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MJPIA

How exactly does turret damage and incapacitation work?

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SY4uCJD.png?1

After losing a Izumo turret to a single hit at the beginning of the game I tried doing some tests and am really wondering how the turret damage mechanism's work.

My previous assumptions were turrets have a certain health pool and once that health pool reaches zero from enough penetrating hit the turret is incapacitated and another penetrating hit while incapacitated will destroy it but that's not right.

Izumo 1

turret 1

1 pen
2 pens
2 pens incapacitated
1 overpen
1 pen one overpen destroyed

 

turret 2
1 pen 1 overpen incapacitaded
1 pen incapacitated
1 pen incapacitated
1 pen 1 overpen after incap
1 pen destroyed

 

turret 3
2 pens incapacated
1 pen one overpen destroyed

 Izumo 2

 

turret 1 
3 overpen
1 pen 1 overpen incapacitated
1 overpen
1 overpen incapacitated
1 pen destroyed

 

turret 2
2 overpen incapacitated
2 pen destroyed


turret 3

2 pen 1 overpen
1 pen incapacitated
2 overpen destroyed

 I blew up a bunch of Izumo turrets before I started keeping track and several were incapacitated by a single overpen without taking any previous damage while others ate over 5 penetrating hits and were incapacitated multiple times before being destroyed.

 

Overpens to turrets damage both the ship and turret health pool as well as the chance to incapacitate or destroy turrets whereas normal penetrating hits to barbettes of turrets only damage the turret module.

jRP838W.png?1

gnlM9Fd.png?1

 

Surprisingly enough after a turret is destroyed the hitboxes for both the turret and barbette seemingly disappear.

S7QbNIk.png?1

hZHRpzd.png?1

You can shoot through them.

 

So how does turret module damage work?

How much damage does a penetrating hit to a turret do, AP's normal x.33 or something else, does a overpen deal x.1 the shell damage to the turret like it does to the ship itself or does it deal a different amount of damage and is there a same chance of incapacitation as there is with a penetrating hit?

What is the chance that a penetrating hit will incapacitate/destroy a turret and does that number change as the turret loses health?

We know a magazine has a max 10% to detonate after its health is fully depleted and a turrets chance to incapacitate seems much higher than that.

Is there even anyone who actually read this far?

Do different ships and ship classes have different incapacitation chances?

If the turret and barbette hitboxes disappear after the turret is destroyed does that mean there is now a large hole in your armor leading straight into your citadel?

All turrets in-game from 220mm to 356mm have 15,000 health and 406 up have 20,000 health like this.

HFRWDwW.png?1

With one exception.

BgaB0hA.png?1

Großer Kurfürst whose turrets have twice the health pool of any other ship in the game.

Does that higher health pool mean Kurrywurst's turrets are less likely to be incapacitated by pens or is a single overpen just as likely to roll a incapacitating hit?

 

 

We know pretty much everything about magazine detonations now, is there similar info about turrets out there?

 

 

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[cut]

Is there even anyone who actually read this far?

Yes.

Sorry though I have no information or insight to provide to the rest of your questions however I am curious about the answers as well.

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This would be a great question for one of the dev Q&As... unless it's already buried in a previous one.

 

But Sub_Octavian in particular went into pretty thorough detail on how AA mechanics work in some previous Q&As, which are very counterintuitive. I wouldn't be surprised if modules/nodule damage also have some mysterious inner workings (perhaps with a healthy dose of RNG) that aren't clear at all unless a dev explains them.

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Is it possible that once a turret is incapped, it has another HP pool that has to be gone through to destroy it?

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this is TOTALLY a Little White Mouse question, ask She who knows all and shares some

Edited by Umikami

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This would be a great question for one of the dev Q&As... unless it's already buried in a previous one.

 

But Sub_Octavian in particular went into pretty thorough detail on how AA mechanics work in some previous Q&As, which are very counterintuitive. I wouldn't be surprised if modules/nodule damage also have some mysterious inner workings (perhaps with a healthy dose of RNG) that aren't clear at all unless a dev explains them.

