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what am I doing wrong?

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I'm 0-5 in my Yorck tonight.  I finished 2nd, 2nd, 7th, 1st, and 3rd on the losing team in my matches.  Aside from the 3rd game, I played fairly well in each round.  I'd normally chalk it up to a run of bad luck - you're going to have streaks where you lose five in a row and you're going to have streaks where you win five in a row. 

The problem is that my luck is not just confined to a bad night here or there.  In the last 242 games I've played, I've won 44.63% of the time.  My WTR stayed about the same at 1231.  I'm scratching my head at this.  I'm playing no worse than I did when my win rate was 53-54% (what you'd expect for a "great" player according to WTR - it was light blue all around), yet I'm consistently losing the majority of games. After 242 games, the probability of of having a win rate 11% below my average is very very small. 

I have poured over my stats and can see that I seem to lose more in Tier 9 and 10 matches (I'm relatively new to higher tiers).  My WTR for my higher ship tiers is somewhat lower than in tiers 6-8, but not significantly so.  I am at a loss to explain why I'm always one of the top players on the losing team.  At this point I figure that MM hates me. 

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Ive come to realize as an average player, of you want to win, you often have to sacrifice stats for the betterment of the team. Often you won't lay down enough damage to carry, so you have to carry in other ways,  such as match meta. Example, I had piss poor damage in my Cleveland today but killed 30 planes ultimately helping win the match.

 

Edit: also I too am normally top of the losing team,  but how do you do when on the winning team? I often place between 2-6. If you are similar it just means exactly what your stats say, you are above average. 

Edited by Abo89

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27 minutes ago, Abo89 said:

I've come to realize as an average player, of you want to win, you often have to sacrifice stats for the betterment of the team.

 

This... ^

 

How many times have I been hammered for most of my destroyers hp early, had cruddy damage; but captured caps and finished off cripples late game to help secure a win?

 

Usually wind up way down on the score list; but the win mattters more.

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What are you doing wrong?

 

1. Division. That is the number 1 thing you can do for your win rate. Look me up if I am online, don't be shy. I am solid though not unicum. A division mate can help explain what you are doing wrong, and divisioning makes games twice as fun.

2. Stop playing cruisers. On the whole cruisers have lower carry power than other ships and less ability to affect outcomes. It is more difficult to cap, to hold a flank on your own, to practice area denial, to enter a cap and kill four ships and then cap, or to stay alive and win a close match on points (you can do it, I've done it, but it is harder). It;s really hard to play a cruiser well. Switch to DDs and BBs, which have greater ability to influence game outcomes.

3. Practice a lot in DDs until you have a deep understand of situational mechanics and know when that golden moment arrives when you must push, when you must sneak the cap, when you must return to your own cap. Nothing teaches situational awareness like DD play, since a DD is a like a rabbit crossing a meadow while a hawk is watching.

4. Discipline yourself to do less damage and stay alive longer for the sake of the team. The first rule of the unicum manual is 'don't die'. It is better to live humbly for the team than to die gloriously and early. 

5. Yorck itself is not much of a carrybote. Your torps are too short range, reload too slow, health pool too small. 

Edited by Taichunger
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1 hour ago, Abo89 said:

 Example, I had piss poor damage in my Cleveland today but killed 30 planes ultimately helping win the match.

It comes down to when and where you do it though.

I had a Gneisenau and Aoba sail all the way to the border of the map to protect their Ryujo from my bombers.

I just went and butchered the remaining ships instead, since the Ryujo had lost it's fighter already anyway, so any bombers she tried to launch were immediately intercepted.

Meanwhile both Gneisenau and Aoba stayed close to her, which I assume was due to one of my DB squads moving in and out of their viewrange...

AA coverage is important, very much so, but if it's neglecting potential damage it's not as helpful as it could be, especially against an situational aware CV player.

Also, this is not aimed at you but towards the players that don't know better, the best place to intercept bombers is between them at the target, favourable a few kms in front of their target, not right next to or behind it.

