Broken Strafe.

[danojaye]

Seriously? A Saipan can break off an engagement then strafe away a whole squad of planes without any penalties or fighter losses? All while the other players planes have to just sit there and be defenseless?!?!? 4 times in one game!!!

 

This is rubbish Wargaming!

 

Its bad enough that for the last year WarGaming has been promising a ' fix ' for Carriers and havent done a damn thing outside of releasing 4 or 5 new lines of ships with new Nation.. while leaving something broken and ) apparently ) giving it no ( apparent ) attention at all.

 

They will release a ' premium ' though to line their pockets.

[saagri]

Hm, second thread created about this topic today in just a few hours... 

[Teahee]

_{Spot the player who got outplayed and now is coming to the forum to vent...}

 

 

On a serious note, the Saipan's ability is probably too strong, however with only 3 planes per squad, the alternative would make it too weak. WG chose to make the Saipan stronger, rather than changing it to become significantly weaker (and angering every Saipan owner).

 

The Saipan is definitely strong, and is brutal when in capable hands, but it is not a "pay to win button", nor is it immune to counterplays. The Saipan has weaknesses, and it can be outplayed. Instead of ranting on the forum, chose to improve your gameplay to a level where you CAN outplay an enemy Saipan. There are a number of ways you can outplay a Saipan - even if it is captained by a skilled player.

 

1. Counterstrafe. Saipan only has 3 or 4 planes per fighter squad - the least of any CV. Removing 1 or 2 fighters in a strafe is a big loss for the Saipan. 
2. Head on strafes. The Saipan is very weak at strafing head on at approaching planes due to the small squad size. Use this to your advantage. If you both strafe head on, you will come out on top if you are in the Hiryu, or better yet, the Ranger.
3. Bait and switch. Some Saipan players get overconfident in their ability to strafe. If you can bait out their strafe, dodge it and then either strafe them from behind, or just click them for free damage. You can also waste a huge amount of their ammo by doing this - remember, a fighter with no ammo cannot strafe out.
4. Pawn Bait. Use one of your dive bombers, and drop the payload to make them faster. Charge it at the enemy Saipan and feint an attack run on his CV, and watch as he fumbles to get his fighters to chase it down. Lead his fighters on a wild goose chase while you go ahead and bomb his team. 

 

There are many, many more strategies you can use against a Saipan. It may be strong, but it is not unbeatable, and it is most definitely not an instant win button. You can outplay it, and you can beat it. You just have to learn how. 

 

 

[danojaye]

Spot the player who got outplayed and now is coming to the forum to vent..

 

And again, its always snide remarks..

 

I have a Saipan and maybe I should have been more specific in that ANY fighter squad can do this. Lock-up, disengage then strafe away while the other fighter group hasnt a chance to do ANYTHING as they are PAUSED.

 

Its a Broken mechanic that was introduced and shouldnt have been entered into the game.

 

You stated "  It may be strong, but it is not unbeatable, and it is most definitely not an instant win button. You can outplay it, and you can beat it. You just have to learn how. "

 

How do you do ANYTHING when your planes cant move? 

 

You offered all kinds of solutions or ' strategies ' but never address ( as you didnt in your response ) the original issue. Why is it one squad gets put on hold while the other is free to just kill everything?

[cometguy]

I think the best solution would be to have the Saipan have to use a lot of ammo to strafe out, rather than lose a plane. Saipan planes being strong is fine with me, Saipan not losing planes on strafing out is fine by me. The problem is that they have so much ammo, that they can occupy 100% of your attention for a long time, which really impacts a class built on micromanaging a lot of things.

[danojaye]

I think the best solution would be to have the Saipan have to use a lot of ammo to strafe out, rather than lose a plane. Saipan planes being strong is fine with me, Saipan not losing planes on strafing out is fine by me. The problem is that they have so much ammo, that they can occupy 100% of your attention for a long time, which really impacts a class built on micromanaging a lot of things.

 

Its not just the Saipan. I now regret using it as an example.

 

Whats wrong is if 2 fighter squads lock-up, one can break off and then strafe away the other while the one being strafed cannot do anything.

 

[cometguy]

 

Its not just the Saipan. I now regret using it as an example.

 

Whats wrong is if 2 fighter squads lock-up, one can break off and then strafe away the other while the one being strafed cannot do anything.

 

Nah, I think that was a good change. The fighters locked in place aren't locked long enough for the enemy fighters to disengage then strafe them while they're locked. So it's really only an issue when a second fighter squadron is approaching, so they strafe and strafe out of the dogfight to get clear of their own strafe. But for that, you just have to be the one to strafe out first. So they either have to cancel the incoming strafe, or they get their own planes.

[OscarMike_]

The strategy behind good IJN CV play is not to win the fighter battles.  The key is to simply lock up the US fighters to allow for IJN strikes.

 

Now, saying that.  No US carrier has the upper hand in this, except Saipan.  Any good IJN cv players does this in regular CV play.  They lock the US fighters, then strike.  It is honestly an EZ and quick way to be efficient and have a productive game.  I am personally not in any hurry to add Saipan to this list of being over ran like all other US carriers.

 

IJN CV's have the advantage in every aspect, lets give Saipan a pass as its the only US carrier worth playing right now.

[GIGABlTE]

Or learn to play against this tactic. I break my fighters out all the time using this on all my carriers.

[crazyquest]

If you know what key combinations to use and if you time it correctly you can force your fighters to immediately strafe an enemy squadron that has started a strafe out of combat, but I've only seen it been done by a couple of unicum hiryu players.

[Simbacca]

Honestly strafe should be removed. The mechanic as it stands makes no sense, as the strafing fighters are literally shooting at 3 different elevations at the same time (dive bomber is the highest, then fighter, then torpedo bomber). Should be something like light AA suppression as the ALT fire.

[Fuyukaze]

On 6/14/2017 at 7:58 AM, Simbacca said:

Honestly strafe should be removed. The mechanic as it stands makes no sense, as the strafing fighters are literally shooting at 3 different elevations at the same time (dive bomber is the highest, then fighter, then torpedo bomber). Should be something like light AA suppression as the ALT fire.

 

Removal of strafing is one matter but what would you propose to replace it to ensure there is still some aspect of skills involved to counter enemy fighters? 

 

[Simbacca]

On 2017-06-17 at 6:43 PM, Fuyukaze said:

 

Removal of strafing is one matter but what would you propose to replace it to ensure there is still some aspect of skills involved to counter enemy fighters? 

 

The issue at hand is generally fighter ALT attacks would not be limited to other fighters, but all aircraft. And then the ALT attack stacks especially with the side with more fighters in the sky.