Scenario Idea

[Creepershark77]

The idea I had for this scenario is the escort of convoy PQ 17 from the UK and into Russia while avoiding enemy ships trying to sink the convoy. This is all similar to the Transylvania event that Wargaming did for Halloween last year but with several large differences between the two, which I will go into further detail down below:

 

Convoy

Spoiler

The convoy is basically like the Transylvania, in that you have to get it from point A to point B, but this time the escort is composed of multiple merchant ships, about 6 of them, but instead of having to escort them individually, they all share the same escort circle, meaning that they all move in unison when a player enters the circle that the convoy is inside of. However, these merchant ships don't have much health, about 10,000 each and they have an above water citadel, because of all the weaponry they're carrying below deck, so all it'll take to sink one of them is a citadel hit from the main guns of a battleship, or a torpedo hit from an enemy destroyer, so be careful with these ships when facing battleships or destroyers, because it won't take much for either of these ship types to sink a merchant ship, not to mention that the trip towards the final destination is significantly longer than the Halloween Special (with the dimensions of the map being about 16x144 km in size, which is the same area as the largest maps in the game), because the destination is in Russia, and you have to go past Norway in order to get there in the first place, not to mention the enemy fleet located there that's trying to stop you.

The Enemy

Spoiler

In the Halloween event, the only enemy ships that you ever had to face were Battleships and fort emplacements, but this time it's going to be a lot more challenging. While there are going to be no fort emplacements this time around, players will be having to deal with a variety of cruisers, battleships and destroyers, with the difficulty rising the closer the convoy gets to its destination. The first section of the escort haves you dealing with Tier IV ships, which won't be too much of a problem for ships of Tiers V and VI so it shouldn't be too much of a problem there, but the next section has Tier V ships instead, so there's going to be more of a challenge than in the last section, but if the team is mostly Tier VI it shouldn't be that much of a threat in the long run. At the third section however, is when the enemy starts sending in Tier VI ships instead, so now the enemy is theoretically on equal footing with the player team so watch out for that, but the fourth section is when things REALLY get hit into high gear, with ships of Tier VII! So have fun trying to stop a Scharnhorst or a Gneisenau from getting close enough to make a torpedo run on the convoy, because those ships are fast! And just when you reach the final stretch of the mission, with the Russian port in sight, a surprise wave of Tier VIII ships attacks directly in front of the convoy, standing in your way from completing the mission, and while the enemy ships are always randomized, there will be always a Tirpitz and an Admiral Hipper in this final wave. (Because history!) Now it may seem like an understandable idea to try and prevent the enemy from getting too close to the convoy by having some ships go and charge ahead in order to create a buffer zone between the enemy and the convoy, but then there are the ambushes...

Ambush!

