Why I have a problem with CVs

[Horama]

The only problem I really have with CVs is how much they can influence a match.  Sure, I'm all for CVs having a large influence, but if you get an AFK CV, you may as well just go back to port right there (I have provided a picture of what sparked this thread).  I think that if a CV player is AFK or doesn't load in in the first 3 min (or something similar), a bot takes over.  The bot obviously won't perform as well as a player, but at least it will be something.  Discuss and share your opinions, but please keep it civil.

 

 

As you can see from the picture, the enemy CV did insanely well (about 60% better than second place) due to our AFK CV.

[DoctorMcDerp]

If played correctly, just about any ship can influence a match.  It could be just the same that you end up with that one BB player on 7 kills, or that DD that keeps capping every point.  Every ship carries in it's own way.

[TenguBlade]

Another sky cancer complaint thread...nothing to see here folks.

[Hatework]

Your Bismark wasn't much help either.  AFK ships suck, it's a part of online gaming.

[iHaveNoIntelligence]

Why?

Any other class having 2k base XP is okay but not CV?

[MrDeaf]

If played correctly, just about any ship can influence a match.  It could be just the same that you end up with that one BB player on 7 kills, or that DD that keeps capping every point.  Every ship carries in it's own way.

 

unlike other ships, however, CVs can heavily influence the match with 130 - 180 knot aircraft that can totally shut down any other type of ship/player that can carry.

 

Another sky cancer complaint thread...nothing to see here folks.

 

I think we need more. flood the forums with it. Maybe WG will notice they are totally broken.

 

Why?

Any other class having 2k base XP is okay but not CV?

 

There is WG trickery in that.

WG nerfed the XP/credit earnings of CVs a while back, because they were totally overperforming on those numbers.

However, nerfing XP/credit earnings does not fix the root cause of the problem, so that 2k base XP on a carrier would, in fact, be like 4k base XP for other ships.

[Horama]

Why?

Any other class having 2k base XP is okay but not CV?

 

It is perfectly okay to get 2k exp with a CV.  I mentioned in the original post that I am perfectly okay with CVs being very influential in a match.  My main issue is that they are so influential that when you get an AFK CV, you are almost guaranteed a loss, but there is no system in place to help mitigate the damage an AFK CV can cause to a team.  That is why my proposal was to allow a bot to fill in for the AFK player in order to help with the situation.

[phydaux42]

The difference in skill between a "fair" CV driver and a "good" CV driver is MUCH BIGGER  than the skill difference for any other class.  Moreover, the learning curve is much steeper, so GAINING that higher skill level is much harder.  

 

Now OP is right, in the hands of a good CV driver a carrier can have a HUGE impact in the outcome of a game.  But not all CV drivers are good.  In fact, most AREN'T.  

 

But that, right there, is the problem.  Most players don't live Cvs, and don't play them.  Of the players who DO play them, most play badly.  And that one rare player with a Level 19 Captain in his Tier VI CV, well, he's going to tear a new one in all your ships.  And other than salty QQ about unicrum & potatoes I don't see any possible solution.  Other than removing manual drop all the way to Tier X.  In which case you may never see a CV player ever again.

[aethervox]

 

unlike other ships, however, CVs can heavily influence the match with 130 - 180 knot aircraft that can totally shut down any other type of ship/player that can carry.

 

 

I think we need more. flood the forums with it. Maybe WG will notice they are totally broken.

 

 

There is WG trickery in that.

WG nerfed the XP/credit earnings of CVs a while back, because they were totally overperforming on those numbers.

However, nerfing XP/credit earnings does not fix the root cause of the problem, so that 2k base XP on a carrier would, in fact, be like 4k base XP for other ships.

 

"Incoming enemy planes, Sir!"

"OMFG, the sky is falling" screamed Cpt Chicken Little, "Reverse course, turn around, full astern ...... Abandon Ship!"

[YeOldeTraveller]

For CV drivers that do show up, they get constant complaints in chat about their game play.

 

Most recent for me was from a dead DD that finished 12/12 and a CL that I finally found trying to drive out the NW corner of the map.  He did a bit better at #9 and did survive the battle.

 

Now, I'm sure I could have done better as that was only my 6th battle in Random driving a CV.  I finished the above battle #5 in a losing effort.