He might have explained this somewhere (I'd swear this has been talked about before in detail) but I can't find it and he has info scattered across this forum, reddit, and all the other server forums.

I'll probably bring it up next time he does a Q&A.

 

Is it possible that once a turret is incapped, it has another HP pool that has to be gone through to destroy it?

Not that I'm aware of or can find in the files.

 

Been digging through the client files and I think I've found some raw data although understanding it is another thing.

Here is the part of the raw data for Currywurst's turrets.

 

PGGM148_420MM_48_DRH_LC_1940
 "hlType": "artillery_hitlocation",
                    "maxBuoyancy": 0.0,
                    "maxHP": 40000.0,
                    "moduleCritCoeffCR": 1.0,
                    "moduleCritCoeffXP": 1.0,
                    "parentHL": null,
                    "regeneratedHPPart": 0.5,
                    "rndPartHP": 0.5,
                    "splashBoxes": [
                        "CM_SB_gk_4_1"

  "HP_GGM_4": {
                "HitLocationArtillery": {
                    "armorCoeff": 0.0,
                    "autoRepairTime": 30,
                    "autoRepairTimeMin": 25,
                    "buoyancyShipPercent": 0.0,
                    "burnNode": "",
                    "canBeDestroyed": true,
                    "critProb": [
                        0.05,
                        0.75
                    ],
                    "critProbHP": [
                        1.0,
                        0.02

 

And part of Izumo's

 

PJSB021_Izumo_1938": {
        "ABC1_Artillery": {
            "HP_JGM_1": {
                "HitLocationArtillery": {
                    "armorCoeff": 0.0,
                    "autoRepairTime": 30,
                    "autoRepairTimeMin": 25,
                    "buoyancyShipPercent": 0.0,
                    "burnNode": "",
                    "canBeDestroyed": true,
                    "critProb": [
                        0.05,
                        0.75
                    ],
                    "critProbHP": [
                        1.0,
                        0.02

"hlType": "artillery_hitlocation",
                    "maxBuoyancy": 0.0,
                    "maxHP": 20000.0,
                    "moduleCritCoeffCR": 1.0,
                    "moduleCritCoeffXP": 1.0,
                    "parentHL": null,
                    "regeneratedHPPart": 0.5,
                    "rndPartHP": 0.5,
                    "splashBoxes": [
                        "CM_SB_gk_1_1"

 So presumably at least all BB turrets have the same incap chances.

In comparison here's raw data on magazine detonation chance which has been dissected and scienced thanks to LWM.

 
"hitDetonationMaxProbAtDamage": [
                    0.1,
                    1.0
                ],
                "hitDetonationMinProbAtDamage": [
                    0.01,
                    0.3

 We know a magazine when fully destroyed (1.0 in the files) has a 10% (0.1) chance to detonate and up to 30% (0.3) its a .01% chance.

Its formatted differently but I'm going to assume at full health a turret has a 5% chance to be incapacitated and when the health is fully depleted a 75% chance.

I don't know how to scale the incap chance but presumably it involves the critprobhp.

So again I'm coming back to how much damage a shell does to a turret?

 

Also did one quick test in the training room with a Des Moines and nothing scientific but Currywurst turrets take a lot more hits to incapacitate than on a Montana or Izumo.

 

 

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i was under the impression turrets were incapicatated if they were hit with enough penetrating AP, andwere destroyed outright if ther health was reduced to 0

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I've been working on this problem for the last couple of weeks.  This was the information that was largely lost when Game Center uninstalled my client and took with it all of the screenshots and replays I had.  This included hours upon hours of derping shells into the turrets of South Carolina and the torpedo tubes of Mahan.