Spoiler

This, in my opinion, is the biggest difference between the Halloween event and the mission here to escort convoy PQ 17, ambushes. An ambush is when there is an unexpected attack that happens right on top of the convoy, and can cause some serious damage if the escorting ships are caught off-guard. There are mainly 2 types of ambushes in this mode, with the first one being airborne attacks which can happen randomly within each section, as the AI will randomly decide to send squadrons of torpedo and dive bombers to attack the merchant ships, as well as some fighters to deal with any of the fighter aircraft from the friendly carrier on the player's team. There will be at least one of these attacks per section and the Tier of aircraft will mount accordingly to the current section, so you'll see aircraft squadrons from Tiers IV to VIII, maybe even Tier IX squadrons of the Saipan. The worst part about it is that the aircraft will make a bee line straight for the merchant ships, and any surviving squadrons will return in the next ambush, fully resupplied with aircraft and ammo, meaning that you'll have to deal with one or more extra squadrons the next time around than if you completely destroyed all the squadrons in the last attack instead of having some survivors as a result, not to mention that they don't originate from an enemy carrier, as they come from an airbase that is off the map, so there is no stopping them from coming. While the random air attacks are a threat, you should be able to deal with them if you bring in a bunch of AA cruisers and a carrier, which leads into the other type of ambush in this scenario; U-boats. U-boats are probably the biggest threat that you have to deal with, because you can't see them until they attack, are within the minimum spotting range, or they are within range of a ship's active hydro, and they will always appear surfaced when spotted, because otherwise they'll be extremely annoying to hit, and they fire only one destroyer torpedo, meaning that it only takes one submarine to sink a merchant ship, but they don't have much health, only about 4,000 or so, meaning that it'll only take a little bit of cruiser or destroyer HE to sink one of these things, but they are hard to spot, before they attack since they will always keep their distance at about 3 km, from the nearest player ship and they can see through smoke thanks to their sonar. U-boat ambushes are a lot more choreographed, as they don't appear out of nowhere, as there is always a set amount of about 20 to 30 of them patrolling the entire map, and if one of them spots the convoy, that submarine will alert the BdU, (the submarine commander) which will order 6 other submarines to set an ambush further ahead of the convoy's path while the submarine that spotted the convoy will continue to shadow it until the convoy reaches the trap, with these submarines being chosen by how close they are to the ambush location. This behavior is usually found in the german sub tactic known as wolfpacks, so if you see a U-boat that appears to have just spotted you, destroy it immediately, because chances are that it hasn't even contacted the BdU yet and destroying it will prevent an ambush from occurring, but if you spot one that appears to be shadowing the entire escort force, it won't matter as much if you destroy it or not, because it already alerted the commander and there's going to be an ambush further ahead. Also, it is impossible to destroy all of the submarines in the map, because as soon as you destroy one, another one will spawn in and take its place. The other thing to note is that the ambush will only be triggered when the merchant ships are within firing range of the U-boats that are participating in the trap, so they won't trigger their torpedoes prematurely as a result. While ambushes cannot be predicted so easily, there is nothing to prevent both types of ambushes happening at the same time, if you're unlucky enough for that to happen. However, there is one scripted event that will happen when it comes to ambushes, if the convoy is left unescorted for too long (lets say about a minute), then a larger than normal ambush will occur consisting of both aircraft and u-boats, which will most definitely lead to the entire convoy being sunk and the mission ending up as a failure. This unusual attack is a result of the enemy taking advantage of the players mistake of leaving the convoy defenseless to deal with another threat, just like what the germans did when the convoy was abandoned by their escorts and told to scatter, leaving them defenseless, it also serves as a way of saying, "This is what you get for abandoning the convoy for too long, immediate failure!"

Secondary Missions

Spoiler

1. Have at least 3 merchant ships reach the port.
2. The convoy reaches the port without stopping.
3. Spot and destroy 10 enemy submarines.
4. Sink all Tier VII and VIII ships on the map.
5. At least 3 escort ships survive.

 

[GrandAdmiral_2016]

Suggestion. Limit the teams to RN, VMF, and DKM ships, aircraft carrier excepted because there are currently no RN, DKM or VMF CVs in the game. Unless land-based air gets introduced-that would allow JU-88 dive bombers-yes they were dive-bomb capable and good at it, and HE-111 and HE 115 torpedo bombers and FW Condor 4-engine recon bombers. That would allow the convoy to have a Bogue-class CV as an escort with Wildcats as fighters and  Avengers as TB-many RN CVEs were so equipped-a Swordfish or two would be nice, even a CAM ship. Cruiser driver will have to chose between fighters or smoke..all kind of possibilities..

[Creepershark77]

Just now, GrandAdmiral_2016 said:

Suggestion. Limit the teams to RN, VMF, and DKM ships, aircraft carrier excepted because there are currently no RN, DKM or VMF CVs in the game. Unless land-based air gets introduced-that would allow JU-88 dive bombers-yes they were dive-bomb capable and good at it, and HE-111 and HE 115 torpedo bombers and FW Condor 4-engine recon bombers. That would allow the convoy to have a Bogue-class CV as an escort with Wildcats as fighters and  Avengers as TB-many RN CVEs were so equipped-a Swordfish or two would be nice, even a CAM ship. Cruiser driver will have to chose between fighters or smoke..all kind os possibilities..

