Fiji vs Belfast, Mahan vs Sims

[Batavian1]

Now that I have ground (past tense of grind) to my the Fiji, is there any benefit in getting the Belfast? Spec-wise, they seem pretty close. I've been using AP on the British CL's for so long that I was wondering how good the Belfast HE is versus similar classed cruisers. Also radar I think would be useful, but are there better ships for radar?

 

On a similar note regarding DD's, I've ground to the Mahan. Would there be any reason to get a Sims? They (Mahan & Sims) seem very similar.

 

Thanks in advance for any comments.

[212thAttackBattalion]

personally I'll always keep the Fiji. Having the HE would make no real difference to me as i'm so used to Fiji AP. Also I absolutely love having torps on the Fiji for close in ambushing and knife fighting as well as for last stands.

The Radar is nice, but so is having heal party. would depend on play style.... but Personally I'am of the belief that the Fiji is the better bote.

 

As for the Mahan vs Sims.... I find them filling different roles. Mahan is a longer range torp/gun boat hybrid and the Sims is a knife fighter through and through.

[Psicopro]

Belfast has the most complete set of consumables in the game.  The only thing you could ask for that you don't have is a heal.

 

It is lethal against destroyers, it is very hard to defend yourself against one if he is actively hunting you because you have no real way to discourage his advance that he doesn't have a counter for.

 

It has fantastic concealment when specced and can get to under 1km of range for radar before being detected.

 

If you want a premium ship that is OP, it is the poster child.  Having smoke and radar on the same platform makes it very difficult to deal with you.  People WILL prioritize trying to kill you though, so your ability to limit your exposure to incoming fire is important.  You play RN Cruisers though, so none of this is new to you.

 

[Doomlock]

5 minutes ago, 212thAttackBattalion said:

personally I'll always keep the Fiji. Having the HE would make no real difference to me as i'm so used to Fiji AP. Also I absolutely love having torps on the Fiji for close in ambushing and knife fighting as well as for last stands.

The Radar is nice, but so is having heal party. would depend on play style.... but Personally I'am of the belief that the Fiji is the better bote.

 

As for the Mahan vs Sims.... I find them filling different roles. Mahan is a longer range torp/gun boat hybrid and the Sims is a knife fighter through and through.

 

I agree. I don't have experience with Fiji yet, but I do have Belfast.

 

Belfast trades the AP and torpedoes for HE and the ability to smoke, hydro, and radar, all at the same time. But be careful, the lack of torpedoes can get you in trouble.

 

As for Sims v Mahan. Again, 212 summed it up quite nicely. Mahan has an extra gun, and a greater amount of torpedoes and faster torpedoes. 

 

Sims gets the improved Benson guns making them have lightning quick turning and reload. She has two torpedo options, short range, but fast torpedoes that do good damage, or slow long rarange torpedoes that are better for area denial. In addition, Sims is one of the most, if not the most, maneuverable ship in the game, 2.2s rudder, sub 550m turning circle, and a top speed of 39 knots. She is the original speed boat. 

 

Hope that helps out! 

Fair winds and following seas captain! 

[Killjoy1941]

It's all down to how you play.

 

Fiji/Belfast: Do you prefer HE or AP?

Mahan/Sims: Do you prefer maneuverability and guns or staying power and torps?

 

I prefer Fiji and Sims.

[LoneStormchaser]

9 minutes ago, 212thAttackBattalion said:

personally I'll always keep the Fiji. Having the HE would make no real difference to me as i'm so used to Fiji AP. Also I absolutely love having torps on the Fiji for close in ambushing and knife fighting as well as for last stands.

The Radar is nice, but so is having heal party. would depend on play style.... but Personally I'am of the belief that the Fiji is the better bote.

Can't give an answer on the destroyers, but I like the Fiji, a lot.

I made the mistake of getting the Belfast though I haven't used it much. The only good thing I guess on having the Belfast is the training of Capt's.

