Langley's fighters and dogfighting expert: sigh, why do I even bother playing Hosho?

[legoboy0401]

So, I was in my Hosho, right? I know, she's an abysmal ship, but I can't help playing her. I haven't ever grinded fully through her, and I want to finally get to tier VI+ in the IJN CV line. I'm too much a cheapskate to FXP to Zuiho. Besides, Zuiho isn't much better anyway these days. Anyway, the fighters, back when Hosho still had strafe, were okay. Now, they are beyond garbage.

 

The chief problem is, everyone and their mother can fighter lock you against your will, and if it's an USN CV, especially a Langley with Dogfighting expert, you are bound to lose. Worse yet, you only have one complete replacement, and no other fighter squadron, so once you are out you are out. I thought to myself, so all a Langley needs to do to achieve air superiority is just click my fighter squadron, wait for the replacement squadron to arrive, and click it as well?

 

 What is wrong with those people who call this balanced?

 

I can't fight the Langley fighters, as I by default will lose, no question. If he has Dogfighting expert, he won't likely lose even one plane before my miserable fighter squadron is obliterated.

 

If you were wondering, he killed ALL of my planes, and I killed a measly 2. 2! <bangs head on desk> Oh, and by the way, MY FIGHTERS DID NOTHING. NOTHING. His idiotic 6 plane squadron with Dogfighting expert smashed my fighters to pieces in 2 seconds flat.

 

Two questions:

 

A: How the heck in real life would that be possible?

 

and

 

B: how the heck is that considered balanced here in the game?(edit: yes, I know, Langley and the other USN CVs take a long time to get their squads back in the air. Still, my point stands.)

 

In addition, the two plane kills I DID get were from my TORPEDO planes, if only because Dog Crapping Fighting Expert had no effect on them.

 

How the heck do you deal with a Langley in a Hosho?

 

I have 3 possible fixes:

 

Allow Hosho and Zuiho(Zuiho has a similar problem against AS Bogue) and ONLY those two(not including Langley or Bogue) strafe again.

 

Make Dogfighting expert only work for IJN CVs

 

Reduce Langley's fighter health even more, and re-tier her planes as Tier V planes.

 

Any thoughts?

 

Also, now I understand why there have been so many bot CVs around, at least at lower tiers.

 

Feel free to fill out my question in the poll.

[Atom_Alchemist]

just take solice in if the enemy carrier is AS

 

he is 100% useless to his team once he has nullified you.

[legoboy0401]

just take solice in if the enemy carrier is AS

 

he is 100% useless to his team once he has nullified you.

 

Langley has a 1 1 1 loadout. He gets everything.

[Madwolf05]

Have you seen CV balance after Tier 4 and 5? The USN CVs are like 40% win rates from Tier 6 to 10.

[RipNuN2]

You outplay them with positioning, the enemy cv cant have every approach covered. Your TB can wreck havoc before the enemy can respond and this allows you to influence the match more.

[legoboy0401]

Have you seen CV balance after Tier 4 and 5? The USN CVs are like 40% win rates from Tier 6 to 10.

 

Yes. I have, thank you very much. I see Lexingtons regularly and I have seen once or twice an Essex. Wasn't impressed with their pathetic attempts at being CVs in the matches I was in. Shokakus, however, are a welcome sight on my team, and a horrific one on the enemy team. Same with Taiho.

 

My point is, CV balance is severely screwed up everywhere from Langley soloing Hoshos to Hakuryu kicking the crap out of Midways.

[legoboy0401]

You outplay them with positioning, the enemy cv cant have every approach covered. Your TB can wreck havoc before the enemy can respond and this allows you to influence the match more.

 

Most Langleys are too smart for that.

 

They've learned where and how to maximize their air superiority over Hoshos.

[Madwolf05]

 

Langley has a 1 1 1 loadout. He gets everything.

 

Congrats, the USN CVs get 1/1/1 as the base loadout at Tier 6, 7, 8, and not everything in their 9 loadouts until Tier 9. That base loadout only works at 4, and sometimes 6.

[legoboy0401]

 

Congrats, the USN CVs get 1/1/1 as the base loadout at Tier 6, 7, 8, and not everything in their 9 loadouts until Tier 9. That base loadout only works at 4, and sometimes 6.

 

That is literally the only setup Langley gets. Langley never gets anything else. AS bogue is still annoying, but at least she has like 0 striking power whatsoever.

[Madwolf05]

 

Most Langleys are too smart for that.

 

They've learned where and how to maximize their air superiority over Hoshos.

 

Langley's fighters are slower.

[legoboy0401]

 

Langley's fighters are slower.

 

They are. But why then do my Torpedo fighters and Torpedo planes struggle immensely to out run Langley fighters?

 

 

Then again, I think it's an issue of Langley captains being good at surprise jumping Hosho planes.

[legoboy0401]

Perhaps I'm just bad with Hosho. But, I seems to me that the real issue is how good Langley fighters can be against Hosho fighters.

 

Question: Is it worth it to go with the stock fighters on the Hosho to get Dogfighting expert to work v.s. Langleys?

