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Stauffenberg44

In Praise of Pre-dreadnoughts

Pre-dreadnought Inclusion  

349 members have voted

  1. 1. Would you like to see pre-dreadnoughts included in the game in some manner?

    • Yes
      303
    • No
      18
    • Undecided or 'It Depends"
      28

234 comments in this topic

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The idea seems very sound, however it would be a huge limiting factor to these only because the only place for them would be Tier 2 or maybe 3 but that's pushing it a little bit.  I agree that if we can have the Mikasa in T2 then we should have Battleships of other nations in T2 as well.

 

Some might even qualify as the first tier I battleship on the tech tree. A few of the more conventional-hulled ships (US, UK & Germany) might squeak through into tier III but others with more insight into their specs would have a better idea.
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Why stop there? Let us go back to the Monitors and Casemate Ironclads of the "War Between the States':B

 

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Heck yeah, I'd love to see more in game.

 

Id start with the French ones first. All those shown are extremely unique. 

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Huge hell yes.  You'll notice that my avatar is USS Kearsarge, the only US battleship that wasn't named for a state.

 

Although the predreadnought I want in game more than any other is the US Indiana class, BB-1 through 3.  Indiana, Massachusetts and Oregon.

 

 

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Huge hell yes.  You'll notice that my avatar is USS Kearsarge, the only US battleship that wasn't named for a state.

 

Although the predreadnought I want in game more than any other is the US Indiana class, BB-1 through 3.  Indiana, Massachusetts and Oregon.

 

 

I liked the pic of the Kearsarge so much I put her up. ;)

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I would have no issues with this, at least it is along the lines of real warships, not some odd ball ARP or other event.  Did those events even bring in the right kind of people?  Or just people for those events who are just here for the [edited]and giggles of it all?  I would love to see the stats of those who came in during them to see if they are a hindrance to the rest of society?  Who knows, but I would rather someone be here for the ships and warfare, not for all the [edited]like that.

Edited by Agememnon

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Dont forget Radetsky class, lord nelson class, satsuma class, deutschland class, mississippi class, theres just so many of these ships.

 

Also id like to point out that Slava was a Borodino class battleship captured by the IJN after Tsushima (the only surviving ship of its class). And was eventually sold back to russia and fought in WWI. In one instance Slava was in battle against german dreadnoughts and her captain intentionally flooded one side to raise elevation and increase the range of the 12 inch guns. During this skirmish some shells fell close to the german ships and due also to the surrounding minefields caused the dreadnoughts to retreat. Later she would be heavily damaged and ultimately put out of action by 11 inch shells fired from german dreadnoughts. Early on in the war she also caused some deal of annoyance to ground troops and was subject to some unsuccessful air attacks one of which was the first attack by torpedo bombers against a moving battleship.

Edited by KevnxKilla

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Dont forget Radetsky class, lord nelson class, satsuma class, deutschland class, mississippi class, theres just so many of these ships.

 

Also id like to point out that Slava was a Borodino class battleship captured by the IJN after Tsushima (the only surviving ship of its class). And was eventually sold back to russia and fought in WWI. In one instance Slava was in battle against german dreadnoughts and her captain intentionally flooded one side to raise elevation and increase the range of the 12 inch guns. During this skirmish some shells fell close to the german ships and due also to the surrounding minefields caused the dreadnoughts to retreat. Later she would be heavily damaged and ultimately put out of action by 11 inch shells fired from german dreadnoughts. Early on in the war she also caused some deal of annoyance to ground troops and was subject to some unsuccessful air attacks one of which was the first attack by torpedo bombers against a moving battleship.

 

Yes, Pommern was Deutschland class. So many you are right, I gave but a sample of some of the more interesting ones to my eye.

I chose the Borodino for its gnarly looks but also because this rough beast was part of the Russian fleet that sailed around the horn of Africa to its doom at Tsushima.

 

Do vote if you haven't

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I'd pay for a Borodino to go along with my lonely Mikasa.

 

In other words, hell yes.

Edited by Hangoverhomey

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How would you flavor each nations pre-dreads if they were added?

I mean all of them are dreadfully slow, but a few are quite heavily armed (ranging from for example, Kearsarge with it's rather heavy main guns. Vs some of the french designs that are a little less on main battery, but very heavy on secondary.)

 

As a matter of fact, the more I look, the more Kearsarge looks like a big St Louis.

 

Why stop there? Let us go back to the Monitors and Casemate Ironclads of the "War Between the States':B

 

Hey, I've said it before, but I think that would be an interesting event to run around March 9th (Battle of Hampton Roads). Course they could have some fun with it and add in other ironclad designs so other nations don't feel left out. Make sure battering rams are included as they were integral to the design of quite a few ironclads. (I think Merrimack sank a union steam frigate by ramming, but it's been a while since I read the account of the battle)

Edited by Nikarus

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~snip~~

 

*pfft*

Really I apologize for the double post, I had meant to edit this in. But really man, you're acting that salty about the ARP events?

