work in progress Not spending a Cent on Enterprise, and Neither should You

[Carrier_Lexington]

I'm not joking. This is from the same person who posted the "Big E is on the way" thread about a month ago.

The basis of that thread was that I was expressing Hype that the most famous carrier ever to be in the war was coming to the game. The carrier that was, for a great deal of time, the only functional USN carrier in the pacific. The same Enterprise of which was remarked, "The War in the Pacific was largely fought on the Enteprise's Flight deck" by a history buff clan-mate of mine.

 

And now I'm here to take it all back, though it pains me to do so.

 

I wanted to like Enterprise. I wanted to buy her. I wanted to have her in my port and play her. But WG, and Sub_Octavian in particular, since he's the Meta Director and thus directly responsible for any and all things that happen in game, have decided to once again give USN CVs the middle finger. Now, I understand not wanting to have another Saipan. I understand not wanting to make it Pay to Win. But this? This is Pay to Lose. This is beyond "balance" or even making premium ships slightly worse than their tech-tree counterparts. This is a massive "Go f--k yourselves" to any USN CV player in the game, as well as anyone who gives a rat's [edited]about history.

 

Note that this isn't an insult to Sub_Octavian, as that would be against the rules. What's not against the rules is to lay the entirety of the blame squarely at the feet of the person whose job description stipulates that they are ultimately responsible for every mechanic and change implemented in the game, since he gets the final say-so in any decision. This is known as "criticism," and is essential to the definition of "responsibility."

 

Wow, that sounds really salty of me. But let's just take a look at why I'm saying all these things.

Note: The following picture is considered Work in Progress. Stats shown are subject to change.

 

 

So, many of you have heard the reviews, and what iChase, Notser, and others have had to say on this subject. Let me summarize the reasoning briefly:

• Truly astonishing T7 Aircraft which will get slaughtered as you helplessly feed any ship with T7+ AA! And, with Enterprise's T8 matchmaking spread, that's 4/5ths of what it can see!
• Glorious idle play against T9 MM and up. You're more likely to win quitting straight back to port, or even uninstalling the game, than by actually trying to do anything.
• Even more Glorious W-shaped torpedo drop pattern that you can't hit anything with! Because USN CVs don't really need torpedoes, do they?
• Wonderful Premium ship status so that you don't lose as many credits as you would if this were a tech-tree ship!
• Astounding standard matchmaking so you are can have your share of the "75% Idle Games or Your Money Back" guarantee!

 

I'm sorry, Enterprise, that the WarGaming Developers have treated you this way. It's pretty insulting, especially seeing as you were pretty-much what won the War in the Pacific. I wanted to love you. But Sub_Octavian and all those working for him decided to gimp you and all your sisters.

 

So, I don't forsee myself spending any money on Enterprise. I guess I'll just save for Graf Zeppelin when she comes out.

 

The only thing that could change my mind at this point would be a positive review from LittleWhiteMouse, and, with the stats currently as they are, I am not quite sure that the review from LWM is going to be anything mind-blowing.

[1Sherman]

I just hope WG doesn't f*ck over the HMCS Haida or I will be seriously miffed.

[Carrier_Lexington]

Just now, Apaosha said:

I wonder how long it is until this thread gets locked down by moderators....

According to the rules, they shouldn't be able to. The only things they could theoretically bring to bear against it are "Insulting Wargaming Staff," which I've addressed, or the rule against posting non-released ships without a Work in Progress disclaimer.

 

 

And I think I'm covered.

[LittleWhiteMouse]

I'm hard at work on reviewing the release version of Enterprise as we speak.  I'll only be coming up for air occasionally.  There's a lot to test and not much time.

[umaroo]

I don't think this is an Enterprise problem, I think it's a match-making problem. The number of times you get up tiered +2 is too great, and just how many of tier 9/10 ships are on a team. If it was 1 or 4 ~ T9/10 ships overall we would not be talking about this at all. I do think the mod will help with the Enterprises health, and I do like how at the end of the day, it is more focused on the fighters. Just like Saipan...it's main focus is the fighters..the TBs and the lone DB are just extra.

[Carrier_Lexington]

Just now, LittleWhiteMouse said:

I'm hard at work on reviewing the release version of Enterprise as we speak.  I'll only be coming up for air occasionally.  There's a lot to test and not much time.

Oh! I've been noticed!

 

Anyway, this is not meant to take away from what you say. In fact, you're the only person who could change my mind here.

 

Keep at it Mouse! We all appreciate the hard work you do!

[RipNuN2]

TBH OP almost all those were previews of the WIP Enterprise not reviews. Let's wait for the various reviews are out of the release version before we go all pitchfork mode. It could very well be that the Enterprise is a disappointment or perhaps the changes have made her more viable.