[Reymu]

Deal with it. I have a very limited number of attacks, so must choose my targets precisely and line up the circumstances to my advantage before attacking. Ever wonder what a 3-minute reload on your MB looks like?

 

The only reason CV can influence the match is from being able to attack most anywhere on the map while ship itself is safe. We pay for that safety with reload times that'd be excessive to torp DDs. It takes skill and dedication and forethought and other investments to pull it off.

 

Tired of the "omg sky cancer" attitude. They come across as lazy players who do not want to understand the effort, adrenaline, everything that goes into the nasty CV attacks you're so scared of.

[Anuric]

2 hours ago, Reymu said:

Deal with it. I have a very limited number of attacks, so must choose my targets precisely and line up the circumstances to my advantage before attacking. Ever wonder what a 3-minute reload on your MB looks like?

 

The only reason CV can influence the match is from being able to attack most anywhere on the map while ship itself is safe. We pay for that safety with reload times that'd be excessive to torp DDs. It takes skill and dedication and forethought and other investments to pull it off.

 

Tired of the "omg sky cancer" attitude. They come across as lazy players who do not want to understand the effort, adrenaline, everything that goes into the nasty CV attacks you're so scared of.

 

 

Deal with it says the guy hiding behind an island at the far edge of the map.  While I attempt to deploy WASD hacks on a slow rudder shift time BB.  Knowing that there is nothing I can do other than pray my "repair party" is off CD.  You canceled your first attack and repositioned you squadrons knowing I couldn't react again. You just took away 3/4 of my health while the only thing you worry about is your sailors getting a sunburn on the deck.

 

The only team play you can expect in a random battle is from other members of a fleet and if you're on voice coms with them.  So having a cruiser or so stick close for air cover isn't going to happen.  So how then is a BB supposed to stay in a protective bubble?  They aren't going to.  That isn't because they are lazy.  It's because of the style of game play forced upon them.  Especially if you are playing a Tier 3-7 USN BB which only has a max top speed in the low 20 knot range.  A good CV pilot is the finger of God, and has more influence on a random battle than ANY other ship.  That is why the player base views CV's with as much vile as artillery in World of Tanks.

[Hyyena]

All ships can heavly influence the match if his main counter is afk. Its more an afk problem them a CV problem. 

[Reymu]

6 hours ago, Anuric said:

 

 

Deal with it says the guy hiding behind an island at the far edge of the map.  While I attempt to deploy WASD hacks on a slow rudder shift time BB.  Knowing that there is nothing I can do other than pray my "repair party" is off CD.  You canceled your first attack and repositioned you squadrons knowing I couldn't react again. You just took away 3/4 of my health while the only thing you worry about is your sailors getting a sunburn on the deck.

 

The only team play you can expect in a random battle is from other members of a fleet and if you're on voice coms with them.  So having a cruiser or so stick close for air cover isn't going to happen.  So how then is a BB supposed to stay in a protective bubble?  They aren't going to.  That isn't because they are lazy.  It's because of the style of game play forced upon them.  Especially if you are playing a Tier 3-7 USN BB which only has a max top speed in the low 20 knot range.  A good CV pilot is the finger of God, and has more influence on a random battle than ANY other ship.  That is why the player base views CV's with as much vile as artillery in World of Tanks.

 

It's not your game, so learn to adapt and deal with the fact is includes something that offends. I'd prefer a removal of stealth builds from game, make camping less viable, but save for providing material part of WG's financing, nobody can sway the game development with mere posts. Besides, CVs are necessary to spot since stealth builds are that popular.

 

Beating CVs is a straightforward matter of moving as a group and stomping the other team en route to the CV. But most randoms cannot think of such plans, let alone commit. So learn to cut your engine just before the TB commit and quit yoloing. I get bothered by CVs maybe 30% of the time I see them because unlike crybabies, I stay with the team for mutual AA and cut my engine as needed. Takes a dedicated CV to drop me unless I mess up like beaching.

 

After accepting the best I can do is be harder to hit in the first place, I'm not even angry if a CV two tiers above comes and flattens me. I just joke about being picked on and if it was a good drop, congratulate him. The CV player is part of the community, and everyone would do well to remember that.

[crzyhawk]

9 hours ago, Reymu said:

Deal with it. I have a very limited number of attacks, so must choose my targets precisely and line up the circumstances to my advantage before attacking. Ever wonder what a 3-minute reload on your MB looks like?

