Some musings about home brew vs import

[Lert]

A thought hit me today.

 

The Dutch armed forces import a lot of their equipment. It's to be expected, we're a small country without the industry to design and build all that stuff ourselves.

 

Our air force flies US designed and built F16As, now gradually switching over to US designed and built F35As. We operate a few Learjets, KDC-10 tankers, C-130H Hercules, etc. In fact, apart from a few French built helicopters, all the Dutch air force flies is American.

 

Air army drives Swedish designed CV9035NLs with 35mm Bushmaster guns. We are in the process of buying a few Leopard 2A7s as well, and operate a number of German PZH2000 artillery pieces, Fuchs APCs, Buffel recovery vehicles - in fact, most of our Army's inventory is German in origin, though AFAIK using a Dutch electronics suite.

 

But then we come to our navy ... Everything we sail is of Dutch design and build. We have indiginously designed diesel-electric submarines, offshore patrol boats, guided missile frigates, logistics and supply vessels, etc. Ok, they use imported weapon systems (Oto Melara guns and US designed missiles and torpedoes) but the hulls, electronics and engines are all Dutch design and manufacture (In case of the engines, Dutch manufacture but I'm less sure of where they were designed).

 

That made me wonder; are ships that much easier to design and manufacture than tanks and planes? Why doesn't the Dutch government simply operate foreign built ships? Are we that much more prideful that we 'have to' sail domestic even if we fly and drive foreign?

 

<Edit>

 

It could just be that we have never had a proper tank industry and our airplane industry, Fokker, couldn't keep up with technology and went belly up some time ago - the last viable military Fokker aircraft were interwar period I think. Meanwhile we've had a solid ship building industry since the early age of sail, if not before.

[Doomlock]

 

 

[RipNuN2]

 

 

I havent seen a post from that poster that was ever serious. Back to your topic though, I always thought the little Fokkers were pretty cool. I think your final point is probably closer to the truth. Without an already established tank and aircraft industry it would be hard to start one up in the face of such competitors on the global market. Why reinvent the wheel when you can easily buy so many things from other nations and get them to compete for your business.

[m373x]

I didn't know you guys even HAD a military. I was under the impression you just hired AMERICAN MERCENARIES to do all of your fighting.

 

 

Makes sense, why would you want to risk your own men's life when you can hire american soldiers to be catching the lead.

[Estimated_Prophet]

Meanwhile we've had a solid ship building industry since the early age of sail, if not before.

 

Tradition and herritage mean a lot; what used to be one of the most influential naval powers on Earth; and they can't manage to build their own ships? That would be pretty bad...

 

Hopefully the Dutch never built anything like the Vasa...

[_Sarcasticat_]

I didn't know you guys even HAD a military. I was under the impression you just hired AMERICAN MERCENARIES to do all of your fighting.

 

 

...How could anyone have such a ridiculous impression? There is literally no base to it.

 

 

[mofton]

I think unlike with tanks and planes, ships may have a more bespoke requirement unique to the nation building them.

 

For instance there's nothing quite like the Danish Absalon class ship. The DZP class have similarities to other nations ships but the design has differing weightings on weapons requirement, helicopter fit, size, crewing, propulsion system etc. even to similar designs.

 

In contrast the Leopard, Abrams, Challenger LeClerc and Ariete are significantly more similar in design, purpose, crew, specification. Different requirements.

 

 

Multi-national efforts are spreading into ship design too with things like the FREMM/Horizon class, I think perhaps it's just a little behind.

 

 

Ships look like they have a longer lead time to me, so keeping the capability to build in-house may be strategically valuable.

[Jim_Byrnes]

I didn't know you guys even HAD a military. I was under the impression you just hired AMERICAN MERCENARIES to do all of your fighting.

 

 

 

Of course they do! I believe they were charter members of NATO. And since when we field battalion size mercenaries forces? Their resistance forces did invaluable service for the allies in WW2. Your comment is either a joke or a reflection of the drivel being taught at our university's today....

[Spooooooooooooooooooooon]

Dutch troops were in both Iraq and Afghanistan with us.  Good guys.

 

 

 

 

[MrDeaf]

I think it's because the Dutch have had a healthy ship building industry for a long time. Once you abandon an industry, the knowledge goes with it.

For instance, it would be pretty much impossible to manufacture 203mm guns or larger these days, because all of the knowledge, tooling and skilled workforce has been long gone. Did the Dutch have an aircraft industry or AFV/tank industry? There is your answer.

 

Another example is when Canada abandoned its Avro Arrow project. Look at where Canada's aerospace industry is now.

Bombardier commercial jets? Yes.

Military contracts like Boeing and Lockheed? No.

[Skraeling]

came expecting homebrew beer thread... leaving dissapointed.

[WolfofWarship]

I think it's well known that different countries have access to different materials and specialise in different areas. Most machines are built with elements from multiple places even if they are only minor components like bolts.

 

That said, I know a lot of countries take pride in their own manufacturing and there's nothing wrong with that. Both ways work, depends what the desired result is really! Would a country rather their product was 'home grown' even if a neighbouring country could produce a better quality product? Or cheaper?