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IronWolfV

Yes radar needs 1 nerf.

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Yes I am a cruiser main. This is well known, or should be known. And yes I have defended removing radar. That being said, it is completely broken in 1 regard as is hydro. What is that? The ability to see behind islands.

 

It is completely asinine. Yes this is coming from a cruiser main. The ability of both hydro and radar to see beyond land masses is absurd. 

 

Why do I feel this way? 1 main reason. RADIO WAVES DO NOT WORK LIKE THAT. I mean we have shells behave reasonably like they do out in the real world, torps behave mostly like torps, so why is it radar(radio waves) suddenly have the ability to break the laws of physics, whether they be in game or real life?

 

Yes, radar and hydro(cause solid objects like land masses tend to block the sonar wave) need to be line of sight.

 

Other than that, radar is pretty much fine, cause now a cruiser(or other ships like Missouri or Black) have to expose themselves to fire to use radar instead of being able to use it in safety.

 

And before anyone questions how many radar ships I have, I have the following ships:

 

Atlanta, Des Moines, Indianapolis, Belfast(and btw WG Belfast should be able to use either radar or smoke in 1 slot, not have a slot for both!), Chappyev.

 

So yes, radar/hydro should be nerfed as such.

 

Now have I made myself clear to the DD mafia, or do I really need to spell it out?

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From what I understand, it would require a massive recoding to make radar/hydro work on line of sight.  Right now, they extend your automatic detection range, which is why they work through islands.

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With all due respect this problem also exists with STANDARD ship detection, if an island is small enough you can detect someone on the otherside of solid land from 2 km and under. this is an innate problem with the game's coding as a whole. If you want to fix radar and sonar you'll have to fix proximity spotting entirely.

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6 minutes ago, CarefreeTongue said:

MUH HISTORICAL ACCURACY! MUH REALISM!

I don't think it has much to do with historical accuracy or realism than it does being a stupid broken mechanic.  Yeah, it is [edited] when 2 ships park behind an island and chain radar a cap.  I like playing high tier, but only in cruisers and BBs.  Destroyers aren't nearly as fun with so many radar ships.

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Just now, Ju87s said:

I don't think it has much to do with historical accuracy or realism than it does being a stupid broken mechanic.  Yeah, it is [edited] when 2 ships park behind an island and chain radar a cap.  I like playing high tier, but only in cruisers and BBs.  Destroyers aren't nearly as fun with so many radar ships.

All radar does is extend the proximity spotting system up to 8+ km, you want to fix radar you have to fix the fact that, naturally, you can spot ships through landmasses at 2 km. 

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1 minute ago, Raptor_alcor said:

With all due respect this problem also exists with STANDARD ship detection, if an island is small enough you can detect someone on the otherside of solid land from 2 km and under. this is an innate problem with the game's coding as a whole. If you want to fix radar and sonar you'll have to fix proximity spotting entirely.

Yeah well, WoWS team could stand to learn from the WoT team.

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Just now, Raptor_alcor said:

 you have to fix the fact that, naturally, you can spot ships through landmasses at 2 km. 

yes, please.  Honestly, that bothers me even more than radar.

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17 minutes ago, TalonV said:

Yes I am a cruiser main. This is well known, or should be known. And yes I have defended removing radar. That being said, it is completely broken in 1 regard as is hydro. What is that? The ability to see behind islands.

 

It is completely asinine. Yes this is coming from a cruiser main. The ability of both hydro and radar to see beyond land masses is absurd. 

 

Why do I feel this way? 1 main reason. RADIO WAVES DO NOT WORK LIKE THAT. I mean we have shells behave reasonably like they do out in the real world, torps behave mostly like torps, so why is it radar(radio waves) suddenly have the ability to break the laws of physics, whether they be in game or real life?

 

Yes, radar and hydro(cause solid objects like land masses tend to block the sonar wave) need to be line of sight.

 

Other than that, radar is pretty much fine, cause now a cruiser(or other ships like Missouri or Black) have to expose themselves to fire to use radar instead of being able to use it in safety.

 

And before anyone questions how many radar ships I have, I have the following ships:

 

Atlanta, Des Moines, Indianapolis, Belfast(and btw WG Belfast should be able to use either radar or smoke in 1 slot, not have a slot for both!), Chappyev.

 

So yes, radar/hydro should be nerfed as such.

 

Now have I made myself clear to the DD mafia, or do I really need to spell it out?

I'm a DD main and I wholeheartedly second your motion because it makes great sense to me but I doubt it will be high on the priorities list for WG. If they coded radar and hydro simply as an extension of your assured detection, as CaptainKaitoGhost said, then there will be a lot of rework to redo it.

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6 minutes ago, TalonV said:

Yeah well, WoWS team could stand to learn from the WoT team.

