Secondary builds below tier 7

[Seraphil]

Curious what the forum's overall opinion is on this in the current meta.  Viable, not viable?  Obviously, tier 7 and up builds have the bonus of -60% dispersion with manual secondaries, so that's a different discussion entirely.

 

I'm in the "viable" camp, especially with certain tier 5~6 battleships.  I'm considerably aggressive in Arizona in particular, and I feel this works a lot for it.

 

Edit: I should make the distinction between secondary builds with MS and those without.  I don't use MS on my build in these tiers.

[Unabletony]

Not Manual Secondaries, as they don't benefit much from the small percentage. However, AFT still works, and it lets your secondaries be active on both sides, which is a plus.

[RipNuN2]

Manual secondaries are not worth 4 points below T7, the other secondary buffing skills and module can make sense on certain ships though.

[Dodgy_Cookies]

Not worth the 4 points on low tier BBs. Not worth the points on many high tier BBs either as to make the most use of the skill you really also need the get AFT which means losing out on either CE and/or FP (depending on if you use 2113 or 1222).

 

Personally I only run it on Bismarck Tirpitz and FDG in a 2113 build.

 

the top 3 T4 skill choices for sub T6 BBs would be CE FP AFT with KM BBs having a choice in using Manual AA as well.

Man secs are a distant 4th/5th.

[VTAdmiral]

Manual Secondaries isn't great on them, but AFT and BFT are still strong choices for Warspite, who was considered the queen of secondaries in her tier range before the Germans were added.

[Deviathan]

Manual secondaries no, but I can see buffing them on the Warspite and Bayern (although not over main guns).  I"m not sure it's worth it on the rest, it's like polishing a ball of poop.  You still just have a shiny ball of poop.

[Landing_Skipper]

BFT plus AFT => better secondaries and AA at the same time. Well worth doing for Warspite, Bayern & Konig. Probably worth it for AA purposes on the USN BBs at T5-6 too. 

However, I prefer the Aiming Systems Mod 1 upgrade over the secondary range upgrade (2nd slot), at least for Warspite and Konig. Warspite only has 8 rifles, but the Sigma value is 2.0. In other words they are really accurate. Build on the strength of her main battery because it's great. Konig's Sigma got reduced to 1.8 recently IIRC; however, her main guns still seem more accurate than other German battleships. Taking the secondary upgrade reduces that accuracy. Why would you do that?  

i remain convinced that part of the reason for all of the complaints about wacky dispersion on most German BBs is due to a focus on secondaries instead of the main battery. I can see a reduction in long range accuracy with a full secondary build on Bismarck. However, that ship's secondaries with manual control are so ridiculous you just have to go with it. Tirpitz, OTOH, seems to have even less accuracy than Bismarck so my personal preference is the Aiming Systems Mod 1. These are battleships after all and the main battery should be your primary weapon. 

Arizona also has a high Sigma value so I would not lessen that by taking the secondary upgrade. New Mexico's rifles are so wonky anyway I certainly want to do everything I can to reduce dispersion. Ditto for Dunkurque. 

Kongo and Fuso just don't have decent secondaries. Plus their range is their claim to fame, so again main gun accuracy is paramount. I'm not even sure that AA builds make sense for these two although I've only tried it on Kongo. 

[legoboy0401]

I would not recommend a secondary build for any BB below Tier V.(excluding Mikasa, because her actual main battery is so bad I count her secondaries as far more important and useful than her atrocious MB.) Tier V is where you get the range + less dispersion module for secondaries.

 

The extra range is nice, but less dispersion makes them less of an "all bark no bite" kind of weapon, hence why I would not recommend a secondary build without it, as without it secondaries are often derpy and super unreliable

[legoboy0401]

2 minutes ago, Landing_Skipper said:

BFT plus AFT => better secondaries and AA at the same time. Well worth doing for Warspite, Bayern & Konig. 

