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Im confused about Ryujo

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 While I was playing Hosho and Zuiho I felt like cvs were the strongest ships in their tier...

 

 Now I played a couple of matchs with ryujo (its not full upgraded yet) and Im a bit confused, it´s like much harder to do high damage and my planes die pretty easily. maybe its just that there too many hoods and clevelands in my games or maybe im something wrong... the point is im not sure if ryujo is suppose to deal high damage

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The skill level of CVs increases alot as you move up in tier. AA becomes much more effective on ships starting around t6. But, you now have access to manual drops and strafes at t6

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 qzt2kav.png

 

What's to be confused about? 

 

In all seriousness, now that manual dropping and strafing are available to you, you've gained a lot of versatility.

 

Our forum flattop is asleep so I'm filling in.:hiding:

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The skill level of CVs increases alot as you move up in tier. AA becomes much more effective on ships starting around t6. But, you now have access to manual drops and strafes at t6

 

As a CV player who does not manual drop... almost to the T9 Taiho, I have maintained about a 55% WR on all carriers.  In higher tiers it is necessary to examine the AA values of your opponents, and play defensively until the weaker targets become available.  Also, move toward droppping everything you got on those targets at the same time by staging attack aircraft after launch, at one allied ship, so that if they have good AA commander skills, you will not be wiiped out on all fronts.  No matter what, at all levels, the enemy will always occasionally send its fighters at you when you are superior so take advantage whenever you can.. by using allied AA fire.  Another important point for all CVs except the pure strikers... is that scouting is incredibly important to your team.  If you have a good team and scout well  you can beat an average opposing team with a great manual strike carrier.

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 qzt2kav.png

 

What's to be confused about? 

 

 

 

A girl that has ship parts in her body is pretty confusing... but manual drop seems pretty cool for torps... cant say the same about dive bombers manual drop, it require so much atention

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After Bogue, Ryujo was my second carrier.

 

Things are a lot tougher than they were back in early 2016 though; a lot more AA, a lot more DF, (defensive fire,) Saipan, and did I mention a lot more AA?

 

Ryujo can do a lot of damage, it's just harder to do that than it used to be.

 

In all honesty? Forget about playing carriers in Randoms and just play them in co-op. Too many ships with crazy high AA, DF, rudder shift that can just about beat even a manual drop on most ships,  the solution to the above pretty much being 'do nothing but spot for half the game until the herd thins...) and constantly gettin up-tiered. To me that pretty much means it's not worth the grief and frustration playing CVs in randoms any more.

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I can not advocate against co op enough. Your torpedo bombers are the same as stock shokaku at tier 8. 

 

Just remember your fighters are paper and also remember and AS independence is just t tier 6 bogue and you'll have no problems

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I can not advocate against co op enough. Your torpedo bombers are the same as stock shokaku at tier 8. 

 

Just remember your fighters are paper and also remember and AS independence is just t tier 6 bogue and you'll have no problems

 

​Your torpedos bombers are the same as stock shokaku should not be a testament of how good they are but how long you stay stuck with those awful bombers. While they do fine at T6, it's really bad to be stuck with them at tier 7 and 8, T6 is where you get dropped out of your protective shell. You no longer have protected MM and no worry of strafe. You will have to learn manual drop and only target solo ships with bad AA. Basically picking your targets and waiting if no targets are available.

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So rather than learn how to use them against high AA targets you think it is more productive to sit around and complain about them.

Same TBs vs Tier 9 German BB 1 plane loss.

 

1Mmoxwr.jpg

Same TBs vs Bayern no plane loss

bbkiDPC.jpg

Same TBs vs NC no plane loss

gIUqvl4.jpg

Same TBs vs Clevelands one 4 plane loss and one vs X2 clevelands 1 plane loss

2khKNEQ.jpg

Vi7wR5Z.jpg

I'm not even that good of a CV player...

Edited by StoneRhino

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yeah it seems that you have to wait a very good opportunity (although I dont know if it a good idea to wait until min 13 to make the first attack lol)  or pay with lots of planes (well ryujo has many in reserve), oh well

 

not like its not balanced, it makes perfect sense...

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True sometimes it does mean waiting for a good opportunity. Sometimes when your bottom tier against a lot of high AA ships it's better to hold your bombers back until some of those AA mounts get knocked out. Every game is a little different and you have to adjust your gameplay accordingly.