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1 hour ago, Estimated_Prophet said:

 

This... ^

 

How many times have I been hammered for most of my destroyers hp early, had cruddy damage; but captured caps and finished off cripples late game to help secure a win?

 

Usually wind up way down on the score list; but the win mattters more.

I understand where you guys are coming from, but I'm not sure if I agree.  Getting caps isn't just a selfless act for the benefit of the greater good - it also gives you a crap ton of points.  Likewise, going down early in a blaze of glory not only screws you on points, but it screws your team on winning.  WG seems like they've tried to reward good teamwork with more points.  Rarely do I find there's a choice to make between playing for the team and playing for my individual score.  If there is, I always go for the win because the win bonus usually outweighs the individual stat increase (i.e. doubling back to base to protect against a DD I suspect is going to sneak-cap while our team moves into their base).

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27 minutes ago, Taichunger said:

What are you doing wrong?

 

1. Division. That is the number 1 thing you can do for your win rate. Look me up if I am online, don't be shy. I am solid though not unicum. A division mate can help explain what you are doing wrong, and divisioning makes games twice as fun.

2. Stop playing cruisers. On the whole cruisers have lower carry power than other ships and less ability to affect outcomes. It is more difficult to cap, to hold a flank on your own, to practice area denial, to enter a cap and kill four ships and then cap, or to stay alive and win a close match on points (you can do it, I've done it, but it is harder). It;s really hard to play a cruiser well. Switch to DDs and BBs, which have greater ability to influence game outcomes.

3. Practice a lot in DDs until you have a deep understand of situational mechanics and know when that golden moment arrives when you must push, when you must sneak the cap, when you must return to your own cap. Nothing teaches situational awareness like DD play, since a DD is a like a rabbit crossing a meadow while a hawk is watching.

4. Discipline yourself to do less damage and stay alive longer for the sake of the team. The first rule of the unicum manual is 'don't die'. It is better to live humbly for the team than to die gloriously and early. 

5. Yorck itself is not much of a carrybote. Your torps are too short range, reload too slow, health pool too small. 

1.  Yeah I've never played a division game, so I should probably start.  I guess the higher tier you go, the more essential it is.  At least I'll have someone to commiserate with when we're 1 and 2 on the losing team.

2. I don't play cruisers above tier 7.  I never thought about it, but you're right about less of an ability to affect the outcome.  Thinking about all the times I've carried for the win, it's almost always been in a DD or BB (particularly the Scharnhorst).

3. Yes.  DD play is the most "intense" in that it requires a lot of focus and SA.

4. I know.  But I will add that you want to make sure you're inflicting damage when someone else is tanking for you.  I get very upset with myself when I'm staying alive but also not dealing much damage. 

5. Agreed again.  It's mostly for sitting at max range and lobbing HE at BBs and CAs.  I use the torps maybe once every 5 or 6 rounds.  You can't get in close with a Yorck or you will get deleted.

Edited by prevans

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I would suggest you not let your stats get too far into your head.  Play your game, play to win, and always try to be smart.  The rest will take care of itself.

I know some people play primarily with their stats and WR in mind.  They won't play without a division because it might hurt their stats.  Hey, play however you want and for whatever reasons you want, but I don't get it.

When you play to have fun and succeed, you might be surprised how good your stats can be.  WR can be a bugger at times (going through a red cycle, myself), but your long term WR should be decent.

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5 hours ago, prevans said:

 

5. Agreed again.  It's mostly for sitting at max range and lobbing HE at BBs and CAs.  I use the torps maybe once every 5 or 6 rounds.  You can't get in close with a Yorck or you will get deleted.

 

Yorck is nasty to DDs though. In tighter quarters, where half the enemy team can't see you when you're lit, your combination of decent reload high-velocity 8" HE, combined with German hydro and a spotter plane, you can almost delete them pretty easily.

 

I spam HE from range a lot too, but drop everything to go after DDs, which ARE carrybotes. Maybe that makes the difference.

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I have also found that certain ships in this game are better at carrying than other ships.  Although I had a 59 per cent winrate in my Yorck with more than 10k additional damage compared to the server average, I dont think it has true carrying capacity.  It is more of a victoy enabler (killing dds, heaping fires onto enemy battleships, torping striken lonely bbs late game) rather than direct and cap ships like Fiji, or battleships like Gneisenau which can do most jobs well - including frontline duty. 