However, I prefer the Aiming Systems Mod 1 upgrade over the secondary range upgrade (2nd slot), at least for Warspite and Konig. Warspite only has 8 rifles, but the Sigma value is 2.0. In other words they are really accurate. Build on the strength of her main battery because it's great. Konig's Sigma got reduced to 1.8 recently IIRC; however, her main guns still seem more accurate than other German battleships. Taking the secondary upgrade reduces that accuracy. Why would you do that?

i remain convinced that part of the reason for all of the complaints about wacky dispersion on most German BBs is due to a focus on secondaries instead of the main battery. I can see a reduction in long range accuracy with a full secondary build on Bismarck. However, that ship's secondaries with manual control are so ridiculous you just have to go with it. Tirpitz, OTOH, seems to have even less accuracy than Bismarck so my personal preference is the Aiming Systems Mod 1. These are battleships after all and the main battery should be your primary weapon. 

Mikasa says hello. Mikasa is a miniture, over-exaggerated KMS BB.

[pyantoryng]

Just now, legoboy0401 said:

I would not recommend a secondary build for any BB below Tier V.(excluding Mikasa, because her actual main battery is so bad I count her secondaries as far more important and useful than her atrocious MB.) Tier V is where you get the range + less dispersion module for secondaries.

 

The extra range is nice, but less dispersion makes them less of an "all bark no bite" kind of weapon, hence why I would not recommend a secondary build without it, as without it secondaries are often derpy and super unreliable

Why would you have a dedicated captain for Mikasa unless she's the only Japanese ship in your port?

...outside of Mikasa, few works well in the secondary department, that you should save it for T7+, where manual secondaries show its full power.

[vak_]

Secondary build is viable on Warspite, for example. Just don't get manual secondaries.

[legoboy0401]

2 minutes ago, pyantoryng said:

Why would you have a dedicated captain for Mikasa unless she's the only Japanese ship in your port?

...outside of Mikasa, few works well in the secondary department, that you should save it for T7+, where manual secondaries show its full power.

Because Mikasa, and she's only a Tier II ship, and thus few would use her for captain training anyways.

 

Konig has better secondaries than most would give her credit for, Kongo's secondaries aren't bad, and well, Kaiser needs all the help she can get, as her guns are rather inconsistent.

[vak_]

4 minutes ago, pyantoryng said:

Why would you have a dedicated captain for Mikasa

 

I have a counter-question: why wouldn't you have a dedicated captain for Mikasa? 

[Estimated_Prophet]

1 hour ago, RipNuN2 said:

Manual secondaries are not worth 4 points below T7, the other secondary buffing skills and module can make sense on certain ships though.

 

This; having an early warning device your secondaries able to shoot on both sides is worth more than the tiny 15% bonus, ASM1, BFT and AFT are still important for the reload speed and range bonuses.

 

Only reason my Bayern captain has manual secondaries is because Bayern has so many, and because I use him on Bismark when I feel like bothering with tier 8.

 

35 minutes ago, legoboy0401 said:

I would not recommend a secondary build for any BB below Tier V.(excluding Mikasa, because her actual main battery is so bad I count her secondaries as far more important and useful than her atrocious MB.) Tier V is where you get the range + less dispersion module for secondaries.

 

33 minutes ago, pyantoryng said:

Why would you have a dedicated captain for Mikasa unless she's the only Japanese ship in your port?

 

Why a dedicated Mikasa captain? Because I can? Currently using a 14 point captain in Mikasa; full secondary build with everything that helps secondaries and is available at tier 2 enabled. I have another 10 point captain set up for manual secondaries, but don't like the reduced range and may wind up respecing him for something else.

 

The Manual Secondaries may only give a 15% hit bonus, but also 'because I can,' my current South Carolina captain has Manual Secondaries, and AR.

 

Recently had a 100+ secondary hits game in South Carolina, (Co-op, admittedly, to avoid accusations of seal-clubbing,) and taking Mikasa out, (again, co-op, because it's more fun,) is always glorious, especially when the destroyers die fast, or there aren't any torpies in the first place. In that situation I have zero hesitation taking on tier three battleships, and most cruisers are just targets.