I need help with plunging fire

[Abo89]

So right now I'm on the Cleveland, but this is for all ships in general. Does it matter more who I am shooting at, or more my caliber? Do you only do it at max range? Where do I aim at ships (water line is too low, but then if I aim higher I often over shoot) etc. Specifically on the Cleveland, I saw someone using AP on BBs at range and doing pretty decent damage. Is it ever useful to use plunging on DDs?

[amade]

Clevelands in this game can't do plunging fire with AP. At max range, the angle of fall isn't steep enough to surpass the autobounce angle. The shells may however hit thinly armored superstructures and not overpen.

 

 

[Carrier_Ikoma]

10 minutes ago, Abo89 said:

(water line is too low, but then if I aim higher I often over shoot) 

 

It's just a matter of finding that balance. When I play a spammy cruiser... I still have a bit of trouble getting it right sometimes. Aim a bit above waterline, but when you overshoot lower a tiny bit until you find the sweetspot. Training room might help practice if live players are too evasive to get this down.

1 minute ago, amade said:

The shells may however hit thinly armored superstructures and not overpen.

It's worth noting that while these can give some very nice damage at first, you will see diminishing returns here as the superstructures' HP runs out.

[Abo89]

1 minute ago, amade said:

Clevelands in this game can't do plunging fire with AP. At max range, the angle of fall isn't steep enough to surpass the autobounce angle.

 

 

He must have been at least hitting the super structure then. Is there any point though you should plunge in cruisers?

[MrDeaf]

You need around 18km for plunging fire from Cleveland.

[Abo89]

Just now, Carrier_Ikoma said:

 

It's just a matter of finding that balance. When I play a spammy cruiser... I still have a bit of trouble getting it right sometimes. Aim a bit above waterline, but when you overshoot lower a tiny bit until you find the sweetspot. Training room might help practice if live players are too evasive to get this down.

I was just thinking about downloading the test server.

[Carrier_Ikoma]

1 minute ago, Abo89 said:

He must have been at least hitting the super structure then. Is there any point though you should plunge in cruisers?

Mostly, for hitting deck areas. Hitting an armored hull with HE might result in 0 damage.

[Abo89]

Just now, MrDeaf said:

You need around 18km for plunging fire from Cleveland.

Like I said must have been hitting the superstructure then. I just know he was doing a good amount of damage at max range with AP.

[Carrier_Ikoma]

2 minutes ago, Abo89 said:

I was just thinking about downloading the test server.

 

Training room is a lot easier. It's built into the game but hidden by default.

 

 

[amade]

5 minutes ago, Abo89 said:

He must have been at least hitting the super structure then. Is there any point though you should plunge in cruisers?

Plunging fire is mostly the domain of BBs firing at long range. They also tend to have large enough shells to overmatch armor (overmatch rule: if shell caliber is more than x14.3 the armor thickness it hits, it will auto-penetrate regardless of angle).

I don't know the AoF for most cruisers, but I reckon most of them can't get steep enough to get past the autobounce angle. HE on deck only works if said HE can penetrate the deck (HE pen: caliber/6, or caliber/4 for Germans).

[Vaidency]

The Cleveland's AP shells can tear up battleship superstructures for quite good damage.  For best results, you want to catch them flat broadside, and then just aim at any large element of the superstructure.  Try to avoid hitting the turrets, though, as your shells won't do any damage to them.

[Abo89]

21 minutes ago, Carrier_Ikoma said:

 

Training room is a lot easier. It's built into the game but hidden by default.

 

 

Thanks so much for this 

[Lord_Sunder1337]

 6 inch (152mm) AP shell vs BB - Useless at the waterline..250mm+ of belt armor,citadel bulkheads,citadel armor plating say no! not going in..not ever! i am proof against you. Please try again with a higher caliber. Ships with turtleback armor will just laugh at you for trying.

Against fore end - you'll get some overpen but you can do some nice damage until the fore end runs out of HP..the more you hit the more the area is saturated and returns get smaller. good for a bit but not prolonged engagements.

Against aft end - same as fore end..save a touch thinner..you might even jam the rudder a time or two. Stuck in a tight turn to port? watch out for those torpeeeeedoooosss.

Upper belt armor - Upper belt armor is thick..stay away from that..just under the super structure the thin slice of upper hull is where you want to be. Not many tender bits there..the odd AA mount,SecBat gun nothing to go whoopee over.

Plunging fire is pretty much pointless with 6 inch AP..the deck armor is strong enough to either shatter the shell,bounce it off,or you get super structure. If your going to do plunging fire use HE or IFHE (Inertia Fuse High Explosive) Set fires,take out SecBat guns,,AA mounts, watch the HP melt away with every fire set. HE best choice for BB and DD..watch em burn baby burn! Shipping inferno. AP best against cruisers and air craft carriers,semi effective against destroyers,not effective against battleships.

[inktomi19d]

3 hours ago, Abo89 said:

Like I said must have been hitting the superstructure then. I just know he was doing a good amount of damage at max range with AP.

Superstructure, bow, stern and the upper belt (the first deck of the hull) are all lightly armored and can give you good hits from CL caliber AP. Basically, any part of the ship which is not e main armor belt or turrets is vulnerable. The only ships in the game with an armored upper belt are Kongo, Fuso, and Hood. 

