats..but no real stinkers like some of the other lines.

 

 

 

[TruePoindexter]

They're solid. Focus on stealth and HE fire and you're good to go. Torps are a bonus not the point - don't make any dangerous turns just to fire torps as that's just asking to be punished. Bow on you can go toe to toe with other CA/CL quite handily. 

[Dr_Venture]

19 minutes ago, Goose21891 said:

Only one I wasn't a big fan of was Ibuki

The line is great, but I feel like the Ibuki is a flat out Tier 8....there are virtually no improvements over the Mogami in my book that makes it stand out. I get that the ship was basically a repeat of the Mogami...but it coulda used a little fantasy love. 

 

So far it's doing alright in battle...but I'm not racking up nearly as much damage as I would in say a Neptune or the Roon...both boats feel far superior. 

[1nv4d3rZ1m]

The ships are great, some of my favorite ships. As for specific tactics, yes kiting is the optimal way to play the ship. You want to stay as far away as you can and still hit targets effectively and to get concealment so when you need to make a turn you can do it safely from stealth. Recommended captain skills are CE, DE, EM, and PT get camo on your ship to improve your detection and use premium repair. You have to stay angled when ships are shooting at you and then unmask and shoot your guns then angle back in to the safe angles before the next set of enemy shells reach. The overall DPM of the ships is maybe not especially good but the HE does more damage than other nations HE and the fire chance is good so you get more fires to augment your dpm. The torps are not really a primary weapon, sometimes they make a difference but you cant play specifically focusing on using them. Torps are just a weapon of opportunity. 

[HazeGrayUnderway]

The HE power of IJN Cruisers makes them nasty business against any ship type.  DD, Cruiser, even BBs hate eating their HE salvos.  They also have the highest Fire% as a Cruiser line.  I still remember fondly when I was a new player in Colorado that a Myoko was the first ship to show me that yes, you can have four fires raging on you at the same time.

 

The torps are very nasty surprises in the right situation, especially when they're withdrawing.  They also have the longest range and power of Cruiser torpedoes.  If I roll a BB and want to run down a Cruiser, an IJN Cruiser operating around islands is a massive Red Flag of "NOPE."

 

Other than that I feel the Tier VII-IX ones are pretty decent for the job but they share a few common issues:

1.  Citadel City - The ships are actually decently protected as a Cruiser but the they have immense citadels.  A classic mistake of an IJN CA is showing a full broadside to launch torps, but the enemy is waiting for it.

2.  Mediocre Gun Range for Tier VII-VIII - Almost reaching 16km gun range is just average.  Incidentally, around 15km is where a number of BBs like to shoot and is their ideal & safe shooting parameter.  Tier IX Ibuki gets excellent possible range.

3.  Mediocre turret traverse time - Especially at Tier VII Myoko but it gets better at VIII.  Still not fast though.

4.  Poor AA, especially since typical IJN Cruiser builds don't ever dedicate build space for AA.  CE, DE are much higher priorities than BFT, AFT, AAGM2 upgrade.

[BlailBlerg]

2 minutes ago, HazeGrayUnderway said:

The HE power of IJN Cruisers makes them nasty business against any ship type.  DD, Cruiser, even BBs hate eating their HE salvos.  They also have the highest Fire% as a Cruiser line.  I still remember fondly when I was a new player in Colorado that a Myoko was the first ship to show me that yes, you can have four fires raging on you at the same time.

 

The torps are very nasty surprises in the right situation, especially when they're withdrawing.  They also have the longest range and power of Cruiser torpedoes.  If I roll a BB and want to run down a Cruiser, an IJN Cruiser operating around islands is a massive Red Flag of "NOPE."

 

Other than that I feel the Tier VII-IX ones are pretty decent for the job but they share a few common issues:

1.  Citadel City - The ships are actually decently protected as a Cruiser but the they have immense citadels.  A classic mistake of an IJN CA is showing a full broadside to launch torps, but the enemy is waiting for it.

2.  Mediocre Gun Range for Tier VII-VIII - Almost reaching 16km gun range is just average.  Incidentally, around 15km is where a number of BBs like to shoot and is their ideal & safe shooting parameter.  Tier IX Ibuki gets excellent possible range.

3.  Mediocre turret traverse time - Especially at Tier VII Myoko but it gets better at VIII.  Still not fast though.

4.  Poor AA, especially since typical IJN Cruiser builds don't ever dedicate build space for AA.  CE, DE are much higher priorities than BFT, AFT, AAGM2 upgrade.

See this is exactly what I mean. Also takaos concealment is workable. 9.2 km and has forward torps. Makes you really capable of pushing. 

 

But it myoko has like 13km normal and then like 11km after CE. It's really not serviceable to make that turn to kite ever until late in the game. Bythen it feels like you've already lost from having to avoid being spotted and dying. 

 

Really and myokos range is awful. Forget about "good arm". There are DDs with longer range. And t5 cruisers with longer range. 

[BlailBlerg]

Not to mention on the IJN heavy cruisers the long reload time somewhat inhibits your DD killing capability. So naturally yes she's better vs other cruisers and starting fire on BBs. But she does take an obvious hit to the cruisers normal role of DD killer. Not to say you won't deal good damage. But only getting a few shots makes this an unideal role with the reload 

[TruePoindexter]

1 minute ago, BlailBlerg said:

Not to mention on the IJN heavy cruisers the long reload time somewhat inhibits your DD killing capability. So naturally yes she's better vs other cruisers and starting fire on BBs. But she does take an obvious hit to the cruisers normal role of DD killer. Not to say you won't deal good damage. But only getting a few shots makes this an unideal role with the reload 

 

Honestly with the advent of radar DD hunting pretty much is the role of USN/Russian CA/CL anyway. 

