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zoik99

Zao Upgrade Suggestion

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Now before i say anything i will state that yes the zao is a very good ship but after the removal of the ability for destroyers and cruisers to be able to stealth fire with ease in japan line. The zao has become slightly the worst cruiser at the rate of change to the firing detection. Its very easy to say that now from stats alone the zao is the worst of the T10 Cruisers among all countries.

To where i am going with this as we know WOW wants to be accurate to lore while keeping balance on ships to prevent them from being too "OP" which is all. But that is where the zao kinda falls off from the historically correct  part of it. As the zao is based on the 1941 Type A Heavy Cruiser which is also known to be the Design B-65 cruiser that japan had planned back in 1939 and was to be made in 1942. Where the ship carriers 9 Tri-linked cannons at 310MM for its primary guns. In addition its natural stats are in large similarity to that of the Yamato as the ship was defined as a Super Type A cruiser. The ship in easiest terms was a "baby Yamato" so at least from my point of view of historical accuracy i would love to see them redesign the zao to make it more to its correct design with altered  stats to not make it a dumbly "OP" ship compared to the other T10 Ships. To assist in help show what i am talking about here is a clipped image from the info page of the B-65 Cruiser.

 

d3650d61bfa0a22a15cb1546ddbaaf65.png

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Yes i know it is not the zao that is what the zao is based off of from world of warships point of view as even in historical standpoint the zao was never a ship

 

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3 minutes ago, zoik99 said:

Yes i know it is not the zao that is what the zao is based off of from world of warships point of view as even in historical standpoint the zao was never a ship

 

There's also no way WG will add a 310mm armed heavy cruiser at tier 10 when ships like Moskva and H IV have much smaller guns. Also using a wikipedia page for a never built ship isn't really the best place to go on from...

Edited by Cruiser_Noshiro
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13 minutes ago, zoik99 said:

Yes i know it is not the zao that is what the zao is based off of from world of warships point of view as even in historical standpoint the zao was never a ship

 

Zao (Maru 6 Rearmament plan Type A cruiser) and B-65 (Super Type A Cruiser) are two different ship designs.

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I don't really agree that Zao is the worst. It has one of the hardest playstyles to fight against and it's very good at doing it. it's accuracy is insane.

Now, this playstyle is not the most constructive to winning, and it's winrate suffers because of that. Yet the Zao does well for itself, so I don't think it is the worst.

 

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19 minutes ago, Jinxed_Katajainen said:

Zao (Maru 6 Rearmament plan Type A cruiser) and B-65 (Super Type A Cruiser) are two different ship designs.

You say this Maru 6 Rearmament plan Type A cruiser was the zao so give me a form of proof that this class of ship existed with a ship named zao under its tree 

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The Zao is by no means the worst T10 cruiser, the steath fire was a bonus she used to have, but beeing that far away made you useless for your team, she never really needed it to survive.

She is very good at what she does, burn battleships, AP cruisers and one shot DDs, but you need to push to be useful, a lot closer than the 15.8 km stealth fire was for her

Edited by Jorge_Beaven

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4 minutes ago, zoik99 said:

You say this Maru 6 Rearmament plan Type A cruiser was the zao so give me a form of proof that this class of ship existed with a ship named zao under its tree 

 

It is well known by this point that Zaō is the Type A heavy cruiser 1941. No where has anyone claimed it was a different design until now. 

 

Type A 1941: meant to be armed with 12 x 20.3 cm/50 (was really 55) 18th Year Type naval guns. And that's what we see. The B-65 which you mention, and as Katajainen has stated, is a completely different design, better suited for a lower tier BB...I think.

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3 minutes ago, Doomlock said:

 

It is well known by this point that Zaō is the Type A heavy cruiser 1941. No where has anyone claimed it was a different design until now. 

 

Type A 1941: meant to be armed with 12 x 20.3 cm/50 (was really 55) 18th Year Type naval guns. And that's what we see. The B-65 which you mention, and as Katajainen has stated, is a completely different design, better suited for a lower tier BB...I think.

 

Or high tier BC if we ever see a dedicated tree for them. 

 

It was the Japanese counterpart to the Alaska Class afterall. 

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2 minutes ago, Doomlock said:

 

It is well known by this point that Zaō is the Type A heavy cruiser 1941. No where has anyone claimed it was a different design until now. 