 

Plunging fire is really not a thing in this game though. Range is limited so shells never come in at the right angle. 

 

As as a rule with CLs, use HE and start a fire first, but after that AP will do more than HE if you put it in the soft spots (upper belt, lower superstructure, bow, stern)

[Teahee]

Firstly: Plunging fire in its historical form does not exist in World of Warships. The game is a compressed form of reality (to avoid hours long battles), and this means that combat distances are reduced. For the vast majority of ships, true plunging fire will never come into play. It is also important to note that the visual "shell" that you see in your game is not always your real firing path - so while your shell may seem to come down at a steep angle, it is not always the case. 

 

Secondly: While there is no plunging fire, there are still circumstances where you should fire AP. The Cleveland's 152mm guns can cause serious damage against broadside BB armor using AP, provided you can hit the upper hull armor and avoid shattering on the thicker belt armor. However against cruisers, your guns should be easily capable of punching straight through the belt armor and penetrating the citadel. As for DDs, I am not sure what you mean here, but if you are asking if DDs can use plunging fire to cause deck penetration damage, the answer is no in almost all cases. As a DD you should be focusing on HE in most scenarios, since your gun caliber (and penetration) is much lower than other ship classes. The exception to this rule is Russian gunboats, with their high penetration 130mm AP shells which can cause significant damage to broadside ships. USN DDs can also cause respectable AP damage at close range, while the KMS DDs have high AP damage, but low penetration and shell normalization. 

[Phoenix_jz]

Learning how cruiser AP is best used against BBs will be quite important for you if you're going up the USN cruiser line. As far as 8" HE goes, while it's not German bad, USN 8" HE isn't exactly great. However, the AP is. With that, you can and will rip 10k damage salvoes off enemy BBs when shooting at their upper hull or superstructure. 

[twitch133]

8 minutes ago, Teahee said:

Firstly: Plunging fire in its historical form does not exist in World of Warships. The game is a compressed form of reality (to avoid hours long battles), and this means that combat distances are reduced. For the vast majority of ships, true plunging fire will never come into play. It is also important to note that the visual "shell" that you see in your game is not always your real firing path - so while your shell may seem to come down at a steep angle, it is not always the case. 

 

Secondly: While there is no plunging fire, there are still circumstances where you should fire AP. The Cleveland's 152mm guns can cause serious damage against broadside BB armor using AP, provided you can hit the upper hull armor and avoid shattering on the thicker belt armor. However against cruisers, your guns should be easily capable of punching straight through the belt armor and penetrating the citadel. As for DDs, I am not sure what you mean here, but if you are asking if DDs can use plunging fire to cause deck penetration damage, the answer is no in almost all cases. As a DD you should be focusing on HE in most scenarios, since your gun caliber (and penetration) is much lower than other ship classes. The exception to this rule is Russian gunboats, with their high penetration 130mm AP shells which can cause significant damage to broadside ships. USN DDs can also cause respectable AP damage at close range, while the KMS DDs have high AP damage, but low penetration and shell normalization. 

 

This...

 

The way that ranges are truncated (Instead of actually compressed) in this game means that "Plunging fire" does not meaningfully exist. Sure, there are a few ships that have a steep enough angle of fall to overcome autobounce at max range. But, they still do not fall at a steep enough angle to pen reliably. You are still going to be in the ~70% bounce range.

 

These ships are generally thought to be, N. Carolina with every single range upgrade and a spotter plane, Atlanta with AFT, some USN DD's with AFT, and Yamato with its maximum possible range (I don't know if it has any APR range upgrades, but it will need a spotter plane up).

 

I believe that some of the Royal Navy Cruisers would be capable of it with all of the range upgrades selected, even without their generous autobounce angles.

[Abo89]

1 hour ago, Teahee said:

Firstly: Plunging fire in its historical form does not exist in World of Warships. The game is a compressed form of reality (to avoid hours long battles), and this means that combat distances are reduced. For the vast majority of ships, true plunging fire will never come into play. It is also important to note that the visual "shell" that you see in your game is not always your real firing path - so while your shell may seem to come down at a steep angle, it is not always the case. 

 

Secondly: While there is no plunging fire, there are still circumstances where you should fire AP. The Cleveland's 152mm guns can cause serious damage against broadside BB armor using AP, provided you can hit the upper hull armor and avoid shattering on the thicker belt armor. However against cruisers, your guns should be easily capable of punching straight through the belt armor and penetrating the citadel. As for DDs, I am not sure what you mean here, but if you are asking if DDs can use plunging fire to cause deck penetration damage, the answer is no in almost all cases. As a DD you should be focusing on HE in most scenarios, since your gun caliber (and penetration) is much lower than other ship classes. The exception to this rule is Russian gunboats, with their high penetration 130mm AP shells which can cause significant damage to broadside ships. USN DDs can also cause respectable AP damage at close range, while the KMS DDs have high AP damage, but low penetration and shell normalization. 

Yea I was totally aware of this as far as the compression. What you answered for me is I didn't know about the thin armor along the side of the deck.

[IronWolfV]

There are actually very few ships that can achieve real plunging fire. Most are USN and they need to be basically at max range.

 

NC, Iowa, Missouri, Montana, USN DDs, Atlanta, Des Moines, Alabama.

 

About the only ones I know that can do it.