[Panzer1113]

Belfast is just plain fun, have the Minotaur (sold the Fiji long ago, but just bought back the Leander for ranked).  I have not seen a ship carry like the Belfast can, and have turned a battle many times....  

Have a Sims, also have a Gearing (sold Mahan), fun, nimble, do not play it much but usually have good outcomes - really use it as a support boat, cap and smoke for team, poor Alfa strike, use torps for areas denial, but like Russian boat get most damage from pew,pew,pew

 

[KamiSamurai]

I played the Belfast a lot when it came out and it was fun each and every time. I have to say the Fiji is definitely a ship that I find myself playing more and more. It is the one ship that I wished I would have played during the ranked season =(. Both Fiji and Belfast are great and the Sims is better than the Mahan.

[QuantumEntropy]

Belfast > Fiji ,  More complete ship and in a 1 v 1 Belfast will win if same skill players.Fiji is not bad but having HE vs angled ships is sure nice + the dot from the fires makes a lot of differance.

Mahan = Sims , it's hard to say for sure, sims has less detection but less guns as well. they are close toghether but i'd give it for mahan cause more guns.Sims is better for the competitive plan of the game while mahan is better for pvp.

 

Personal opinion

[Battlecruiser_Siegfried]

Belfast is less situational than Fiji, and thus slightly better in most players' hands. However, a well-played Fiji is stronger than Belfast, IMO.

[vonKaiser]

Fiji and Belfast are both extremely capable ships.  The major difference is the alpha strike capability of the ship versus enemy ships that rush your smoke. 

For instance, sitting in smoke in Belfast, lobbing HE and AP around.  You don't have to worry about DD's much due to the hydro/radar combo and the small health pool of them.  Even many Cruisers will feel the hurt should they rush your smoke screen, you'll make them pay.  Where your disadvantage lies is when BB's near full health or full health cruisers with a large health pool begin to rush you.  You're options are limited because your HE will take time to burn them down and rushing the smoke presents a bow on angle where the AP and citadel shots you'll need to dissuade them from coming closer aren't going to be readily available. Full health BB or a torp armed cruisers get's tired of the smoke screen launching shells and begins to rush?  Well your only option at that point is to pretty much run away.

Now.  Take the Fiji, same scenario, sitting in the smoke.  you don't have HE to burn down targets so bow on rush is a problem.  you don't have radar so you've got to be a little more wary about where enemy DD's are and torp armed cruisers.  However the AP is very effective against the DD due to the different timers on British AP and still semi-effective against cruiser and BB super structures.  Lastly, Fiji has torps.  Single tube launch so you can stack them all right into the nose of the BB rushing your smoke, no torpedo belt in this area either.  So that deterrent can make a difference in some situations. 

[ForgMaxtor]

1 hour ago, Batavian1 said:

On a similar note regarding DD's, I've ground to the Mahan. Would there be any reason to get a Sims? They (Mahan & Sims) seem very similar.

 

I can't speak to Belfast vs.  Fiji as I don't own the former, but Sims is one of my most-played boats and I did grind through Mahan so I can speak to this.

While they may seem similar on the surface, Sims and Mahan actually play pretty differently.  Sims is a knife-fighting specialist.  Her effective close-range gun firepower is unparalleled at her tier.  And Sims is one of the most maneuverable ships in the game when you account for all stats (speed, rudder, and turn circle).  The Sims can also give CVs fits -- she's very hard to line up drops on, has access to Defensive Fire, and her AA DPS is good enough that idling a squadron over her for too long will result in lost planes.  The big trade-off for all of this is that Sims' has tier 5 torps on a tier 7 boat -- you get the option of either (a) short range with meh damage and speed or (b) good range with crappy damage and speed.  This said, she does have a pretty good reload on her torps so at least you can spam out a lot of them over the course of a match.