That's not going to happen, because this is for scenarios in PVE, so it won't be fair to people who play the other nations and such, which is no fun for those players at all.

[GrandAdmiral_2016]

1 hour ago, Creepershark77 said:

That's not going to happen, because this is for scenarios in PVE, so it won't be fair to people who play the other nations and such, which is no fun for those players at all.

I don't have a problem with that, provided the bots are all DKM ship of equivalent tiers. That will truly make this a tough scenario for all the other nations give the strengths of the DKM line. It would be nice to have land-based Luftwaffe air and I would think it is easier to do in PvE than anywhere else, at least for starters. The Luftwaffe bombers pack a bigger punch than any shipborne aircraft, but give the historical context they would not have any escort fighters. Mind you, the JU-88 could dogfight quite well in its' interceptor/night fighter guise. Just a thought...

[Creepershark77]

3 hours ago, GrandAdmiral_2016 said:

I don't have a problem with that, provided the bots are all DKM ship of equivalent tiers. That will truly make this a tough scenario for all the other nations give the strengths of the DKM line. It would be nice to have land-based Luftwaffe air and I would think it is easier to do in PvE than anywhere else, at least for starters. The Luftwaffe bombers pack a bigger punch than any shipborne aircraft, but give the historical context they would not have any escort fighters. Mind you, the JU-88 could dogfight quite well in its' interceptor/night fighter guise. Just a thought...

It can't be limited to KMS ships only, there needs to be some variety, also the aircraft don't matter as much, since the models are really hard to see unless you're viewing them in spectator mode.

[GrandAdmiral_2016]

 

4 hours ago, Creepershark77 said:

It can't be limited to KMS ships only, there needs to be some variety, also the aircraft don't matter as much, since the models are really hard to see unless you're viewing them in spectator mode.

A Heinkel 111 or 115 carries two 21-inch torpedoes. A JU-88 can carry 3 500-kg SAP bombs in the bomb bay and 2 100-kg bombs under the wings. They pack a huge punch and are the reason why the convoys had such heavy AA escort. Even the FW Condor could carry 4 250-Kg bombs in recon/strike mode. Eventually land-based air will have to be implemented in the game in some fashion. The RN risked a lot sending light cruisers and fleet DDs along with the convoys, along with AA ships and escort carriers. And that's not counting the covering forces involving RN and USN ships, including BBs. You could even put a Black Swan as an AA escort, because that was one of their main jobs along with AS work! Since this is about throwing out ideas, why not? Plus the Russians did what they could escort-wise with everything they had within 100 miles of their own coastline so they played an important part in this. I like this Arctic Convoy scenario idea, and from the comments I see I am not alone. We even have a map to play it on! The only thing missing in the DKM ship line is a CV, and it is in the works. In the meantime IJN CVs on loan to the Axis Partner can fill in quite nicely. Even the USN used the USS Ranger in Arctic waters to raid the Norwegian coastal ports and Luftwaffe airfields. Be creative! Whatever works until more ships get into the game, no problem...