[Fog_Repair_Ship_Akashi]

1 minute ago, MisoSovp said:

I don't think this is a Enterprise problem, I think it's a match-making problem. The number of times you get up tiered +2 is too great, and just how many of tier 9/10 ships are on a team. If it was 1 or 4 ~ T9/10 ships overall we would not be talking about this at all. I do think the mod will help with the Enterprises health, and I do like how at the end of the day, it is more focused on the fighters. Just like Saipan...it's main focus is the fighters..the TBs and the lone DB is just extra.

i have to agree with this guy, Wargaming's mistake was making it tier 8. If it was tier 7 it would be perfect. As for the massive amount of fighters and bad drop pattern, it makes sense since that is how CV's work in this game, US has a better AS loadout and the IJN has better strike loadouts (however if they add the RN Cv's then things will get interesting). Don't get me wrong though i do agree this is very disrespectful to the Enterprise and her legacy (hell they even screwed up her description!).

[Fog_Repair_Ship_Akashi]

3 minutes ago, RipNuN2 said:

TBH OP almost all those were previews of the WIP Enterprise not reviews. Let's wait for the various reviews are out of the release version before we go all pitchfork mode. It could very well be that the Enterprise is a disappointment or perhaps the changes have made her more viable.

Oh sure..lets give her AP bombs that are only useful against CA's and BB's that will completely mince the tier 7 planes it has....yah, great change!(sarcasm).

[Magic_Fighting_Tuna]

Not meaning to nit-pick but if you loved the Enterprise as much as you say you do you'd buy it regardless of how she preforms. If you truly love her you'd buy her because she's the Enterprise and not a competitive trinket. Again I'm not insulting you just questioning your opinion, you talk about WG making her an insult to history and history buff's, but a true history buff wouldn't care about her in game performance. I sure a shoot don't with any of my ships, sure being competitive and getting improvements is always nice but if that's what you base your yes's and no's on then your not really a history, fluff buff. You will learn to accept them for what they are.

[Bill_Halsey]

What I am seeing in the wiki is that she does have a shokaku's squadron loadout but, but her reserves mean she's going to end up a bigger version of the Saipan is AS configuration. Is it worth shelling out roughly $60-80 bucks for it? I see no hook to buy it.

37 minutes ago, Carrier_Lexington said:

The only thing that could change my mind at this point would be a positive review from LittleWhiteMouse, and, with the stats currently as they are, I am not quite sure that the review from LWM is going to be anything mind-blowing.

LHM already said we are not going to be happy with the review. 

[Carrier_Lexington]

1 minute ago, Magic_Fighting_Tuna said:

Not meaning to nit-pick but if you loved the Enterprise as much as you say you do you'd buy it regardless of how she preforms. If you truly love her you'd buy her because she's the Enterprise and not a competitive trinket. Again I'm not insulting you just questioning your opinion, you talk about WG making her an insult to history and history buff's, but a true history buff wouldn't care about her in game performance. I sure a shoot don't with any of my ships, sure being competitive and getting improvements is always nice but if that's what you base your yes's and no's on then your not really a history, fluff buff.

"Not meaning to insult you, but [insert insult here]."

Look, I'm not a flag-waving rich guy who can afford to drop money on anything historical. I'm a real person who has to save real money for important things. So I'm not going to "buy her because she's the Enterprise."

 

So, please, before you post something flaming like that, at least think for a moment.

 

16 minutes ago, RipNuN2 said:

TBH OP almost all those were previews of the WIP Enterprise not reviews.

I know that, which is why I took the time to put Work In Progress on everything. I'm not commenting on the previews, I'm commenting on the stats and what that means for her gameplay, since I have experience in USN CVs.

[AspiringCodger]

7 minutes ago, Magic_Fighting_Tuna said:

I sure a shoot don't with any of my ships, sure being competitive and getting improvements is always nice but if that's what you base your yes's and no's on then your not really a history, fluff buff. You will learn to accept them for what they are.

 

That in no way makes you a history buff.  In no way would not buying it make the OP not a history buff.  All it does is show you're a whale.

[Bill_Halsey]

23 minutes ago, RipNuN2 said:

TBH OP almost all those were previews of the WIP Enterprise not reviews. Let's wait for the various reviews are out of the release version before we go all pitchfork mode. It could very well be that the Enterprise is a disappointment or perhaps the changes have made her more viable.

Well, the stats and description are already posted on the wiki..subject to change of course. The price stated is 14k gold. comes to roughly $ 65 as she is. Pretty steep price.

[Fog_Repair_Ship_Akashi]

Carrier_Lexington 2 questions here. - 1. If Enterprise was at tier 7 do you think that would help her in anny real way (we already know Wargaming will not change that horrible drop pattern)?

                                                                2. I hate to say it, but I will be buying CV(N)-6 even if it sucks because i want to and I'm sure others will as well so there is a slight chance it could be changed  if enough people complain about it. If that were to occur what do you think needs to be changed (You can't say change the tier)?

[LadyJess]

Will wait and see what the reviews on this ship says. Will then decide from there.

[Magic_Fighting_Tuna]

1 minute ago, Carrier_Lexington said:

"Not meaning to insult you, but [insert insult here]."

Look, I'm not a flag-waving rich guy who can afford to drop money on anything historical. I'm a real person who has to save real money for important things. So I'm not going to "buy her because she's the Enterprise."

 

So, please, before you post something flaming like that, at least think for a moment.