Mahan, on the other hand, is more of a "second one in" boat -- she has decent maneuverability, but not up to the Sims's level, being several knots slower and having a wider turn circle.   Mahan's gun rotation is good, but she doesn't have the pirouetting ballerina turrets of the Sims, so especially at close range she can lose gun solution if she turns hard.  And Mahan has inferior concealment; at 7.9km base,  hers is the worst of any of the T7 DDs.  Mahan also doesn't have the Sims' access to Defensive Fire or good AA DPS *unless* you mount the C hull, which means giving up a Main Battery gun.  As a trade off, she gets pretty good torps -- good range, OK speed and damage, and 4 more tubes (though still only 8 off any given side at once due to the Wing-Center-Wing setup).

So Sims is a close-in cap brawler specialist --  she's at her best when she can force isolated engagements with enemy DDs early in the match, and sink them or at least drive them off the cap(s) before the rest of the enemy team has time to react.  If Sims succeeds in neutralizing the enemy DDs, then she can spend the rest of the match just generally being an annoying little pest -- spotting, laying smoke, harassing bigger ships with torps and guns.  Mahan favors a slightly more cautious playstyle.  Ideally, Mahan wants to have friendly planes or higher concealment DD ahead of her, so she can see where the enemy DDs are, and then decide whether to avoid DD engagement and torp bigger ships from concealment, or move up to engage enemy DD(s) if the conditions are favorable.

One thing they do have in common is the amazing USN DD smokes, which are good for personal use but really shine when you've got teammate(s) who are smart enough to take advantage of the smoke walls you lay down; with speed boost on, Sims can lay a smoke wall nearly across the full diameter of a cap circle.

[Batavian1]

Great comments guys. Learned a lot.

1 hour ago, Psicopro said:

Bf you want a premium ship that is OP, it is the poster child.  Having smoke and radar on the same platform makes it very difficult to deal with you.  People WILL prioritize trying to kill you though, so your ability to limit your exposure to incoming fire is important.  You play RN Cruisers though, so none of this is new to you.

 

Funny thing Psicopro, when I am gaming in Random, and I see an Atlanta on the other team, the first thing I say to my teammates is "kill the Atlanta!". Most of my teammates again. In other words, some ships are just too dangerous/over-powered, that they get targeted by the opposing team for that very reason. If this is the case with the Belfast, I might re-consider.

 

17 minutes ago, ForgMaxtor said:

 

I can't speak to Belfast vs.  Fiji as I don't own the former, but Sims is one of my most-played boats and I did grind through Mahan so I can speak to this.

While they may seem similar on the surface, Sims and Mahan actually play pretty differently.  Sims is a knife-fighting specialist.  Her effective close-range gun firepower is unparalleled at her tier.  And Sims is one of the most maneuverable ships in the game when you account for all stats (speed, rudder, and turn circle).  The Sims can also give CVs fits -- she's very hard to line up drops on, has access to Defensive Fire, and her AA DPS is good enough that idling a squadron over her for too long will result in lost planes.  The big trade-off for all of this is that Sims' has tier 5 torps on a tier 7 boat -- you get the option of either (a) short range with meh damage and speed or (b) good range with crappy damage and speed.  This said, she does have a pretty good reload on her torps so at least you can spam out a lot of them over the course of a match.

Mahan, on the other hand, is more of a "second one in" boat -- she has decent maneuverability, but not up to the Sims's level, being several knots slower and having a wider turn circle.   Mahan's gun rotation is good, but she doesn't have the pirouetting ballerina turrets of the Sims, so especially at close range she can lose gun solution if she turns hard.  And Mahan has inferior concealment; at 7.9km base,  hers is the worst of any of the T7 DDs.  Mahan also doesn't have the Sims' access to Defensive Fire or good AA DPS *unless* you mount the C hull, which means giving up a Main Battery gun.  As a trade off, she gets pretty good torps -- good range, OK speed and damage, and 4 more tubes (though still only 8 off any given side at once due to the Wing-Center-Wing setup).