 

That being said there have been more than a few players that have made the ryujo work. So it's an issue of learning what makes them work and doing that, then doing it all of the next tier and the beginning of the tier after that.

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I actually did not struggle with CV play until I hit tier7 with HIryu.   I agree that AA improvements of ships at higher tiers make CV play much more difficult.  I would advise you to select your targets carefully at higher tier contests.  I was able to really punish the Bismarck in a recent match.  He had moved into an area of the map that had many small islands and was forced to slow down to maneuver through the area.   I used four squadrons of torp/DBs to hammer him hard.  As SoneRhino stared, you just need to be more patient and look for targets of opportunity as you get higher tier CVs.  If you just fly around not paying attention to the ships in your area, your planes will get chewed up badly by AA or straffing attacks by enemy fighters.  I hold my bombers over ships with strong AA on my team and wait for a good target to present itself.

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On 6/1/2017 at 4:11 PM, StoneRhino said:

So rather than learn how to use them against high AA targets you think it is more productive to sit around and complain about them.

Same TBs vs Tier 9 German BB 1 plane loss.

 

  Reveal hidden contents

1Mmoxwr.jpg

Same TBs vs Bayern no plane loss

  Reveal hidden contents

bbkiDPC.jpg

Same TBs vs NC no plane loss

  Reveal hidden contents

gIUqvl4.jpg

Same TBs vs Clevelands one 4 plane loss and one vs X2 clevelands 1 plane loss

  Reveal hidden contents

2khKNEQ.jpg

  Reveal hidden contents

Vi7wR5Z.jpg

I'm not even that good of a CV player...

NO.  Stonerhino,  stop this nonsense right the frick now.  You are either being purposefully misleading or are otherwise ignorant of game mechanics but I can not let this slide either way.  Under normal circumstances making a run on an NC will murder you,  period.  Same with the Cleveland.  The Bayern under normal circumstances is still going to be damaging.  What you are showing is absolutely optimal situations where the enemies AA has been blasted off or they are otherwise occupied or,  for some weird reason,  off.  What you are portraying is NOT A NORMAL ATTACK RUN.  Do not try to pass them off as such,  and do not act like under normal circumstances the T6 bombers of the IJN line are going to be fine when going against AA heavy ships.

Good god,  I should not be having to point this out.

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5 minutes ago, Palladia said:

NO.  Stonerhino,  stop this nonsense right the frick now.  You are either being purposefully misleading or are otherwise ignorant of game mechanics but I can not let this slide either way.  Under normal circumstances making a run on an NC will murder you,  period.  Same with the Cleveland.  The Bayern under normal circumstances is still going to be damaging.  What you are showing is absolutely optimal situations where the enemies AA has been blasted off or they are otherwise occupied or,  for some weird reason,  off.  What you are portraying is NOT A NORMAL ATTACK RUN.  Do not try to pass them off as such,  and do not act like under normal circumstances the T6 bombers of the IJN line are going to be fine when going against AA heavy ships.

Good god,  I should not be having to point this out.

Well results may have a bit of a slant for illustrative purposes, his examples hold true.  It is not unusual for me to use the same planes (granted, Kaga) with minimal losses to one strike or take down to practically nothing a T7 or T8 BB.  Yes, these are targets that if they are handled properly should not be that easy but that is part of what experience is.  You find the NC, Bismark, Amagi that has drifted from the safety of the herd and blast him while he is occupied somewhere else.  A well targeted manual strike with stacked squadrons will result in minimal a/c losses.

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1 hour ago, Palladia said:

NO.  Stonerhino,  stop this nonsense right the frick now.  You are either being purposefully misleading or are otherwise ignorant of game mechanics but I can not let this slide either way.  Under normal circumstances making a run on an NC will murder you,  period.  Same with the Cleveland.  The Bayern under normal circumstances is still going to be damaging.  What you are showing is absolutely optimal situations where the enemies AA has been blasted off or they are otherwise occupied or,  for some weird reason,  off.  What you are portraying is NOT A NORMAL ATTACK RUN.  Do not try to pass them off as such,  and do not act like under normal circumstances the T6 bombers of the IJN line are going to be fine when going against AA heavy ships.

Good god,  I should not be having to point this out.

They are not normal attacks.  They are low percentage long drops or straight in auto cross drops.  But that is how you make paper planes work against high AA targets.  Also waiting for HE to knock out AA and attacking the blind side is just smart gameplay.  Again that is how you make paper planes work.