[Creepershark77]

11 hours ago, GrandAdmiral_2016 said:

 

A Heinkel 111 or 115 carries two 21-inch torpedoes. A JU-88 can carry 3 500-kg SAP bombs in the bomb bay and 2 100-kg bombs under the wings. They pack a huge punch and are the reason why the convoys had such heavy AA escort. Even the FW Condor could carry 4 250-Kg bombs in recon/strike mode. Eventually land-based air will have to be implemented in the game in some fashion. The RN risked a lot sending light cruisers and fleet DDs along with the convoys, along with AA ships and escort carriers. And that's not counting the covering forces involving RN and USN ships, including BBs. You could even put a Black Swan as an AA escort, because that was one of their main jobs along with AS work! Since this is about throwing out ideas, why not? Plus the Russians did what they could escort-wise with everything they had within 100 miles of their own coastline so they played an important part in this. I like this Arctic Convoy scenario idea, and from the comments I see I am not alone. We even have a map to play it on! The only thing missing in the DKM ship line is a CV, and it is in the works. In the meantime IJN CVs on loan to the Axis Partner can fill in quite nicely. Even the USN used the USS Ranger in Arctic waters to raid the Norwegian coastal ports and Luftwaffe airfields. Be creative! Whatever works until more ships get into the game, no problem...

It isn't really important to Wargaming about this stuff, but what about how I came up with how submarines work by wolfpacks?

[GrandAdmiral_2016]

36 minutes ago, Creepershark77 said:

It isn't really important to Wargaming about this stuff, but what about how I came up with how submarines work by wolfpacks?

I think it is viable with small wolfpacks of 4 to 6 subs from a concentric arc ahead of the convoy about 1000 meters apart. Attacking on the surface, as they actually did at night, renders them immune to their natural enemies, the destroyers, sloops, frigates and corvettes (no radar and target too small for hydro, which we don't have on DDs in game anyway), until sighted, and detection distances would be inside those of a Ninja DD by about 1100 meters, which is long-shot torpedo rang for the sub. Any covering force of CLs and BBs would be vulnerable as well! I like the idea, but even with destroyer guns they were difficult targets to sink. Even in daylight, they are small, low lying targets and penetrating the pressure hull was almost impossible to do with 4-inch and 4.7-inch SAP rounds. Even a 5-inch round had difficulty, and the 3-inch on DDEs was a non-starter even with special ammunition. The rounded thick pressure hull and ballast tanks act as sloped armor with low-trajectory fire and the shells tended to bounce off more than they penetrated in real life. With a low HP level, if the guns don't get it done (depth charges are not active in the game) then your options are torpedoes or ramming. Aircraft bombs from AS patrols off escort carriers with the convoy are another option. You would need an automated bomb attack to begin when submarines are sighted by shipborne aircraft. All kind of ideas has this old Jedi.....

[Creepershark77]

21 minutes ago, GrandAdmiral_2016 said:

I think it is viable with small wolfpacks of 4 to 6 subs from a concentric arc ahead of the convoy about 1000 meters apart. Attacking on the surface, as they actually did at night, renders them immune to their natural enemies, the destroyers, sloops, frigates and corvettes (no radar and target too small for hydro, which we don't have on DDs in game anyway), until sighted, and detection distances would be inside those of a Ninja DD by about 1100 meters, which is long-shot torpedo rang for the sub. Any covering force of CLs and BBs would be vulnerable as well! I like the idea, but even with destroyer guns they were difficult targets to sink. Even in daylight, they are small, low lying targets and penetrating the pressure hull was almost impossible to do with 4-inch and 4.7-inch SAP rounds. Even a 5-inch round had difficulty, and the 3-inch on DDEs was a non-starter even with special ammunition. The rounded thick pressure hull and ballast tanks act as sloped armor with low-trajectory fire and the shells tended to bounce off more than they penetrated in real life. With a low HP level, if the guns don't get it done (depth charges are not active in the game) then your options are torpedoes or ramming. Aircraft bombs from AS patrols off escort carriers with the convoy are another option. You would need an automated bomb attack to begin when submarines are sighted by shipborne aircraft. All kind of ideas has this old Jedi.....

The only reason why the appear surfaced when they attack is to make them easier to sink, because there are no depth charges in the game, and torpedo should be more than enough to sink one, since they only have 4,000 HP and very little armor as well, and ramming them is pretty much a guaranteed kill, as well as secondaries being able to do some damage to them as a result.