[Dr_Venture]

I feel like the IJN cruisers were gimped with a bad turret traverse....

[SireneRacker]

35 minutes ago, Dr_Venture said:

The line is great, but I feel like the Ibuki is a flat out Tier 8....there are virtually no improvements over the Mogami in my book that makes it stand out. I get that the ship was basically a repeat of the Mogami...but it coulda used a little fantasy love. 

 

So far it's doing alright in battle...but I'm not racking up nearly as much damage as I would in say a Neptune or the Roon...both boats feel far superior. 

 

Well she does get some good improvements. The AA goes from pathetic to usable, the range from god awful to usable, you get the repair option which is always great and on top can install the sixth module. That sixth module allows some drastic improvements, be it a range of ~19km, a better reload or a major improvement to the AA.

 

I don't see how Ibuki is not a major step up from Mogami. Unless of course a player is deeply in love with the 155mm guns.

[TruePoindexter]

2 minutes ago, Dr_Venture said:

I feel like the IJN cruisers were gimped with a bad turret traverse....

I personally hate the #3 or #2 turrets depending on the ship. You have to present a huge amount of broadside to get all your guns on target typically. 

[1nv4d3rZ1m]

4 minutes ago, Dr_Venture said:

I feel like the IJN cruisers were gimped with a bad turret traverse....

Its to balance how good the ships are in other ways. 10 fantastic 203mm guns with the best HE in the game needed something to keep them from being too strong. Plus the excellent concealment and other aspects that make the ships strong. 

[Dr_Venture]

Flat sides = death just an FYI. 

 

I dunno maybe I'm just spoiled by the hindy and mino. I may put on the range mod and be a long range fire spammer. 

[Mizzerys_Fate]

Aoba is strong 203 range sniper.

Myoko is very strong ship with angled armour..

mogami 155 is love.

Ibuki is powerful fire starter and her 203 hit hard. So is good too.

[desmo_2]

I think they are all good.  I even liked Ibuki once I got familiar with old girl.  People say her torp arcs are too restrictive to be useful, but in countless engagements I found opportunities to use them...and had satisfying results.

I did go back and re-buy Mogami, then spec'd her for a fast-turning, fast-firing 155mm fire hose.  I must say, baiting BB's to shoot only to cut power and turn away from those shots is quite fun, in a trollish way.  All the while I burn them down with lots of 155.

[TruePoindexter]

10 minutes ago, SireneRacker said:

I don't see how Ibuki is not a major step up from Mogami. Unless of course a player is deeply in love with the 155mm guns.

 

I haven't touched the Mogami since CBT but I know the 155's were awesome. 

[DerKrampus]

35 minutes ago, BlailBlerg said:

But it myoko has like 13km normal and then like 11km after CE. It's really not serviceable to make that turn to kite ever until late in the game. Bythen it feels like you've already lost from having to avoid being spotted and dying. 

Generally, you should turn away and start kiting before you open fire and break detection.  Or, use an island to do so.  Basically, anything to avoid getting your broadside cored-out.

[bassmasta76]

As others have implied, forget you have torps until the situation is right. With proper angling, they can actually take a beating.  I'm only up to the Myoko right now, but thus far I really like it, as well as the Aoba.  

 

The turret traverse sucks, but its manageable if you time things right.  Keeping one eye on the mini-map is key as well.

 

Having fought many an Ibuki and Zao, I can assure you that they are totally worth any perceived grind up the tiers.

 

Last thought, aside from balance purposes, any "issues" the mid tiers have will give you good experience when at the top.. 

 

Gl;hf

 

B

 

[SireneRacker]

2 minutes ago, TruePoindexter said:

I haven't touched the Mogami since CBT but I know the 155's were awesome. 

 

I played the 155, found them to be meh. Without IFHE they can't really damage BBs, and I know better T4 skills to use. My build had little room for IFHE. I sticked to the 203mm guns, they had that certain something.

[Madwolf05]

The IJN line is a little odd between 6 and 9, but as a whole the line is good.

 

Aoba - Tier 6 is a good spot for her currently. She's not amazing, may be slightly under powered, but she's not a frustrating ship to play, and has plenty of tools.

 

Myoko - She's a former Tier 8 ship at Tier 7 and it shows. She's super powerful thanks to her staying powering with her huge HP pool. She wouldn't be the best Tier 8 ship by any means, but she doesn't get enough love for what she is.

 

Mogami - The Mogami is little more like the Aoba in my opinion, but I'm not sure she needs buffs. 8 is a weird spot for Cruisers unless you're using the Atago or Kutozov. The Mogami has just enough tools to make her powerful in certain situations, but she can feel disappointing in others. As far as Tier 8 Cruisers go I think she's in a good spot in comparison.

 

Ibuki - The Ibuki is the opposite of the Myoko. She's a Tier 8 ship at Tier 9. If the Ibuki was the Indianapolis, the Mogami would be the Pensacola. The Ibuki is an okay ship against Tier 8 Cruisers, but it just feels like an uptiered Mogami against Tier 9 and 10 ships. While you may hate her HE spam, I can assure you that if you played 1,000 games at Tier 9 you'll be able to count the times you said: "Oh crap it's the Ibuki" on set of fingers.