[Madwolf05]

 

They are. But why then do my Torpedo fighters and Torpedo planes struggle immensely to out run Langley fighters?

 

 

Then again, I think it's an issue of Langley captains being good at surprise jumping Hosho planes.

 

Torpedo planes are slow, use your fighters to protect them and tie up the enemy fighters to strike.

 

Your fighters are more for sacrifice to get bombers through.

[legoboy0401]

 

Torpedo planes are slow, use your fighters to protect them and tie up the enemy fighters to strike.

 

Your fighters are more for sacrifice to get bombers through.

 

It doesn't work. As I said, the Langley Fighters chew through my fighters quite fast, but expecially when they use Dogfighting expert, so they chew through my planes so fast they have plenty of time to catch up to my Torpedo planes, which get a VERY tiny lead from the sacrifice of the Fighters.

[RipNuN2]

Put some replays up of your matches if you want advice on how to improve your play on these cv's it's impossible to know otherwise how the enemy is beating your positioning.

[Battlecruiser_Siegfried]

Why does anyone bother playing any carriers?

[Faerkhan]

Get good. If you have problems with Langley, you are just bad at CV. Keep practicing and learn how to spread USN CVs thin, and then you'll be fine. USN CVs are underpowered as all hell right now. Langley and Bogue are the only two that are even competitive.

 

[Madwolf05]

 

It doesn't work. As I said, the Langley Fighters chew through my fighters quite fast, but expecially when they use Dogfighting expert, so they chew through my planes so fast they have plenty of time to catch up to my Torpedo planes, which get a VERY tiny lead from the sacrifice of the Fighters.

 

You realize that dog fighting expert doesn't give a bonus to the Hosho or Langley fighters right? It only gives the upgrade if the aircraft are different Tiers. The Hosho and Langley have the same Tier planes. The only benefit would be 10% ammo.

[StoneRhino]

Hosho's fighters are T5.

 

You beat them and late bogue's by feinting with your fighters and getting them to chase you all over the map. Once your bombers and a big enough window charge in and kill something. Usually the fighters chasing you go after the bombers so fly your fighters to safety. If you do it right he will be chasing his tail all game. Zuiho does it better because with the mod she cycles her bombers faster.

 

If that fails just keep your planes just ahead of your allies and spot for them. If your allies are not dealing with stealth torps and ambushes you are way more likely to win.

[legoboy0401]

 

You realize that dog fighting expert doesn't give a bonus to the Hosho or Langley fighters right? It only gives the upgrade if the aircraft are different Tiers. The Hosho and Langley have the same Tier planes. The only benefit would be 10% ammo.

 

Langley's maximum tier fighters are Tier IV. Hosho goes straight from Tier III Fighters to Tier V fighters.

[Seraphil]

He has one fighter, you have two torpedo bombers.  Split up.  He can only stop one; if you're lucky, you can delay his fighters with yours to give your bombers a free run on your targets.

[HyperFish]

IJN fighters are not meant to go toe to toe with USN fighters.

 

Your fighters are primarily defensive, should only be used against USN DB or TB squads attacking your team.

 

Their speed means they can quickly intercept slower TB and DB squads while outrunning USN fighter squads. If you get a potato USN captain your fighters can kite the USN fighters all over the map, letting your DB and TB squads maul your enemy.

 

It gets much worse when higher tier AA can wipe out your squad faster than an enemy fighter squad can.

[Greenday4537]

The best part of playing American CVs is just trolling Japanese CVs and wrecking all their planes.

[Palladia]

You realize that statistically speaking the Hosho's upper tier of fighters are much better than the Langley's,  right?   But more importantly you realize that having two torpedo bombers is way better than having a torpedo bomber and a dive bomber?  

 

THAT BEING SAID,  I think its pretty stupid that the Langley has such a large advantage overall.  Eighteen planes in the air versus twelve is a pretty big difference.   Nineteen versus thirteen with Air superiority doesn't really help.  We brought that up back when they introduced the changes that destroyed high tier USN CV's and failed to address the imbalance in the entire rest of the system.  

 

Just take some heart in the fact that this is the only tier ((Not counting the premium Saipan)) where the USN have a distinct advantage over the IJN.  I'd rather not have imbalance at all but eh,  not much we can do about it right now.

[legoboy0401]

You realize that statistically speaking the Hosho's upper tier of fighters are much better than the Langley's,  right?   But more importantly you realize that having two torpedo bombers is way better than having a torpedo bomber and a dive bomber?  

 

THAT BEING SAID,  I think its pretty stupid that the Langley has such a large advantage overall.  Eighteen planes in the air versus twelve is a pretty big difference.   Nineteen versus thirteen with Air superiority doesn't really help.  We brought that up back when they introduced the changes that destroyed high tier USN CV's and failed to address the imbalance in the entire rest of the system.  

 

Just take some heart in the fact that this is the only tier ((Not counting the premium Saipan)) where the USN have a distinct advantage over the IJN.  I'd rather not have imbalance at all but eh,  not much we can do about it right now.

 

Actually, Langley can get a maximum of 20 aircraft in the air at once. Remember Air Supremacy affects not only Fighters but Dive Bombers as well.