 

Type A 1941: meant to be armed with 12 x 20.3 cm/50 (was really 55) 18th Year Type naval guns. And that's what we see. The B-65 which you mention, and as Katajainen has stated, is a completely different design, better suited for a lower tier BB...I think.

i get that but the fact that even when you look into the history of said zao via the WG wiki it is stated that said zao was based on and i quote from said page "The Zao (蔵王, named after Mount Zao), is based off of the 1941 Type A Heavy Cruiser, which was an attempt by Japanese ship makers to construct a Heavy Cruiser " which if you search into the 1941 Type A heavy Cruiser line you receive the first result being the design B-65 Cruiser.

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28 minutes ago, zoik99 said:

You say this Maru 6 Rearmament plan Type A cruiser was the zao so give me a form of proof that this class of ship existed with a ship named zao under its tree 

The plan/design study was real but never built so it wouldn't have been named (and likely no blueprint exists either), Zao is a made up name by WG.

Either way, the 1941 Type A (Maru 6) and Super Type A (Maru 5) are not the same design study.

'Unzen' here is an artist's rendition of what the 1941 Type A may have looked like.  Published in Koei's 'Uncompleted Fleet 1917~1950' but the source seems to be rather questionable.

Spoiler

uIMsVrg.jpg

Spoiler

wk4Fl0c.jpg

19 minutes ago, Doomlock said:

Type A 1941: meant to be armed with 12 x 20.3 cm/50 (was really 55) 18th Year Type naval guns. And that's what we see. The B-65 which you mention, and as Katajainen has stated, is a completely different design, better suited for a lower tier BB...I think.

The 'B' designation in the number shows that it was designed as a battlecruiser. (A = battleship (eg: A-140-J2 aka Izumo), C = cruiser) so it wouldn't be out of place in a BB tree.

She was designed in response to the USN's Alaskas which stems from the arms race in Europe where the Deutschlands prompted France to build the Dunkerques, which in turn Germany built the Scharnhorsts.  From there, the US believed Japan was building a 6x 30cm ship 'Chichibu class' (which turned out to be untrue) so they built the Alaskas.

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I like my heavy hitting, laser accurate rail guns with a ship that has 9.8km concealment.
No other ship has this combination of HE firepower combined with good concealment.

Minotaur? Des Moines? Their DPM is great, but good luck trying to nail fast moving DDs with those shell arcs. Minotaur has a better chance, due to better concealment, but they are no 12x 203mm rail guns of HE.
Moskva? HIV? They have laser accurate rail guns, but not the concealment to match. In fact the concealment really kills their flexibility.
Hindenburg? Somewhat flat shell arcs, good DPM, somewhat poor concealment

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9 hours ago, zoik99 said:

i get that but the fact that even when you look into the history of said zao via the WG wiki it is stated that said zao was based on and i quote from said page "The Zao (蔵王, named after Mount Zao), 

You do know the original name for the Zao was Senjo right? and they simple changed the name to a bigger mountain. (To be fair the name is made up in the first place)

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Based on my experience playing against them at t10, they don't seem like the worst CA in the game.  I think it's just that the meta is so radar heavy right now, they don't really get the love they deserve.  Ships that have radar get more attention because radar is so OP broken.

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I take Zao over Hindenburg (in fact I did), but i do play my Moskva and Mino way more.  I don't think I would take DM over Zao either.

 

Zao just isn't as fun as pre-nerf, but I was never great with her in her heyday either.  Port queen until I come back around someday, the torps are just way stupid.  Hard ship to love, I think it was my first T-X too...  If i want to play range/passive, i prefer Donskoi because at range you dont need Zao troll armor.  A good player can probably hard carry with Zao over Donskoi tho.

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I recently picked up a Zao and am very happy with it once I set it up to my style of play. It's captain is a 14 level so I have some ceiling left to grow.

I will run her for a month before I post how it is set up but, for now, I fear nothing one on one except an occasional Yamoto or a Kur Furst within 15 clicks.

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On 24/08/2017 at 8:07 PM, Predator_Strike said:

I recently picked up a Zao and am very happy with it once I set it up to my style of play. It's captain is a 14 level so I have some ceiling left to grow.

I will run her for a month before I post how it is set up but, for now, I fear nothing one on one except an occasional Yamoto or a Kur Furst within 15 clicks.

Awesome, congrats.  It really is a great CA, but with Mino being king of detection, better torps and smoke to boot - Zao just lost its luster to me.  If you want a tanky CA, Moskva can punish and brings crazy radar + good ROF.  Zao is no longer stealthy, and when you do surprise a DD your ROF means you will be dodging torps.

