A potential solution to the radar debacle

[bubbleboy264]

I'm sure you are all aware of the infamous thread Stannis Baratheon started a few days ago. I agree that radar is a seriously flawed mechanic, and as a US DD player it's super frustrating to do my job of cappping and then get radared, and when I die or lose 2/3rds of my hp I get blamed and called a noob, despite me doing my fricking job as far as I know. People need to see it from the DDs perspective too. No other class has to deal with as many counters (radar, hydro, aircraft, etc). I love destroyers, and the high risk high reward style of gameplay is unique. But the risk is too much now in my opinion. Radar shouldn't be removed, but it should be nerfed. A good idea is to give a notification if you are in the range of a radar cruiser, like the notification you get if RPF is targeting you. And radar shouldn't magically go through islands, that's not even how it works in real life. And it's cool down should be increased, right now it's higher than the cool down for smokes often. It should be used situationally and you have to time it right, like the torp reload booster on Japanese DDs, since frankly it's just as powerful as that. Radar is honestly just spammed sometimes. It shouldn't be. It has a role, and it shouldn't be removed, but it has to be nerfed. Just my two cents.

[sbcptnitro]

Just stating that something "should be nerfed" isn't much of a solution.

 

To your point, yes, playing DDs is a much different game these days. Rushing into caps is a thing of the past, and what really needs to happen is for the rest of the team to recognize that and not get all pissed at the DDs for holding back when the enemy team has 3 DMs and a Moskva.

[Cruxdei]

from the ST stats "leaked" in that site.

WG thought british ships would need radar because they are made of citadels,kill the enemy before they hit you,and if they hit you,you better pray they die before you die.

[Carrier_Ikoma]

As DDs are still the most powerful class, where games and won or lost as their team's DDs live or die, I don't particularly see the need to nerf counter mechanics. That said...

 

People need to see it from the DDs perspective too.

 

​This could go for all classes, really. Everyone expects everyone else to be able to do everything, without seeming to realize there might be counters in play or other good reasons for not doing whatever they're angry about...

 

from the ST stats "leaked" in that site.

WG thought british ships would need radar because they are made of citadels,kill the enemy before they hit you,and if they hit you,you better pray they die before you die.

 

​The only thing that's known about this is WG internally tested radar as a loadout option. What the final ship loadouts will be is still undecided. (See the recent dev q&a)

 

 

[Kapitan_Wuff]

[Lert]

There is a radar debacle?

[twitch133]

Radar is fine. It always has been. 

 

The only change that I can see making to it is to remove its ability to see through islands.

 

If you cannot work around radar. And are incapable or unwilling to learn how to. You should not be playing any DD's or RN cruisers.

[Umikami]

As DDs are still the most powerful class, where games and won or lost as their team's DDs live or die, I don't particularly see the need to nerf counter mechanics. That said...

 

 

​This could go for all classes, really. Everyone expects everyone else to be able to do everything, without seeming to realize there might be counters in play or other good reasons for not doing whatever they're angry about...

 

 

​The only thing that's known about this is WG internally tested radar as a loadout option. What the final ship loadouts will be is still undecided. (See the recent dev q&a)

 

 

 

"As DD's are the most powerful class" ... always helpful to start out a post with a blatant lie.

DD's are NOT the most powerful ships in the game, and in fact have a poor survival rate across the boards.

(in fact, out of the top 50 survivable ships, only 3 are DD's: Flint, Black, and Khab; 2 reward prems and the most blatantly OP ship in the game)

WoW has "tested" many things in-house that turned out to be total crap when implemented in the game; anyone remember invisifire?

As far as in-game goes, DD's need to have their AA returned to CBT levels, and radar needs to be fixed, or eliminated.

[IronWolfV]

I'm sure you are all aware of the infamous thread Stannis Baratheon started a few days ago. I agree that radar is a seriously flawed mechanic, and as a US DD player it's super frustrating to do my job of cappping and then get radared, and when I die or lose 2/3rds of my hp I get blamed and called a noob, despite me doing my fricking job as far as I know. People need to see it from the DDs perspective too. No other class has to deal with as many counters (radar, hydro, aircraft, etc). I love destroyers, and the high risk high reward style of gameplay is unique. But the risk is too much now in my opinion. Radar shouldn't be removed, but it should be nerfed. A good idea is to give a notification if you are in the range of a radar cruiser, like the notification you get if RPF is targeting you. And radar shouldn't magically go through islands, that's not even how it works in real life. And it's cool down should be increased, right now it's higher than the cool down for smokes often. It should be used situationally and you have to time it right, like the torp reload booster on Japanese DDs, since frankly it's just as powerful as that. Radar is honestly just spammed sometimes. It shouldn't be. It has a role, and it shouldn't be removed, but it has to be nerfed. Just my two cents.

