The Konig Disaster

[Do_Doch_Nicht]

The SMS Konig is horribly rendered.  It is not even close.  This is a ship that was a WWI Dreadnaught. I believe it was launched in 1914 and scuttled in 1919, but in World of Torpedoes, (WoT), (Excuse me I mean World of Warships), it looks like a 1942 Fuso with an enormous flying Superstructure.  The Konig's superstructure was not massive like that. It was definitely a low profile Dreadnaught.  Note the two attached illustrations. The 1918 Line Drawing is much more in accord with the photos of the ship from the era. Note the bow is not like the Iowa or Missouri, the bow angles the other way as most Dreadnaughts of that era angled.  Why is that incorrect?  It doesn't end there. The funnels should be relatively low profile as well, but in WoT they rise higher and even have funnel caps that are way wrong.  Lastly next to the fore funnel there are a couple of Fire Control Domes a la the Tirpitz or Bismarck that the Konig never had.  What gives?  Seriously, if you can't get close to the graphics how can we expect the game modeling to be reasonable?

Which brings us to the Aircraft Carriers. What in Fairness Sakes is WoT doing to allow Aircraft to approach their target circle and then engage after they have prompted the target ship to commit to a turn?  In the war aircraft  did not have fuel for that charade and the element of surprise would have been lost. When planes circle like that the attrition rate of downed aircraft should increase substantially.

Torpedoes have begun to not run quite as true but if you can't program a ships appearance properly how can we expect torpedoes to behave on a more realistic basis. 

Come on man!

[Captain_Dorja]

The ship has ahistorical upgrades to the hull duh. Calm yourself down. If they didn't give Kaiser, Konig,  Bayern, and Gneisenau fictional hull upgrades the German BB line would go from tier 3 straight to tier 8 and then end.

[Skpstr]

I dunno what to say. I honestly can't see any issue with WG's rendition. Everything's pretty much where it should be. Yes, the original Konig didn't have a raked bow or funnel caps. And it was scrapped as part of war reparations.

 

But had they kept them, they would have refit them, so they get a New Mexico-style upgrade with the top hull. 

 

It's not like Germany never did that sort of thing. Scharnhorst and Gneisenau got a bow refit and funnel caps in 1939.

[_Sarcasticat_]

The reason Konig looks like this is simply what it would look like if it had been if it had not been scuttled in WW1, basically killing your entire argument. Anyway, what's with the random torpedo ranting? Killed by them because you can't WASD?

[CPT_Nelson]

It's never a good idea to come to the forum after a raging defeat. As for the rest, it's already mentioned above. 

[renegadestatuz]

@dseehafer take a look at this.

[dseehafer]

While I agree that there is no excuse as to why Konig's stock hull is not rendered historically (since her stock hull is otherwise mostly historically accurate, statistically speaking)... As others have mentioned, she needs the ahistorical "What if Konig survived until WWII" B hull build to be competitive at tier 5, especially in the AA category.

 

Thanks, @renegadestatuz for bringing this to my attention.

[Battlecruiser_Siegfried]

They gave it a really ugly, really out-of-line-with-HSF-trends ahistorical upgrade. And it sucks. But there's nothing that can be done about it.

[Ajatcho]

 

[Skpstr]

5 hours ago, Battlecruiser_Renown said:

They gave it a really ugly, really out-of-line-with-HSF-trends ahistorical upgrade. And it sucks. But there's nothing that can be done about it.

 

Why is it out of line? Gneisenau and Scharnhorst had a bow refit and funnel caps added.

[Admiral_Franz_von_Hipper]

BBaby spotted!

You know how hard it is to land torpedo hits right?

 

A-Hull König has only a few changes from the actual ship (Funnel cap, larger diameter foremast). Other than that, there is not much different.

 

About airplanes, the real airplanes has more than enough fuel to fly for 15 full-length battles, so don't complain about "fuel".

[Do_Doch_Nicht]

10 hours ago, Captain_Dorja said:

The ship has ahistorical upgrades to the hull duh. Calm yourself down. If they didn't give Kaiser, Konig,  Bayern, and Gneisenau fictional hull upgrades the German BB line would go from tier 3 straight to tier 8 and then end.

The argument that the Konig is rendered as if it had survived to the second world war is specious and without merit.  It is a very shallow argument offered by  those that lack the ability to discern and flies directly in the face of other early period Dreadnaught renderings that are solidly done. For instance the Nassau and the Warspite. ....No what you have with the Konig was lack of attention to detail and a rendering that was done on an artists impression.

WoT if you wish to be viewed as credible Fix your problems. Start with the simple there is plenty to be done. I'll give you some other insights later. Time for work.

 

.

 

9 hours ago, StrixKitty said:

The reason Konig looks like this is simply what it would look like if it had been if it had not been scuttled in WW1, basically killing your entire argument. Anyway, what's with the random torpedo ranting? Killed by them because you can't WASD?

 

6 hours ago, dseehafer said:

While I agree that there is no excuse as to why Konig's stock hull is not rendered historically (since her stock hull is otherwise mostly historically accurate, statistically speaking)... As others have mentioned, she needs the ahistorical "What if Konig survived until WWII" B hull build to be competitive at tier 5, especially in the AA category.