 

The only reason CV can influence the match is from being able to attack most anywhere on the map while ship itself is safe. We pay for that safety with reload times that'd be excessive to torp DDs. It takes skill and dedication and forethought and other investments to pull it off.

 

Tired of the "omg sky cancer" attitude. They come across as lazy players who do not want to understand the effort, adrenaline, everything that goes into the nasty CV attacks you're so scared of.

I don't like your sky cancer, so you can deal with the threads.  I'm not afraid of them, I just do not enjoy how they impact the game.  I do not like playing against them, unlike every other kind of ship.  I hope CVs get more nerfs and I fully expect they will.  I will gloat when it happens, and I hope you enjoy that too.

[Reymu]

2 minutes ago, crzyhawk said:

I don't like your sky cancer, so you can deal with the threads.  I'm not afraid of them, I just do not enjoy how they impact the game.  I do not like playing against them, unlike every other kind of ship.  I hope CVs get more nerfs and I fully expect they will.  I will gloat when it happens, and I hope you enjoy that too.

 

Threads like this are hilarious because these whiners are showing they excel at crying, not anti-CV tactics. Not all CV captains are competent; last night's Taiho match I did shy of 120K damage (choosing targets for winning match, not damage) and kept the enemy Taiho struggling to do any meaningful damage. Ended up managing to carry my team with fighter escort and spotting, and ensured my team brought down an NO that used DF and AA-specced NC, not to mention preventing an AA-specced Neptune from being very effective. Opposing Taiho wouldn't spend his planes as well, and came out with about 451 base XP to my 1450.

 

All the other team had to do was focus down my team one ship at a time, combined with air attacks, and they could have won. They didn't push, and so I was able to help turn the battle around. Prolonged battles work best for CVs given our long reload times.

 

Right now CV needs a rework to allow more manual interaction. AA's all RNG and that seems the main issue, though of course some of the anti-CV whiners want AA build buffs without speccing for it.

[StoneRhino]

28 minutes ago, crzyhawk said:

I don't like your sky cancer, so you can deal with the threads.  I'm not afraid of them, I just do not enjoy how they impact the game.  I do not like playing against them, unlike every other kind of ship.  I hope CVs get more nerfs and I fully expect they will.  I will gloat when it happens, and I hope you enjoy that too.

They are nerfing USN dive bomber fire chance.  They are reducing it to zero and adding the chance to citadel you with AP bombs.  So sad, what will I ever do without my chance to stack useless dots on a target.

[aethervox]

15 hours ago, crzyhawk said:

I don't like your sky cancer, so you can deal with the threads.  I'm not afraid of them, I just do not enjoy how they impact the game.  I do not like playing against them, unlike every other kind of ship.  I hope CVs get more nerfs and I fully expect they will.  I will gloat when it happens, and I hope you enjoy that too.

I can hardly wait to 'impact' you with one of my CVs. I will gloat when your ship sinks. I hope you enjoy that (I know I will).

[aethervox]

I don't have any problems with CVs, no more than any other enemy ship class.

[crzyhawk]

6 hours ago, aethervox said:

I can hardly wait to 'impact' you with one of my CVs. I will gloat when your ship sinks. I hope you enjoy that (I know I will).

I'm sure you will.  If you can hit me.  I said I don't enjoy dodging bombers, not that I can't do it. 

In the mean time, I will definitely be enjoying every nerf that hits CVs.  They've only been headed in one direction since CBT, and there's no reason to think that train will ever stop.  Until CVs are interesting to encounter in a battle, there will be cries for nerfs.  Those cries will always outnumber CV players, and thus CVs will continue to be beaten with the nerf bat until people don't have a reason to hate them anymore.

 

 

[crzyhawk]

21 hours ago, StoneRhino said:

They are nerfing USN dive bomber fire chance.  They are reducing it to zero and adding the chance to citadel you with AP bombs.  So sad, what will I ever do without my chance to stack useless dots on a target.

I can't imagine any CV driver actually picking AP bombs over HE, if given a choice.  HE is good vs every target, AP will be situational, and STILL do less damage than HE unless a citadel is hit. 