No on the cooldown. You do realize your smoke lasts 3 times as long as radar.

Second, you do get a notification, look at your spotted icon, a smaller icon pops up letting you know you're spotted by Radar or Hydro. Same way a small plane icon pops up letting you know a plane has you spotted.

Third. Only thing I agree with is radar and hydro not working through land masses.

 

So 1 of them, no, second exists, third I agree.

[Carrier_Ikoma]

 

"As DD's are the most powerful class" ... always helpful to start out a post with a blatant lie.

DD's are NOT the most powerful ships in the game, and in fact have a poor survival rate across the boards.

(in fact, out of the top 50 survivable ships, only 3 are DD's: Flint, Black, and Khab; 2 reward prems and the most blatantly OP ship in the game)

WoW has "tested" many things in-house that turned out to be total crap when implemented in the game; anyone remember invisifire?

As far as in-game goes, DD's need to have their AA returned to CBT levels, and radar needs to be fixed, or eliminated.

 

Go on warships today or whatever statistics website you prefer. Go look at what the top players are playing. (As a preview... it's a mix of cruiser mains and DD mains. Used to be dominated by DD mains, it's better now, but they're still up there.)

 

Survival rate has nothing to do with how powerful a ship is.

[Mesrith]

Radar is part of the game.  It's not going away.  I'd appreciate it if WG could implement line of sight so that radar and sonar don't go through islands, but that's the only game-based change that needs to occur.

 

The real change that's needed is for all these self-declared "destroyer mains" to stop acting like this is an old-school MMORPG and you're compelled to spend all of your time playing one thing.  It's not; you can easily spend some time playing other ship types, and if you did that (especially at tier 8 and above), you'd probably have a better understanding for why radar is a valuable game mechanic.  Adapt to the game that exists, admit to yourself that your own stubborn mediocrity is what's getting you killed, and learn how to play around radar like every non-terrible destroyer player has for the past year or more.  I understand that there's a loud, vocal forum minority that wants to play super-stealth destroyer (submarine) and never be spotted or have to interact with other ships in this 12v12 game, but that time is gone.

 

 

 

[MrDeaf]

Why would radar be a debacle now, when it has been working just fine for quite some time?

[1nv4d3rZ1m]

Why would radar be a debacle now, when it has been working just fine for quite some time?

 

Because some people are back after spending a long time away from the game. 

[Canadatron]

No on the cooldown. You do realize your smoke lasts 3 times as long as radar.

Second, you do get a notification, look at your spotted icon, a smaller icon pops up letting you know you're spotted by Radar or Hydro. Same way a small plane icon pops up letting you know a plane has you spotted.

Third. Only thing I agree with is radar and hydro not working through land masses.

 

So 1 of them, no, second exists, third I agree.

 

You do realise that radar is on a faster cool down than smoke too Right? I know it doesn't fit into your position so you wouldn't mention it.

 

DD play isn't in a good place. Pretend it isn't, you're not doing the game any favours.

[Mesrith]

Because some people are back after spending a long time away from the game. 

 

I hadn't really noticed how much better the forums were a few months ago, before 2-3 prominent complainers decided to pick up the game (or at least, the forums) again.  I wish I'd savored it when I had the chance.

[Skyfaller]

I'm sure you are all aware of the infamous thread Stannis Baratheon started a few days ago. I agree that radar is a seriously flawed mechanic, and as a US DD player it's super frustrating to do my job of cappping and then get radared, and when I die or lose 2/3rds of my hp I get blamed and called a noob, despite me doing my fricking job as far as I know. People need to see it from the DDs perspective too. No other class has to deal with as many counters (radar, hydro, aircraft, etc). I love destroyers, and the high risk high reward style of gameplay is unique. But the risk is too much now in my opinion. Radar shouldn't be removed, but it should be nerfed. A good idea is to give a notification if you are in the range of a radar cruiser, like the notification you get if RPF is targeting you. And radar shouldn't magically go through islands, that's not even how it works in real life. And it's cool down should be increased, right now it's higher than the cool down for smokes often. It should be used situationally and you have to time it right, like the torp reload booster on Japanese DDs, since frankly it's just as powerful as that. Radar is honestly just spammed sometimes. It shouldn't be. It has a role, and it shouldn't be removed, but it has to be nerfed. Just my two cents.