 

Thanks, @renegadestatuz for bringing this to my attention.

 

6 hours ago, Battlecruiser_Renown said:

They gave it a really ugly, really out-of-line-with-HSF-trends ahistorical upgrade. And it sucks. But there's nothing that can be done about it.

 

35 minutes ago, Admiral_Franz_von_Hipper said:

BBaby spotted!

You know how hard it is to land torpedo hits right?

 

A-Hull König has only a few changes from the actual ship (Funnel cap, larger diameter foremast). Other than that, there is not much different.

 

About airplanes, the real airplanes has more than enough fuel to fly for 15 full-length battles, so don't complain about "fuel".

F

[Mercury49]

59 minutes ago, Admiral_Franz_von_Hipper said:

 

About airplanes, the real airplanes has more than enough fuel to fly for 15 full-length battles, so don't complain about "fuel".

 

I think I get what you are saying but I am going to clarify anyway. if you compare in game distances to real life, yes plenty of fuel. Because 30 km is nothing for a plane. But in real life, planning how much fuel the planes had was a major part of mission planning. 

[dbs1701]

I agree with the rendering comments. WG did an excellent job on Amagi, both in creating a reasonable looking 20's hull and a reasonable 40's upgrade.  But the HSF line really is not as well designed 

[Captain_Dorja]

@Do_Doch_Nicht, you're telling me my "arguement" is specious and lacking merit. Well I've got news for you Heir Schrechlichkeit. I'm not sharing an opinion that is open to discussion. Im starting, in unequivocal terms, why what you asked about is the way it is. This is a case where you can disagree with me if you so choose, but in order to do so, you must willingly choose to be wrong. That, as the Germans say, is total bescheuert .

[Helstrem]

4 hours ago, Do_Doch_Nicht said:

The argument that the Konig is rendered as if it had survived to the second world war is specious and without merit.  It is a very shallow argument offered by  those that lack the ability to discern and flies directly in the face of other early period Dreadnaught renderings that are solidly done. For instance the Nassau and the Warspite. ....No what you have with the Konig was lack of attention to detail and a rendering that was done on an artists impression.

WoT if you wish to be viewed as credible Fix your problems. Start with the simple there is plenty to be done. I'll give you some other insights later. Time for work.

Warspite does not have a WWI dreadnought superstructure.  She has her 1930s rebuilt superstructure.

 

Leaving Konig with her WWI build would be a disadvantage compared to the dreadnoughts that went on to receive upgrades, thus the fantasy upgrade.

[More_Witches]

15 hours ago, Do_Doch_Nicht said:

-snip-

Torpedoes have begun to not run quite as true but if you can't program a ships appearance properly how can we expect torpedoes to behave on a more realistic basis. 

Come on man!

-snip-

I'm pretty sure that the people in charge of ship rendering are part of a different team than the one's in charge of weapon balance/behavior

 

Also, WoT is a game, not the company that makes it. You're looking for WG 

[VTAdmiral]

4 hours ago, Mercury49 said:

 

I think I get what you are saying but I am going to clarify anyway. if you compare in game distances to real life, yes plenty of fuel. Because 30 km is nothing for a plane. But in real life, planning how much fuel the planes had was a major part of mission planning. 

Not at the distances we're fighting at. It only becomes a consideration when you get to over 100km.

 

In a typical WoWS match, I doubt any plane would even need to refuel once with the distances being covered. Fuel is not even remotely an issue at these ranges.

[More_Witches]

17 minutes ago, Destroyer_Kiyoshimo said:

Not at the distances we're fighting at. It only becomes a consideration when you get to over 100km.

 

In a typical WoWS match, I doubt any plane would even need to refuel once with the distances being covered. Fuel is not even remotely an issue at these ranges.

Actually, the average fully loaded range for most carrier-borne strike aircraft of that era was around 1000 miles (most allied fighters had shorter range than that, but not by very much). Seeing as 100km is a touch over 60 miles, it still wouldn't have been much of a concern there

 

And even the pre-war low tier aircraft had ranges of about 400 miles or so

[Do_Doch_Nicht]

3 hours ago, Helstrem said:

Warspite does not have a WWI dreadnought superstructure.  She has her 1930s rebuilt superstructure.

 

Leaving Konig with her WWI build would be a disadvantage compared to the dreadnoughts that went on to receive upgrades, thus the fantasy upgrade.

With the warspite you're talking an upgrade that actually was.  The Konig never became the Fuso.  Its not even debatable. Bows are not upgraded.  It was shoddy workmanship which brings us to the harder part that you dang well know they have no clue on.  If you can't render exteriors you can't render weapons results. They lack a frame of reference for both.

Carrier attacks cannot have the a squardron of torpedo bombers circle at altitude waiting for a ship to turn.  Torpedo bombers had to make their run from low altitude. Not something the stupid game even comes close to duplicating. Fuel was allocated for mission length and planes did not circle around at altitude.  Anybody familiar with the game fiction where the torpedo bombers come over a volcanic island with no clearance between the island and the ship and lay a torpedo spread with no ability to get down to  torpedo launch level?   It just makes one shake their head at a vested Beta Tester and laugh til one's sides split!