Quote

Do not try to pass them off as such,  and do not act like under normal circumstances the T6 bombers of the IJN line are going to be fine when going against AA heavy ships.

You do not attack all targets the same and if you are trying to get your TB up close to point blank drop on an undamaged NC you deserve to lose all of your planes.

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On 6/21/2017 at 11:44 AM, Warped_1 said:

Well results may have a bit of a slant for illustrative purposes, his examples hold true.  It is not unusual for me to use the same planes (granted, Kaga) with minimal losses to one strike or take down to practically nothing a T7 or T8 BB.  Yes, these are targets that if they are handled properly should not be that easy but that is part of what experience is.  You find the NC, Bismark, Amagi that has drifted from the safety of the herd and blast him while he is occupied somewhere else.  A well targeted manual strike with stacked squadrons will result in minimal a/c losses.

That's utter nonsense and you should know it.  Had a Kaga approach my Bismarck earlier with his entire strike package which I proceeded to shred before he could drop.  Four bombers survived the drop and didn't make it out of my bubble.  A Bismarck.  Alone.  The NC get's even more ridiculous,  and the Kaga's planes start dropping like flies before they can get anywhere near my Cleveland.  None of them have manual target AA.  Add that in and its going to get even sillier.  

Do not propagate this idea that "We can approach anything!" because frankly speaking,  we can't.  A decent captain ((Crud,  even I am capable of it)) is going to deal with your nonsense before you can do jack if they are in any of the AA heavy ships and slinging around garbage like this just makes the new guys think that "Hey!  I can do that too!" and its a bad,  bad standard to start.  


Thats not to say that this things don't happen. I've made successful runs on Yamato's and Montana's with the Lex's planes at this point with relatively minimal loss but the thing is,  THAT IS NOT THE NORMAL MODUS OPERANDI.  RNG,  amount of AA remaining,  and more RNG sometimes lead to runs that wouldn't normally be possible and the more you play,  the more you are going to see those scenarios arise.  But that is not the norm and should not be treated as such.

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I took those pics during a discussion about not approaching high AA ships.  They are not representative of a normal attack.  However instead  standing here preaching how weak we all already know t6 IJN planes are.  You should be assisting in helping newer CV captains learn to use their planes in a manner that does not empty their hangers premature.

Here are some end game shots of that game with the FDG, funny you mention a Bismarck.

z5YM8wN.jpg

f7uDY7e.jpg

Like I said you don't try for a point blank drop you drop like

3nbalYf.jpg

HMsRQvM.jpg

The converging drop narrows to deliver a big punch but is hard to aim.  But saves planes

slNu7eF.jpg

D2y3DPn.jpg

alternatively you auto drop with a strait in strait out approach with a cross drop when you can.

JVLbnNP.jpg

oawwmxj.jpg

Lastly like I said be patient, spot and then when your team's HE has done its trick you strike.

ndY41ep.jpg.

 

PS I love killing Clevelands every chance I get.

TLUvbiR.jpg

HvP83Di.jpg

 

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12 hours ago, StoneRhino said:

I took those pics during a discussion about not approaching high AA ships.  They are not representative of a normal attack.  However instead  standing here preaching how weak we all already know t6 IJN planes are.  You should be assisting in helping newer CV captains learn to use their planes in a manner that does not empty their hangers premature.

Here are some end game shots of that game with the FDG, funny you mention a Bismarck.

z5YM8wN.jpg

f7uDY7e.jpg

Like I said you don't try for a point blank drop you drop like

3nbalYf.jpg

HMsRQvM.jpg

The converging drop narrows to deliver a big punch but is hard to aim.  But saves planes

slNu7eF.jpg

D2y3DPn.jpg

alternatively you auto drop with a strait in strait out approach with a cross drop when you can.

JVLbnNP.jpg

oawwmxj.jpg

Lastly like I said be patient, spot and then when your team's HE has done its trick you strike.

ndY41ep.jpg.

 

PS I love killing Clevelands every chance I get.

TLUvbiR.jpg

HvP83Di.jpg

 

+1, great write-up.  You are more patient explaining then myself.  The T6 planes are fine performers when not thrown into auto drop Kamikaze missions and you illustrated it well.  It's all about picking the target and the proper time to attack.

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