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MutsuKaiNi

Second Japanese BB line

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Just thinking about what other IJN BBs could be added into a second line and I think I have a pretty cohesive idea for a second line.

 

Starting from Kongo the line will split with either Fuso or Ise for Tier 6. Hyuga could be added in as hybrid CV if WG ever implements them.

 

Tier 7... only part of the line I'm not sure of what could go here.

 

Tier 8- Tosa, Kaga's unfished sister how she was meant to be as a BB

 

Tier 9- Kii, this might be a stretch but I think the Kii could be a viable tier 9

 

Tier 10- Musashi or Echizen (Project A-150), not sure how much different Musashi could be made so that she isn't just another Yammie, Echizen would have massive firepower (510mm) but with only 6 in total to balance it out.

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WG has said they aren't going to add any guns bigger than Yamato's 46cm guns. 

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Echizen would have massive firepower (510mm) but with only 6 in total to balance it out.

 

What won't it overmatch?

 

No.

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I think what they have now is sound, with a ship like Tosa being made a Tier VIII Premium later down the road.

Theres no need to rush to get every ship of a nation right away, that would stagnate the tree too quickly

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Here's how I'd assume WG would make a second line, and even a third, once they've finished adding in all major lines and start going back and adding line-splits/new lines.

 

Second IJN BB Line "Fast"

T6 - Ise

Since Ise and Hyuuga were mostly improved versions of Fuso and Yamashiro, they should both branch off from Fuso, then give it an original Ise Hull [C] that sees it retain all the AA she had, including the AA rockets, but still in battleship configuration.  She would split off into BBCV Hyuuga, either as a Premium or a middle branch leading into a CV line.

 

T6 Alternate or Premium - BB-65 Alternate Design (6x 356mm guns)

Placed at T6 since she'd be rather similar to Gneisenau in-game, but with 6x356mm (14") guns, torpedoes, and upgraded armor intended to resist 14" guns.  She'd have a 30~31kt speed.  However, traverse would be standard 30s like Kongou and Fuso, thus limiting some of her brawling capabilities.

 

T7 - Probably one of the other upgrade concepts, or failing that, a mixture of different concepts.  I'm partial to an 8x Kongou-successor.  BB-65 9x12" would work, if WG decides to backtrack on their caliber progression statements.  Would make the second line a bit more of a "fast battleship/battlecruiser" line.

 

T7 Premium - BB-65 Original Design "Ishikari", the miniature Yamato (Azumazi did a write up on her using that name)

A superheavy cruiser more along the lines of Scharnhorst and Alaska, outfitted with 9x310mm (12.2") guns.  While a late-war design, she could see minor buffs to keep her competitive at the tier, mainly in soft stats such as RoF, armor, or addition of short-range AA mounts.  Her speed is a major advantage; 33kt planned.

 

T8 - Tosa

As it was a battleship version of Amagi rather than a battlecruiser.  She would be swapped with Amagi in the lines, so that Tosa comes after Nagato, and Amagi being the start of the "faster battleship/battlecruiser" segment.  A fictional refit can see slight buffs to Tosa or [C] hull's main guns, outfitted Izumo's 16" guns (gun and shell performance only; not traverse), with stock being the standard Nagato/Amagi 16" guns as she was designed with.  While Amagi brings speed and firepower alongside cruisers, Tosa would trade speed for armor and more staying firepower.

 

T9 - Kii

As Kii was a fast battleship design and could be considered a straight upgrade from Amagi with some minor fictional upgrades on her final hull (mainly armor, secondaries, AA, and speed).  Interestingly, she'd have above-water torpedo launchers (maybe consider having them moved to deck-mounted or hull mounted like the IJN CAs for greater arcs in a refit hull).  So she'd fit perfectly as an amped up Amagi successor; more HP, better armor, slightly faster or same speed (depending on fictional refit), and also using the same 16" as Izumo Hull [C].  Stock would be the original plan to use the same 16" as Nagato/Amagi.  She'd probably also get a more solidified pagoda like Izumo/Yamato.

 

T10 - Number 13

Another "fast" battleship, but with 18.1" guns (since Japan never produced plain 457mm, only 460mm, and the design had 18" minimum).  Granted, she only has 8x of them.  I'd expect a fictional refit to increase her speed to around 30~32kt, add more Secondary/DP/AA mounts (potentially removing all the casemate 14cm guns) with Izumo and Yamato level base ranges, and presumably have better main gun traverse at 40~45s due to only being dual instead of triple mounts.  Let's assume Izumo-level traverse at 40s w/ standard 30s reload.

 

This would result in a powerful big-gun striker with good secondary attack power for drive-by shooting or self-defense, while also having some speed to bring the big guns into play sooner (as well as get out of danger faster, or maintain and kite mid-long range combat longer).  Armor-wise, she'd probably be weaker than Yamato in general, with a more conventional box citadel and the usual vulnerabilities to open broadsides (leaving her to more likely face off with 4 guns rather than all 8, like most IJN BBs are prone to do when being focused).  She also was designed with above-water torpedo tubes, but could also possibly get it as deck-mounted or CA-style mounted instead in a fictional modernized design, further augmenting her short and mid-range firepower.  She'd also get a more solidified pagoda like Izumo/Yamato as well.

 

Other T8 AlternativesBoth versions could potentially use Izumo's 16" in final form.

Hiraga Kongou replacement concept - 10x 410mm design; 2x dual-turrets and 2x triple-turrets.  Think Kongou, but with everything essential crammed towards the center as much as possible in order to maximize protection, while still having relative straight-line speed.  An 8x design could be considered for T7 based on this as well, if other preliminary designs like B-62 aren't sufficient for T7.  It'd be a fast Nagato in that case.