 

The only thing WG has to do is add freaking LOS blockage to radar detection. The only reason radar is so stupidly OP is because ships can park behind an island and switch the thing on and exploit the F out of it by revealing ships behind the island and gaining 'assist' damage xp/creds by doing so. 

 

There is nothing wrong with radar revealing DDs when there is LOS... because there is no radar that has longer range than the detection range of the cruiser hence a DD is just dumb if he gets spotted by a radar cruiser given he will see the cruiser much further away than the radar detection range. There is nothing wrong with cruisers using DD's smoke to hide and turning on their radar..because they too can be revealed by radar from the other side when inside smoke. 

 

But there is a LOT of wrong with radar having no LOS blockage. Its just exploiting pure and simple and you see this every single map with radar cruisers rushing to beach themselves behind an island closest to a cap point and flipping the thing on. 

[MorbidGamer]

Radar is easy to deal with. So it is fine.

 

 

[Defender]

There is a radar debacle?

 

^^^

[yashma]

 

You do realise that radar is on a faster cool down than smoke too Right? I know it doesn't fit into your position so you wouldn't mention it.

And I could accuse you of the same thing.  The cool down on the smoke consumable starts while the smoke is still active, while the radar cool down only stats after the radar has been finished.  This means that the time a DD has to go with out smoke is far shorter than the time a cruiser has to go with out radar.

[IronWolfV]

 

You do realise that radar is on a faster cool down than smoke too Right? I know it doesn't fit into your position so you wouldn't mention it.

 

DD play isn't in a good place. Pretend it isn't, you're not doing the game any favours.

That isn't due to radar. That's due to unjust nerfs for IJN, hysterical arcs for USN, hydro, vigilance and radar.

 

Stop blaming 1 mechanic for the problems of a whole heap of bad decisions. Mkay?

[1nv4d3rZ1m]

 

I hadn't really noticed how much better the forums were a few months ago, before 2-3 prominent complainers decided to pick up the game (or at least, the forums) again.  I wish I'd savored it when I had the chance.

 

The latest "debacle" is basically a poor play that got a dd punished by radar. Instead of being open to other moves that may have resulted in a better outcome the player claims he made the best play possible and didnt make any mistakes. Sounds an awful lot like some other groups of players that DD mains made a nickname for.....

[HMCS_Devilfish]

I love my Belfast radar... no debacle here

[Canadatron]

 

The latest "debacle" is basically a poor play that got a dd punished by radar. Instead of being open to other moves that may have resulted in a better outcome the player claims he made the best play possible and didnt make any mistakes. Sounds an awful lot like some other groups of players that DD mains made a nickname for.....

And the behaviour/practice is SO helpful in furthering discussions on improving the game you've decided to keep it alive, correct? 

Radar needs it's tweaks just like many aspects of the game. Too often idiotic reactionary/inflammatory statements just serve to distract people from actually discussing improvements in the game.

This game has balance issues. FULL STOP. That statement is true regardless of class affiliation.

[Psicopro]

Radar should not see through rocks.  I should have the ability through smart positioning to hide behind an island and the radar cruiser not know I am there.  

 

That would give me an option to not be detected.  Radar through smoke is fine, it is a smoke counter and without it smoke would be a full time I Win button.  Do not enter the cap right away till you identify where the radar ships are OR have enough backup to make that radar cruiser sorry he showed up within 10km of you in the first place.

 

Talking as a guy who plays the Gearing a lot.

[IronWolfV]

And the behaviour/practice is SO helpful in furthering discussions on improving the game you've decided to keep it alive, correct? 

Radar needs it's tweaks just like many aspects of the game. Too often idiotic reactionary/inflammatory statements just serve to distract people from actually discussing improvements in the game.

This game has balance issues. FULL STOP. That statement is true regardless of class affiliation.

And you can't sit there and blame the ONLY mechanic that gives a cruiser a chance of equalizing the odds. Cause as I've said before, only cruisers that stand a chance without radar to dig a DD out of smoke is the IJN because of their longer range torps. Everyone else either has to disengage and run or blindly charge and likely die doing it to either said DD or his buddies behind him.

 

Without radar, way too much initiative and the ability to dictate terms of engagement as they see fit lays in the hands of DDs. Sorry, something is needed to equalize that some. Radar is it since carriers got driven almost completely out of the game by DD and BB players.