 

I know that, which is why I took the time to put Work In Progress on everything. I'm not commenting on the previews, I'm commenting on the stats and what that means for her gameplay, since I have experience in USN CVs.

You know you can question or disagree's with one's opinion without insulting someone, and I'm sorry you felt that way. And I'm not a rich flag waving guy either(I'm actually Canadian so you know no American flag here) I'm a real person who has to save real money for important things. I probably just don't have many strings attached like a wife, kids debt. etc. so I probably have more room to throw money at things. So you were willing to throw money at her if she preformed better???

[Carrier_Lexington]

Just now, Fog_Repair_Ship_Akashi said:

@Carrier_Lexington 2 questions here. - 1. If Enterprise was at tier 7 do you think that would help her in anny real way (we already know Wargaming will not change that horrible drop pattern)?

                                                                2. I hate to say it but i will be buying CV(N)-6 even if it sucks because i want to and I'm sure others will as well so there is a slight chance it could be changed, if that were to occur what do you think needs to be changed (You can't say change the tier)?

Wow, that's some interesting formatting. Didn't know you could do that personally. Gotta check it out.

 

Anyway, to the first question: I think it would help a great deal. In fact, if they buffed Saipan's squad sizes and reserves a little and switched the two carriers, I think that would completely fix the issues with both.

 

To the second: Give her T8 planes. Contrary to what others have said, T8 planes with at T9 module do not become T9 planes. Essex's aircraft still lead by a significant margin. And, at any rate, Arkansas Beta gets all the upgrade slots at T4. Does that make her the equivalent of a T10? No. So I feel that giving Enterprise T8 planes is justified.

[Wulfgarn]

 

[Fog_Repair_Ship_Akashi]

Just now, Carrier_Lexington said:

Wow, that's some interesting formatting. Didn't know you could do that personally. Gotta check it out.

 

Anyway, to the first question: I think it would help a great deal. In fact, if they buffed Saipan's squad sizes and reserves a little and switched the two carriers, I think that would completely fix the issues with both.

 

To the second: Give her T8 planes. Contrary to what others have said, T8 planes with at T9 module do not become T9 planes. Essex's aircraft still lead by a significant margin. And, at any rate, Arkansas Beta gets all the upgrade slots at T4. Does that make her the equivalent of a T10? No. So I feel that giving Enterprise T8 planes is justified.

Thanks, too bad Wargaming can't think of an idea as simple as yours.

[Umikami]

47 minutes ago, LittleWhiteMouse said:

I'm hard at work on reviewing the release version of Enterprise as we speak.  I'll only be coming up for air occasionally.  There's a lot to test and not much time.

I am so totally supportive of your efforts to produce this review, Mouse, that I went out and got you your very own cheerleaders!

They're just for you, Tiger! (actually, some of them are already wearing your colors!)

[Magic_Fighting_Tuna]

13 minutes ago, AspiringCodger said:

 

That in no way makes you a history buff.  In no way would not buying it make the OP not a history buff.  All it does is show you're a whale.

I'm not a whale I'm a magical fish you manatee, in a way it does cause the ships I play is because I like them because of how they look and I became interested in them because of their baggage that came along with them. Sure not buying it doesn't make you a history buff but if you make an argument about it insulting history and history buff's then not buy it because it can't wipe enemy ships off the place of the earth in game that doesn't make you a history buff either. It means your a competitive person an trying to use history to justify you claim.

[Bill_Halsey]

4 minutes ago, Carrier_Lexington said:

To the second: Give her T8 planes. Contrary to what others have said, T8 planes with at T9 module do not become T9 planes. Essex's aircraft still lead by a significant margin. And, at any rate, Arkansas Beta gets all the upgrade slots at T4. Does that make her the equivalent of a T10? No. So I feel that giving Enterprise T8 planes is justified.

Or do rebalance the airplane reserves more toward the bombers.

[Carrier_Lexington]

Just now, Magic_Fighting_Tuna said:

 So you were willing to throw money at her if she preformed better???

I don't spend money on ships like Smith or Tachibana, I'm not a Premium collector. The only premiums I buy are the ones which will help me maintain my Credits in the odd case that I decide to take Midway out. I own Warspite, Dunkerque, and Alabama, as well as several ARPs which I'm stuck with.

 

So, in that case, you could say that I define "value" as credit- and Free-XP-earning potential, as well as fun. Since Enterprise will be T8, we can probably expect a price tag similar to Alabama or Atago, or in the $60-70 range for the Basic bundle. But, with her stats as they are (work in progress, stats subject to change), and no preferential MM, I can't honestly say that her Credit Earning potential is looking very great at all, nor can I say she will be very fun.

 

Derping shots through the bow of a battleship with Warspite is fun. Sneaky-sneaky Alabama is fun. But... I don't feel that I will really have very much fun with Enterprise.

 

In fact, I actually might buy her, if I have cash to spare, just to review her and put-up videos on her performance to hopefully convince WG to change her. But I'm not going to buy a pixelated ship because it's named "Enterprise."

[Carrier_Lexington]

7 minutes ago, Umikami said:

I am so totally supportive of your efforts to produce this review, mouse, that I went out and got you your very own cheerleaders!

They're just for you, Tiger!