 

So, in some respects, if you're not in a carry ship then it is really hard to directly improve your winrate.  BUt you can still do well on the other stats (damage, XP) and you can still be personally improving as a player.  In the long run, those things are more important imo.  

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Top scores on a team are not always related to the impact made on a match. Try to focus more on what the ship you are taking into any given battle does and how it adds to the team you are playing with to help control caps, defend high point value ships on your own team and prioritize targets on the enemy side. Sometimes that can mean sacrificing yourself, or minimizing the damage you put out if it benefits the team towards the goal of winning the game. At T9 and T10 you are dealing with a whole different game meta and being successful at solo gets even more difficult. If you are seeing worse performance, you may want to consider going back to basics and focusing on overall play improvement first before you worry about how to perform in high tiers.

 

Also, WTR is a benchmark of your performance relative to other players across the ships you are playing. Some ships have very low performance averages and will make your WTR seem much higher vs. others so try to separate that from why you win or lose in matches. 

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58 minutes ago, UltimateNewbie said:

I have also found that certain ships in this game are better at carrying than other ships.  Although I had a 59 per cent winrate in my Yorck with more than 10k additional damage compared to the server average, I dont think it has true carrying capacity.  It is more of a victory enabler (killing DDs.....

 

That's key IMO. As opposed to merely helping with victory through attrition, killing DDs directly removes enemy carry potential from the match. (although often at the cost of high damage totals)

Edited by Skpstr
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Generally speaking I am not one to be in a position to give advice on these matters, but if you are running into the same result over and over and over, maybe you should try something different?  Different ship..different tactic...Div up with someone... etc.    Your entire post was obsessing over stats, but not once did you mention how you were playing your ship.  Sure you can freak over stats if you want and dive into them to look for the solution, but maybe the solution lies in what you are doing in the game and not what the numbers say after...   Just a though.   I know that when I hit a run and just seem to get dogged every game I jump ships/tiers for a few to reset my head and then come back to the original ship. 

Edited by CaptGodzillaPig

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Stats are for lessons learned and as a measuring stick of what you can do to improve.  Not every ship is created equal in it's ability and not every player is suited to each ship equally.  Work on what you could have done to improve your own performance.  You won't win them all, even the best at this game with all of the division advantages still lose 30% of the time.  Top players tend to group up so even with the deck stacked in their favor, nothing is certain.

 

The highers tiers are less forgiving of mistakes, ships can punish them a lot easier and at a lot further range than lower tiers.  You are experiencing an above average number of people learning that all at once, you simply need to learn to succeed in spite of it.  Still working on that myself, but it's no different for you than for anyone else.  

 

Also, if you do notice one or more players that are worth helping, it does make sense to make team oriented plays to keep those players in the game as long as possible.  So air cover and smoke and any other assistance should be given providing should help turn the tide of battle.  Let the people making boneheaded decisions die, more often than not trying to save these players from certain doom has only gotten myself killed in the process.

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It's hardto say from your Warships.Today stats, but it might be related to not capping or defending. Trying to find out.

 

Your numbers are pretty good except for Win Rate, and Survival is good against the average but could be a bit better. Surviving to the final minutes generslly helps WR.

 

While I look try and Div up. It helps immensley. FOG always has Divs going, and so does Salt and Sour. Look all 3 up and consider joining or at least joining in on TS.

 

I play a ton but am moving atm, so my access is limited until this weekend.

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7 hours ago, Madwolf05 said:

Your numbers are pretty good except for Win Rate, and Survival is good against the average but could be a bit better. Surviving to the final minutes generslly helps WR.

I think that's mostly because of the Scharnhorst.  I usually manage to go out in a blaze of glory - win or lose - and hopefully take a few CLs down with me.