WoT (WORLD OF TORPEDOES)  COME ON MAN...........RAISE YOUR GAME!  You owe the community that!

Next time, the Torpedo as it actually was.  I want the game writers to have their data ready for this.  Just do the right thing. That's all we want. You know what you have NOT been  doing!

[More_Witches]

5 minutes ago, Do_Doch_Nicht said:

With the warspite you're talking an upgrade that actually was.  The Konig never became the Fuso.  Its not even debatable. Bows are not upgraded.  It was shoddy workmanship which brings us to the harder part that you dang well know they have no clue on.  If you can't render exteriors you can't render weapons results. They lack a frame of reference for both.

Carrier attacks cannot have the a squardron of torpedo bombers circle at altitude waiting for a ship to turn.  Torpedo bombers had to make their run from low altitude. Not something the stupid game even comes close to duplicating. Fuel was allocated for mission length and planes did not circle around at altitude.  Anybody familiar with the game fiction where the torpedo bombers come over a volcanic island with no clearance between the island and the ship and lay a torpedo spread with no ability to get down to  torpedo launch level?   It just makes one shake their head at a vested Beta Tester and laugh til one's sides split!

WoT (WORLD OF TORPEDOES)  COME ON MAN...........RAISE YOUR GAME!  You owe the community that!

Next time, the Torpedo as it actually was.  I want the game writers to have their data ready for this.  Just do the right thing. That's all we want. You know what you have NOT been  doing!

Again, you do realize that the team working on ship renders aren't the same people working on weapon balance/behavior, right?

[Shadowslayer81]

18 hours ago, Do_Doch_Nicht said:

The SMS Konig is horribly rendered.  It is not even close.  This is a ship that was a WWI Dreadnaught. I believe it was launched in 1914 and scuttled in 1919, but in World of Torpedoes, (WoT), (Excuse me I mean World of Warships), it looks like a 1942 Fuso with an enormous flying Superstructure.  The Konig's superstructure was not massive like that. It was definitely a low profile Dreadnaught.  Note the two attached illustrations. The 1918 Line Drawing is much more in accord with the photos of the ship from the era. Note the bow is not like the Iowa or Missouri, the bow angles the other way as most Dreadnaughts of that era angled.  Why is that incorrect?  It doesn't end there. The funnels should be relatively low profile as well, but in WoT they rise higher and even have funnel caps that are way wrong.  Lastly next to the fore funnel there are a couple of Fire Control Domes a la the Tirpitz or Bismarck that the Konig never had.  What gives?  Seriously, if you can't get close to the graphics how can we expect the game modeling to be reasonable?

Which brings us to the Aircraft Carriers. What in Fairness Sakes is WoT doing to allow Aircraft to approach their target circle and then engage after they have prompted the target ship to commit to a turn?  In the war aircraft  did not have fuel for that charade and the element of surprise would have been lost. When planes circle like that the attrition rate of downed aircraft should increase substantially.

Torpedoes have begun to not run quite as true but if you can't program a ships appearance properly how can we expect torpedoes to behave on a more realistic basis. 

Come on man!

 

Blasphemy! The Konig is one of the best ships in this game! I absolutely love it. Who care if they had to give it a fantasy upgrade, this isn't a documentary. Though I kinda wish they would do a realistic mode like War Thunder where everything is as real as can be. IE real combat ranges, armor,  etc.

[CaptainKaitoGhost]

1 hour ago, Do_Doch_Nicht said:

With the warspite you're talking an upgrade that actually was.  The Konig never became the Fuso.  Its not even debatable. Bows are not upgraded.  It was shoddy workmanship which brings us to the harder part that you dang well know they have no clue on.  If you can't render exteriors you can't render weapons results. They lack a frame of reference for both.

Carrier attacks cannot have the a squardron of torpedo bombers circle at altitude waiting for a ship to turn.  Torpedo bombers had to make their run from low altitude. Not something the stupid game even comes close to duplicating. Fuel was allocated for mission length and planes did not circle around at altitude.  Anybody familiar with the game fiction where the torpedo bombers come over a volcanic island with no clearance between the island and the ship and lay a torpedo spread with no ability to get down to  torpedo launch level?   It just makes one shake their head at a vested Beta Tester and laugh til one's sides split!

WoT (WORLD OF TORPEDOES)  COME ON MAN...........RAISE YOUR GAME!  You owe the community that!

Next time, the Torpedo as it actually was.  I want the game writers to have their data ready for this.  Just do the right thing. That's all we want. You know what you have NOT been  doing!

 

Just play the stock Konig, then.

[Do_Doch_Nicht]

On ‎6‎/‎15‎/‎2017 at 5:05 PM, CaptainKaitoGhost said:

 

Just play the stock Konig, then.

Because the stock looks like a steaming pile of pooh  too.

[KaptainKaybe]

Note: the Konig in game is the Konig *class*, not the actual Konig. Did any of those ships look like the A hull Konig in game?