So Sims is a close-in cap brawler specialist --  she's at her best when she can force isolated engagements with enemy DDs early in the match, and sink them or at least drive them off the cap(s) before the rest of the enemy team has time to react.  If Sims succeeds in neutralizing the enemy DDs, then she can spend the rest of the match just generally being an annoying little pest -- spotting, laying smoke, harassing bigger ships with torps and guns.  Mahan favors a slightly more cautious playstyle.  Ideally, Mahan wants to have friendly planes or higher concealment DD ahead of her, so she can see where the enemy DDs are, and then decide whether to avoid DD engagement and torp bigger ships from concealment, or move up to engage enemy DD(s) if the conditions are favorable.

One thing they do have in common is the amazing USN DD smokes, which are good for personal use but really shine when you've got teammate(s) who are smart enough to take advantage of the smoke walls you lay down; with speed boost on, Sims can lay a smoke wall nearly across the full diameter of a cap circle.

Great tips on the Mahan and Sims. I always felt Mahan was a knife fighter but I can see Sims is more so. I think the Mahan is the first US destroyer that has a torp range greater than detection level. Maybe that is how I should look at the difference.

[Slimeball91]

Don't forget to factor in the XP/credits and captain trainer you get in a premium ship.  That can make a good premium ship more attractive.

[Psicopro]

5 minutes ago, Batavian1 said:

Great comments guys. Learned a lot.

Funny thing Psicopro, when I am gaming in Random, and I see an Atlanta on the other team, the first thing I say to my teammates is "kill the Atlanta!". Most of my teammates again. In other words, some ships are just too dangerous/over-powered, that they get targeted by the opposing team for that very reason. If this is the case with the Belfast, I might re-consider.

 

Difference is the Atlanta is dangerous only when safe behind the island, can be detected from further out than the Belfast, and it doesn't have the built in concealment smoke offers.  Both give enemy BB captains happy happy joy joy feelings when AP hits the citadel.  

[Psicopro]

Sims has slow but incredibly hard to spot torps.  They sneak up on people who aren't paying attention.  If someone is chasing you those torps are dangerous because they are moving into them and won't see them till they are almost on top of the target.

 

Also, it's agility is second to none.  

[AnimaL21]

Thanks for posting all the differences thus far.  

I love playing nicholas, meh with farragut, and i'd go as far as saying I hate mahan.  She just feels overly large and cumbersome to use even though you get the torps, and that concealment, ugh.  

As someone that currently hates mahan for those reasons, will i likely hate sims or are they different enough?  

Kinda hoping sims plays a little more like nich and less like mahan?

 

Hoping sims is on sale next weekend.  

[HazeGrayUnderway]

Fiji vs Belfast?  Both are good boats but Belfast IMO is better in the utility department.

Fiji

+ Cruiser Repair Party!

+ Torpedoes, very nice especially if someone wants to charge your smoke.

+ RN CL AP that is great in causing damage to anyone showing their sides;  Devastating to DDs.

+ RN CL smoke!

- RN CL AP completely falters when the target is sharply angled or bow on, I can go bow on to RN CL AP fire with another Cruiser or BB and ignore their shots altogether while I attack someone else.  The damage they do is irrelevant in such profiles.

- With AP only attacks, cannot land fires.  Only DOT capability is from Secondaries if someone gets that close, or from torpedoes landing floods.

- Mediocre concealment range

- Mediocre AA

Belfast

+ HE & AP shell selection, a combo of IFHE, DE makes her very dangerous to any threat, regardless of their angling.

+ Unlike tech tree RN CLs, she can land Fires to cause havoc on targets with their Damage Control consumables and HP.

+ At the short ranges a Belfast can find herself in, her AP at such engagements is more than enough to get the job done.

+ If using a Stealth Build, has a RIDICULOUSLY GOOD concealment range.  Belfast on paper has 11.34km surface detection range, Fiji is barely worse at 11.52.  Both can fit Concealment Expert.  However, Belfast is special.  She has the upgrade slot that only Tier VIII+ ships access so she can equip CSM1 to improve her concealment range even more.  Belfast is one of the stealthiest TIer VII+ Cruisers in the game.  If she's top tier, she will be a massive problem to DDs, she'll also easily outspot most Cruisers if she is top tier.