 

What I was trying to isolate was how much damage attacks were actually doing to modules.  I mean, you can't figure out how likely you are to blow up a magazine if you don't know how much damage each attack is doing.  So I started with using Furutaka's 203mm single-fire turrets and blasting shots into the side of South Carolina's gun batteries at ranges of less than 500m.  I got really good at doing this -- such that I could blow off whole turrets without doing a single point of damage to South Carolina's hit points.  I immediately ran into a problem, though.

 

Y7ZvtPM.jpg?1

No South Carolina hit points were harmed in the pruning of her batteries.

 

As MJPIA has noticed -- the number of hits needed isn't fixed.  With 4,700 Alpha Strike, my assumption would be that Furutaka's 203mm should chew through the 15,000hp of South Carolina's guns in 4 hits if they did full damage and 11 hits if they did 0.33x damage.  Instead, the number of hits was all over the map. 

 

  • 8 Furtuaka AP penetrating hits to destroy South Carolina turret.
  • 14 Furtuaka AP penetrating hits to destroy South Carolina turret
  • 6 Furtuaka  AP penetrating hits to destroy South Carolina turret
  • 8 Furtuaka AP penetrating hits to destroy South Carolina turret

 

What this told me was that either I had horrible aim and the shells weren't damaging the turret with each penetrating hit OR there was another element of RNG at work here.  I suspected the latter and set about to confirm this.  Having lost all of my data and being forced to restart, I don't have the actual values to quote any direct numbers.  My hope was to publish what the average damage per shot actually was for a few guns and then extrapolate that to provide values for the whole to the community.  Well, that'll still be in the works.  You'll just have to take this explanation without examples.

 

Sub_Octavian confirmed my suspicions when he volunteered to answer a few questions to make up for the snafu with my uninstalled client.

 

ALL DAMAGE DONE TO MODULES IS SUBJECT TO RNG

 

So there's no "fixed" damage to a module from a given attack.  While there is a base range for each attack, this is modified to do less or more than its profile stated.  This is applied to each attack every time you pull the trigger.  That one torpedo hit into your Yamato bows?  Maybe it high rolls against your magazine, depletes it more than you would expect and leads to a closer to maximum detonation chance.  That 380mm HE shell your Tirpitz slams onto the decks of a Iowa to try and thin out some of its AA guns?  Maybe it low rolls here and there and a few more Bofors, Oerlikons and 127mm/38s survive than you think they should.

 

 RNG is added to exclude the scenarios when, for example, a single shell splash-destroys all AA mounts in area at once. With it, only some will be destroyed, and some will survive for a few more hits. Or, for example, to exclude the type of thinking "okay, if I shoot North Carolina turret with 3 shells, it's a guarantee to destroy it" - such scenarios are not desirable gameplay-wise. We're not WoT where targeting specific small sections should matter.

 

I understand where he's coming from here given the massive size of HE blast sizes of certain attacks.  Consider the number of modules a single HE shell from a Colorado can do to a Mahan.

 

OfbEEHe.jpg

Maybe we should reconsider shooting more HE at destroyers from Battleships?

 

So to reiterate:  modules damage is calculated completely separately from damage to a ship.  So don't concern yourself with overpenetration / citadel penetration / saturated penetration damage rolls.  They go right out the window.  While modules themselves have hit points, the damage we do to them is based upon a separate value that hasn't been disclosed and is also subject to RNG which can add or subtract to that value up to a certain percentage.  This is why you can sometimes blow up off a Mahan torpedo launcher with just a couple of HE hits one time and then another it takes over thirty hits the next time and it makes you question your own sanity and competence at pointing a gun at a given target.

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Wow, that's not at all what I expected.

 

and

 

Mouse how do you find all the time for this?  You're either crazy productive or you live on another planet with more than 24 hours in a day.

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Wow, that's not at all what I expected.

 

and

 

Mouse how do you find all the time for this?  You're either crazy productive or you live on another planet with more than 24 hours in a day.

 

When I have time to play World of Warships, I usually devote a large portion of that to working on articles rather than progressing my account.

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