 

Zao is better than DM or Hindy (imo, I don't have).  All three/all T10 Cruisers are great.

 

My Zao has a 16 point captain I think, I think AR is a must, maybe RDF would bring more utility so you could stay undetected when needed..?   GL!

 

Some T10 cruiser 1v1 in the training room would be fun!  That may come down to Zao or DM for the win, don't know how Moskva or Hindy would line up. 

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On 6/15/2017 at 8:36 PM, zoik99 said:

Now before i say anything i will state that yes the zao is a very good ship but after the removal of the ability for destroyers and cruisers to be able to stealth fire with ease in japan line. The zao has become slightly the worst cruiser at the rate of change to the firing detection. Its very easy to say that now from stats alone the zao is the worst of the T10 Cruisers among all countries.

To where i am going with this as we know WOW wants to be accurate to lore while keeping balance on ships to prevent them from being too "OP" which is all. But that is where the zao kinda falls off from the historically correct  part of it. As the zao is based on the 1941 Type A Heavy Cruiser which is also known to be the Design B-65 cruiser that japan had planned back in 1939 and was to be made in 1942. Where the ship carriers 9 Tri-linked cannons at 310MM for its primary guns. In addition its natural stats are in large similarity to that of the Yamato as the ship was defined as a Super Type A cruiser. The ship in easiest terms was a "baby Yamato" so at least from my point of view of historical accuracy i would love to see them redesign the zao to make it more to its correct design with altered  stats to not make it a dumbly "OP" ship compared to the other T10 Ships. To assist in help show what i am talking about here is a clipped image from the info page of the B-65 Cruiser.

 

d3650d61bfa0a22a15cb1546ddbaaf65.png

 

Hey Zoike - you actually raise an interesting proposal - I believe the type you've outlined as the unbuilt IJN design was one of the paper designs that led the USN to actually build its Alaska Class of large cruisers (I.e. Sometimes referred to as BCs) armed w/ 9 - 12" guns and displacing ~30k tons as a counter to the Japanese possibly building these ships.   There has been speculation that the Alaska class would eventually appear in-game - so tho the Zao is a hypothetical design that fits the IJN Cruiser line more "comfortably", you may get your wish in a alternative form when the Alaska Class BCs are added to the game at some point in the future.

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On 8/30/2017 at 8:22 AM, WhiteRecon said:

Awesome, congrats.  It really is a great CA, but with Mino being king of detection, better torps and smoke to boot - Zao just lost its luster to me.  If you want a tanky CA, Moskva can punish and brings crazy radar + good ROF.  Zao is no longer stealthy, and when you do surprise a DD your ROF means you will be dodging torps.

 

Zao is better than DM or Hindy (imo, I don't have).  All three/all T10 Cruisers are great.

 

My Zao has a 16 point captain I think, I think AR is a must, maybe RDF would bring more utility so you could stay undetected when needed..?   GL!

 

Some T10 cruiser 1v1 in the training room would be fun!  That may come down to Zao or DM for the win, don't know how Moskva or Hindy would line up. 

I have a Hinde and I'd have to give it a notch up on the Zao for toughness. Still, I play those two boats 10 to 1 over my others.

Would like to pilot the Moskya for a bit to see how she does as I have had some battles against it and have come out on top.

I have been using the delayed fuse HE option on both boats with great success.

We fear no DD at any range and can usually sink em before they can throw fish.

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On 06/09/2017 at 9:27 PM, Predator_Strike said:

I have a Hinde and I'd have to give it a notch up on the Zao for toughness. Still, I play those two boats 10 to 1 over my others.

Would like to pilot the Moskya for a bit to see how she does as I have had some battles against it and have come out on top.

I have been using the delayed fuse HE option on both boats with great success.

We fear no DD at any range and can usually sink em before they can throw fish.

More power to ya!  I would one v one a Hinde any day in my Moskva, even with a HP deficit.  The torps are the only scary part, but they are very scary.  W/O torps i would give no respect to Hinde.  That doesnt meant i cant be caught slipping.  I do wonder how well that weak German AP penetration works against the stern when I'm forced to kite. 

- btw, I've always wanted a Roon and Hinde, but don't want to grind the 6, 7 & 8 (especially after I won the Eugen which I love).  - and I have plenty of handpicked great ships, if u get too many they really start to feel too similar. 

Edited by WhiteRecon

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