+ Radar AND Hydro at the same time!  Combine that with her amazing stealth capability!

+ Belfast has the foundation for a respectable AA build.  This is what I did with AAGM2 slotted, no BFT, no AFT.

Spoiler

- No torpedoes, if a Belfast isn't careful on positioning and having help nearby, people can and will rush her smoke because they know she has no torpedoes.  Honestly, this is Belfast's greatest weakness.

- No Repair Party like Fiji!

- Belfast is such a good ship that you will be Public Enemy No.1 in the enemy team's eyes.  If they see you, detect you, you're a marked man to die ASAP.  Fiji herself is an amazing ship but she does not get that Belfast recognition and priority to be attacked.

 

I kept Fiji despite also having Belfast.  Both are different in what they do.  I have a buddy that loves Belfast so much, is very good with her, that he will pick Belfast even if the rest of us get proper Tier VIII ships.  Tier VII Belfast in a Tier X match seamlessly fits in for him and does great with it still.  I had a reply to a thread regarding the viability of Hiryu in last Tier VII Ranked.  I put up a picture on how the Tier VII ships were doing that season and close to the end, Belfast was one of the best performers but Fiji quietly did very well in ranked.  Everyone whined about Belfast but Fiji was not too far away in performance.

[MrDeaf]

Sims is fast and one of the most agile DD in the game.
Mahan is on the slower side and not very agile.

Sims is the better pick for about 90% of the engagements, especially because the captain is interchangeable with Benson and Gearing.

Belfast and Fiji play somewhat differently from each other.

[HazeGrayUnderway]

IMO, Mahan is easier to hit than Sims.  Mahan is bulky a.f.

[crzyhawk]

IMO, Belfast is a flat out better ship than the Fiji is.  It's simply got more tools in its box, and that flexibility puts it over the edge.  Fiji is a fine ship, it's just simply not as good as Belfast in most situations.  For the DD's I prefer the Sims for her maneuverability.  I enjoy gunfighting DD's at point blank range, and Sims excels at that.  Mahan is good, probably a more balanced ship over all, but for my playstyle, Sims rocks.

[Korval_BB55]

My Belfast has trained up 5 15 point British captains for me.  I like her.  I love Fiji too.  What others have said earlier about HE & Radar vs AP & Torps applies.  People will try to charge my Belfast, but they're less eager to charge the Fiji.

(I have both and when divisioning with others, will alternate the two to maximize fun.)

Sims vs Mahan, I like both, but I felt more effective with Mahan, because the torpedoes were actually useful.  Never had luck with the water mines on Sims, and the only time I had any luck with the short range torps was when an unobservant NC cruised around an island I was hiding behind and got a close range surprise.  Tried using Sims as a captain trainer, but even when I could get wins, I struggled to do enough damage, even via invisifire, to make the XP gain worth it.  Blyska makes me much happier.  For that matter, so does Benson.

If I only had enough money to buy one, I would choose Belfast, she's just that much fun.

[wadavid]

Belfast and Fiji are equally competent, in my opinion.

Mahan or Sims? If I had to choose one or the other or it would be... Leningrad. 

[stugalize]

Yeah Belfast and Fiji are equal, if you're grinding British line though keep the Fiji, the things that make a Belfast OP like IFE and DE won't be on your captain, so you're just would run a gimp'd Belfast.

Both do suffer from a lack of late game carry ability as in their smoke they are dependent on other people spotting for them, and in open water they are easy prey.

[Hurlbut]

On 6/22/2017 at 10:22 AM, Psicopro said:

 

Difference is the Atlanta is dangerous only when safe behind the island, can be detected from further out than the Belfast, and it doesn't have the built in concealment smoke offers.  Both give enemy BB captains happy happy joy joy feelings when AP hits the citadel.  

4

Flint.