[crzyhawk]

22 hours ago, Reymu said:

 

Right now CV needs a rework to allow more manual interaction. AA's all RNG and that seems the main issue, though of course some of the anti-CV whiners want AA build buffs without speccing for it.

I personally think that BFT and AFT need to be changed to secondaries only.  New skills should be added for AABFT and AAAFT to impact AA only.  I don't think that it's right that a German battleship gets to spec for killer secondaries and get sweet AA for free.  They should have to pick one or the other.

 

CV hate would be much less if CVs struck each other.  Yes, I know why they don't, but every time you bring a CV into a match, you are using your team as shields to get farmed on, while you are farming the other team.  CV's play their own game, and generally screw their team over to do it.  The only exception to this is the much hated AS CV...hated by other CV players more than their teammates.  I try to give AS CVs on my team compliments because I know they take crap from other CV players for their "cancerous choice".  CV players think it's OK for them to wreck other people's games, but get all offended when people wreck theirs.

Surely you can understand why this prompts anti-CV sentiment.

[Reymu]

2 minutes ago, crzyhawk said:

I personally think that BFT and AFT need to be changed to secondaries only.  New skills should be added for AABFT and AAAFT to impact AA only.  I don't think that it's right that a German battleship gets to spec for killer secondaries and get sweet AA for free.  They should have to pick one or the other.

 

CV hate would be much less if CVs struck each other.  Yes, I know why they don't, but every time you bring a CV into a match, you are using your team as shields to get farmed on, while you are farming the other team.  CV's play their own game, and generally screw their team over to do it.  The only exception to this is the much hated AS CV...hated by other CV players more than their teammates.  I try to give AS CVs on my team compliments because I know they take crap from other CV players for their "cancerous choice".  CV players think it's OK for them to wreck other people's games, but get all offended when people wreck theirs.

Surely you can understand why this prompts anti-CV sentiment.

I don't see extra skill points for captains coming unless the change is specifically BFT for secondaries (MB for DD) or AA, ditto for AFT. Also suspect that change, without reasonable compensation, will get flak from everyone that's used to all the buffs.

 

Yes I can see that. Thing is those anti-CV players are getting worked up about things they are powerless to stop outside of grouping for AA, and they do not appear willing to say how many times out of 50 encounters the the grouped AA was less effective and why. Right now that's the design working well, between alpha strikes, DoT on key enemy players, or fighter cover. Suspect they're the same players that cry about snipers in FPS games because they want to brawl, not have to outthink the shadow 500 meters away. Regardless, there are tactics and whatnot to make the arty guy work to bring you down or waste resources and time trying.

 

I've mentioned before in other threads DF on T8-10 CVs needs a partial nerf. 2min of buffed AA and panic at 3km makes significant damage or sniping impractical. I simply want the CV's DF to be available only for first 10 minutes (shorter?), then afterwards the DF is discarded. This way a CV snipe can happen, with US CVs having the AA DPS advantage and IJN the squadron number edge,

 

Right now CV sniping is limited to T6-7, in my experience, especially with duo CVs. Perhaps giving a free container, free XP, some sort of rewards boost besides the uncontested airspace, along with the aforementioned DF change, would nudge CVs to try sniping more?

[crzyhawk]

I do not see the captain skill changing either.  I just think it should be done.  It's not right to spec secondaries and get uber AA for free, a choice should be made.

If I had ONE nerf just ONE that I could get passed on CVs and if agreed to, forever cease complaining about CVs, it would be multiple TB squadrons.  Now, as annoying as it is, to continually have to turn turn turn into TBers, only for them to manage to strike from the side regardless, it bothers me far less than being cross dropped by a skillful commander.  If you catch me sleeping and hit me from a single side fine, I can live with that.  Cross drops that are /not/ dodgeable, are wrong, and most honest CV drivers will admit that a /proper/ crossdrop is going to land at least one torpedo.

[StoneRhino]

22 minutes ago, crzyhawk said:

I can't imagine any CV driver actually picking AP bombs over HE, if given a choice.  HE is good vs every target, AP will be situational, and STILL do less damage than HE unless a citadel is hit. 

For enterprise maybe. One shotting a fuso with 10-12 bombs meh. However a strike ranger would be dropping 21 bombs and an AS ranger would be dropping 14. An AS ranger with an alpha damage threat is kind of scary for bbs