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Changes I've made to really help my WR

 

So the Changes:

1. DO NOT STRAY ALONE.

    Though this one sounds obvious, there were many times that I felt compelled to help that one ship going to A by itself. You are not doing yourself or your team any favors. The only time you should ever remotely consider this is if you are in a low concealment DD. Even then, its roughly a bad idea at best.

 

2. KNOW WHERE TO POSITION YOURSELF IN THE FLEET.

     Omg how many times did I die in the Cleveland in the first 2 minutes because I was "AA Screening" for my team. This is great overall. AA screening in an AA cruiser is your job, but in a Cruiser you cant be the first to be seen. You will die. With that said, different ships should be in different positions in the fleet. DD do need to be somewhat out front, Cruisers should be close to BBs, at least until after the match start phase is over, and BBs should be at least trying to damage screen for their cruisers. Granted these are all A) rule of thumb and B) normally only apply to the initial minutes of the match.

 

3. UNLESS THERE IS A LEGIT REASON, DO NOT BE AGGRESSIVE TILL MID MATCH

     This has probably been the number one thing that has brought me more success than anything else. I am a DD player, so I'm used to being aggressive throughout the match. You can somewhat get away with that playing DDs, but not other classes. Cruisers and Battle ships should take arguably the first 5 minutes to set up and feel out how the match is going based on where the enemy is and where their allies are going. Being opportunistically aggressive at first affords you two things. One, it allows you to still do some damage during the opening stages of the game, while more importantly preserving your health pool for later stages of the game. What this DOES NOT MEAN is avoid all damage in the beginning of the match. You still need to be contributing at the objectives and still need to with your team, not sniping. The best way to accomplish this ties back into my previous points about positioning with your fleet and not being alone to be singled out. I CAN NOT STRESS HOW IMPORTANT THIS POINT IS.

 

4. LASTLY KNOW YOUR ROLE AND STRENGTH OF YOUR SHIP.

     This is two-fold. What is the role of your ship? Generally DDs are meant to scout, but you have gun-boat DDs such as USN, RU and sometimes KSM, but you also have torp boats like the IJN DDs and occasionally the KSM as well. There are cruisers meant to defend against air attacks, particularly the USN types, as well as hunt down DDs, again like the USN and to some extent all cruisers. Other cruisers are arguably best suited against other cruisers such as the IJN and RU lines. Chances are if you are casual like me, you dont know the statistics of every ship you will face like many of the more active members. Its ok not to know all those stats, but everyone should at least make the effort of understanding mechanics of the game and national flavor.

 

5. THERE ARE TIMES TO STRATEGICALLY YOLO

     As been discussed in the thread, its important when to know to put it all on the line. Sometimes, when the match is close and there is only a ship or two on each team, you need to weigh the options of success based on team score and time left. If there is 3 minutes left and you are leading by 100 pts while controlling a few objectives, guess what? Most likely you only need to survive the match to win. Down 30 pts with a few minutes left? Tread carefully and its probably best to go after objectives and not try to engage the enemy, if it can be avoided. Down 100 pts with a few minutes to go? Guess what? Yea you are in a Cruiser, but you may have to go after that BB that only has 10k health left. Killing him is that 100 pt swing you need. Especially if you are behind by a wide margin with only a few minutes left...its ok to get very agressive and not be afraid of doing things your ship may not be great at, such as a BB shooting at that DD that popped up for a moment.

 

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Constant introspection is a key factor.  After every loss (and win, for that matter), take measure of  your performance.  Not just the score, but look into how your actions contributed to the loss or win.  What worked.  What didn't work.  Sometimes it takes many games to figure out the best way a particular ship contributes to a match, even more so depending on how it's tiered in the MM.  Some ships take longer to figure out than others.   And sometimes, due to a host of factors (to include base aptitude in a class as well as play style) a particular ship just doesn't work out.

 

I remember when I first started playing, I had many moments of "Hmmh, that didn't work very well".  I still have those moments, but not as many as when I first started.

 

Also keep in mind you can do everything correctly.  Perform flawlessly...and still lose.  That's the breaks.

 

It can take well over a 100 games in a ship before you get the feel of what to do.  And if you've been doing it wrong, it will take another 100 or so games to make up for it. 

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