 

Fujimoto Kongou replacement concept - A miniature Yamato; 3x triple-410mm turrets with a blast shield on the bow to protect the secondary guns mounted way forward.  Though one may as well instead use one of the A-140 design concepts for an alternate T9 in that case (one of the designs also being a Yamato w/ 16" but w/o the secondaries in front).

 

To Summarize:

Original Line & 2nd "Fast" Line
Original Line: Kawachi  —  Myogi  —  Kongou  —  Fusou  —  Nagato  —  Tosa  —  Izumo  —  Yamato
              |       (Swapped)        
2nd "Fast" Line:               Ise T7 Concept Amagi Kii Number 13

 

 


 

A 3rd "Slow" line can split off at T8 from Tosa, and make use of the unused T8 concepts, along with either the all-forward A-140-J0 "Nelson" design or the Fujimoto 1930 design with increased armor (the 16.1" mini-Yamato) for T9, and the T10 being the A-140-J3 16.1" Japanese Montana design.

 

T8 - Kongou Replacement Design

See T8 Alternatives.

 

T9 - A-140-J0/J1 Designs OR Upgraded Fujimoto 1930 Project (9x 410mm designs)

A140-J0/J1 - "Nelson Type" All forward facing battery.  Only issue is that it's practically an Izumo redux, but maybe can downgrade turret traverse for more turret armor.

OR

Upgraded Fujimoto 1930 Project - 410mm Yamato design variant with fictional upgrades made to fit into T9 rather than T8.  Would probably have the standard 30s traverse and make use of the same guns as Izumo, but otherwise be as vanilla a battleship as possible.

 

T10 - A140-J3 (12x 410mm design)

Functionally an extended Yamato with 12x16.1" guns; aka a "Japanese Montana".  Presumably would use Izumo's guns and turrets (or add armor to the turrets and downgrade the traverse to 45s), but otherwise have near-identical secondaries/AA as Yamato herself, barring some additional short-range and medium-range AA due to the longer length or maybe adding a pair of "wing" 155 turrets on both sides of the superstructure (or a second pair; for a total of 6x 155 AP turrets; 3 forward-facing, 3 aft-facing).  The 155 wing turrets are mainly more for balance consideration; since adding more DPs also increases her long-range AA performance considerably (and following history, those would have been replaced with additional DP mounts).  She'd also likely get Yamato's octagonal citadel as well.

 

The alternative to adding the 155s is replacing all the 127mm DP mounts on A-140-J3 with the planned 10cm/65 caliber Type 98 gun mounts that were to go onto Shinano (in her original battleship iteration), but that decreases their effectiveness vs DDs and cruisers (100mm bouncing like crazy unless IFHE is taken) and increases the AA performance (to rival or exceed Montana's).  RoF will be increased accordingly however, and is more likely to start fires like no other when a sheer wall of 100mm HE just comes flying from A-140-J3 (like 3 Akizuki's per side).  Hence, adding the triple 155 turrets is a more preferable option instead; since the replacement to 100mm secondaries boost AA and only slightly weakens her secondary defenses (offset by the sheer RoF); just making A140-J3 flat out superior.

 

Original Line, 2nd "Fast" Line, and 3rd "Slow" Line
"Fast" Line:             Ise T7 Concept Amagi Kii

Number 13

(8x460mm)

              |       (Swapped)        
Original Line: Kawachi  —  Myogi  —  Kongou  —  Fusou  —  Nagato  —  Tosa  —  Izumo  —  Yamato
                      |        
"Slow" Line:                    

T8 Kongou

Replacement Concept

A-140-J0 or J1 "Nelson Type"

OR

Upgraded Fujimoto 1930 Project

A-140-J3

(12x 410mm)

                               
                               

 


 

Last but not least, if BB-65 is used in both her considered formats; the 6x14" version as a line ship and the 12.2" version as a Premium, here's what an adjusted 2nd and 3rd line would look like.  Notable changes is moving Ise to the 2nd "Slow" line and letting BB-65 w/ 6x 14" guns take T6 in the "Fast" line; both splitting off Fuso, or letting B-65 branch off Kongou instead.

 

Alternate "Fast" and "Slow" Lines
"Fast" Line:            

B-65 6x14" Variant

T7 Fast BB Concept

OR

WG Original

Amagi Kii

Number 13

(8x460mm)

            /         (Swapped)        
Original Line: Kawachi  —  Myogi  —  Kongou  —  Fusou  —  Nagato  —  Tosa  —  Izumo  —  Yamato
              |                
"Slow" Line:             Ise

T7 Slow BB Concept

OR

Downgraded Kongou Replacement

T8 Kongou

Replacement Concept

A-140-J0 or J1 "Nelson Type"

OR

Upgraded Fujimoto 1930 Project

A-140-J3

(12x 410mm)

              |                

Single BBCV

Can branch to CV

[If Not Premium]

           

BBCV Hyuga

(As Premium or Line)

[Leads to CV Line]

               

 

 

 

Edited by YamatoA150
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If WG ever make a second IJN BB line it will take a time, they have other bbs lines to do first. But it will certainly be nice. As YamatoA150 said they could do a kind of battlecruiser line, the first line being more tanky and the second one being faster. IJN certainly had lots of battleships/battlecruisers projects so a second line would be possible.

 

And nice work with that line scheme YamatoA150, its really cool. 

 

 

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Owaa. A second Japanese BB line? Hmm, Sounds interesting for me o/

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