?????????????????   In WoT there is a 50 meter auto detect range . Considering the battle field size difference I would say it is about the same . I have detected and been detected from the other side of a building  in WoT just last night in their ranked battles that I have been playing just to build up a lot of the new extra consumables .

   :Smile_honoring:

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16 minutes ago, CaptainKaitoGhost said:

From what I understand, it would require a massive recoding to make radar/hydro work on line of sight.

 

Always been leary about this... Why does LoS work properly with a landmass, but hydro/radar can't whithout some 'massive recoding...?'

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7 minutes ago, TalonV said:

Yeah well, WoWS team could stand to learn from the WoT team.

Not exactly saying much considering both teams are floundering and the WoT team took years, well not even as stated above they also have the (see someone through solid masses) thing as well. The problem between the two is WoT doesn't have smokescreens to instill an artificial LoS blocker. 

 

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Just now, Estimated_Prophet said:

 

Always been leary about this... Why does LoS work properly with a landmass, but hydro/radar can't whithout some 'massive recoding...?'

Because it DOES NOT, the base proximity spotting system (get within 2 km you automatically see the enemy) goes clean through landmasses, and this base system is what radar/hydro is based on, just extending that auto-spot range to somethign higher. 

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23 minutes ago, CaptainKaitoGhost said:

From what I understand, it would require a massive recoding to make radar/hydro work on line of sight.  Right now, they extend your automatic detection range, which is why they work through islands.

Why?  It's not like they don't already have line of sight coded.  It's already coded for line-of-sight.  They just need to use that code as the base of the radar and hydro features and cap it's maximum range, rather than using minimum detection radius and boosting it.

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10 minutes ago, Estimated_Prophet said:

 

Always been leary about this... Why does LoS work properly with a landmass, but hydro/radar can't whithout some 'massive recoding...?'

Because it simply boosts the guaranteed detection range.

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4 minutes ago, Fishrokk said:

Why?  It's not like they don't already have line of sight coded.  It's already coded for line-of-sight.  They just need to use that code as the base of the radar and hydro features and cap it's maximum range, rather than using minimum detection radius and boosting it.

Is it actually as easy as you say? We can't be certain as we don't have access to the source code and how it ties together. 

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32 minutes ago, CaptainKaitoGhost said:

From what I understand, it would require a massive recoding to make radar/hydro work on line of sight.  Right now, they extend your automatic detection range, which is why they work through islands.

Definitely not true.  If the game already has a routine that tracks whether regular LOS is blocked by an island, it can apply the same routine to radar/hydro.  The question here is not whether it's possible from a programming/coding viewpoint,  but whether it's a good idea from a gameplay perspective.

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3 minutes ago, Raptor_alcor said:

Is it actually as easy as you say? We can't be certain as we don't have access to the source code and how it ties together. 

Stop defending WG's incompetence.

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1 minute ago, Raptor_alcor said:

Is it actually as easy as you say? We can't be certain as we don't have access to the source code and how it ties together. 

Heck ya, I'm a 4th degree blackbelt in C++, and I once spoke nothing but Fortran for a whole year in the early '80's!!!  LOL!

I'm sure I'm oversimplifying it somewhat, but my understanding of this kind of thing is that they don't really rewrite code much.  Once you have the code for a certain way of doing something in a program, it's written, and can usually be very easily repurposed for identical or similar operations elsewhere in the program.

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17 minutes ago, Raptor_alcor said:

Because it DOES NOT, the base proximity spotting system (get within 2 km you automatically see the enemy) goes clean through landmasses, and this base system is what radar/hydro is based on, just extending that auto-spot range to somethign higher. 

 

7 minutes ago, crzyhawk said:

Because it simply boosts the guaranteed detection range.

 

Then lazy coding? a bad choice for what to base it on?

 

10 minutes ago, Fishrokk said:

Why?  It's not like they don't already have line of sight coded.  It's already coded for line-of-sight.  They just need to use that code as the base of the radar and hydro features and cap it's maximum range, rather than using minimum detection radius and boosting it.

 

Exactly.

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15 minutes ago, Ju87s said:

I don't think it has much to do with historical accuracy or realism than it does being a stupid broken mechanic. 

 

Honestly. Thing is, anyone saying it shouldn't see through islands just doesn't get it. This isn't some clever well-thought out mechanic. They simply took auto-detect and increased the range. It's unlikely to change.

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Just now, Lensar said:

 

Honestly. Thing is, anyone saying it shouldn't see through islands just doesn't get it. This isn't some clever well-thought out mechanic. They simply took auto-detect and increased the range. It's unlikely to change.

I agree, it's not going to change.  Don't get me wrong I think it should be changed.  Since WG is considering expanding the ships that have radar (in its current form) we can assume radar has yet to achieved the desired effect WG is going for.  With that assumption, I'd say LoS is never going to happen.  

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I do believe radar cruisers would need to be buffed if radar no longer ignores LoS.

something like Chappayev for all radar cruisers.

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