Edited by Nikarus

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How would you flavor each nations pre-dreads if they were added?

 

I'll leave that to those who have the time to examine their specs more closely. You can count on close-in banging away at each other on 24 x 24 kms maps and ramming will come into play (it didn't historically because of the development of torpedoes and mines).

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OP please understand I am trying to help I think you have the wrong picture for Regina Elena https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Regina_Elena-class_battleship

That is the Pennsylvania Class Armored Cruiser https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pennsylvania-class_cruiser

Which I would love to see in game also.

Edited by Chaos_EN2
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OP please understand I am trying to help I think you have the wrong picture for Regina Elena https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Regina_Elena-class_battleship

That is the Pennsylvania Class Armored Cruiser https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pennsylvania-class_cruiser

Which I would love to see in game also.

 

Not at all thanks much for that. I changed to the Roma.

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How would you flavor each nations pre-dreads if they were added?

I mean all of them are dreadfully slow, but a few are quite heavily armed (ranging from for example, Kearsarge with it's rather heavy main guns. Vs some of the french designs that are a little less on main battery, but very heavy on secondary.)

 

As a matter of fact, the more I look, the more Kearsarge looks like a big St Louis.

 

 

Hey, I've said it before, but I think that would be an interesting event to run around March 9th (Battle of Hampton Roads). Course they could have some fun with it and add in other ironclad designs so other nations don't feel left out. Make sure battering rams are included as they were integral to the design of quite a few ironclads. (I think Merrimack sank a union steam frigate by ramming, but it's been a while since I read the account of the battle)

 

​I'd say that the way to balance them is to either make the main battery or the secondary battery not completely worthless.  They kind of got it completely wrong on the Mikasa and refuse to admit their mistake however stating that it would somehow become OP?  That's a laugh and a half.
Edited by Hangoverhomey

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​I'd say that the way to balance them is to either make the main battery or the secondary battery not completely worthless.  They kind of got it completely wrong on the Mikasa and refuse to admit their mistake however stating that it would somehow become OP?  That's a laugh and a half.

 

I agree. The main guns on the Mikasa are very poorly modeled: "It is worse than a crime, it is a mistake."1

 

1Charles Maurice de Talleyrand-Périgord, "C'est pire qu'un crime, c'est une faute."

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Theres also a ton of old armored and protected cruisers, as well as scout cruisers and torpedo boat destroyers from this era.

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Theres also a ton of old armored and protected cruisers, as well as scout cruisers and torpedo boat destroyers from this era.

 

There are a number of protected CAs in the game from this era: Jurien, Bogatyr and Aurora, Kolberg and Dresden. Also Chester and St Louis are from this period.
Edited by Stauffenberg44

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​I'd say that the way to balance them is to either make the main battery or the secondary battery not completely worthless.  They kind of got it completely wrong on the Mikasa and refuse to admit their mistake however stating that it would somehow become OP?  That's a laugh and a half.

 

I do wish the Mikasa wasn't such garbage. I mean I've managed a kraken unleashed in the thing, but the dispersion on the main guns is simply too terrible. Thing is, if it had slightly better stats on that, it would be a perfectly reasonable T2 ship. Weak to destroyers, good against cruisers. Course every one of the free-prem low tier cruisers they've added are garbage next to the normal tree counterparts. They just have their firing range gimped so low without actual reason.

 

 

I agree. The main guns on the Mikasa are very poorly modeled: "It is worse than a crime, it is a mistake."1

 

1Charles Maurice de Talleyrand-Périgord, "C'est pire qu'un crime, c'est une faute."

 

Perhaps they're modeled accurately, as the range on her primary fire control rangefinder was quite low... But one really has to wonder if greater than 7km range is accurate on any T1 or T2 ship.

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There are a number of protected CAs in the game from this era: Jurien, Bogatyr and Aurora, Kolberg and Dresden. Also Chester and St Louis are from this period.

 

Yes I know but there are still many many more that are left out which is what im referring to. But you are right those ships are from this period so as long as we get some pre-dreads I think we will have sufficient cruiser and destroyer competition. I dont expect this soon from WG if at all but this is my favorite period of naval shipbuilding and I know just how much is left out from this game and many others. Its almost all of this era of warships that is mostly ignored and its a shame to me.

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Perhaps they're modeled accurately, as the range on her primary fire control rangefinder was quite low... But one really has to wonder if greater than 7km range is accurate on any T1 or T2 ship.

 

They are so bad on the Mikasa you can almost aim a bit above or below the ship and get as many RNG hits as aiming directly at it. And I am talking about a target 7 kms away. It's as though it is lobbing unrifled cannonballs. lol

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Yes I know but there are still many many more that are left out which is what im referring to. But you are right those ships are from this period so as long as we get some pre-dreads I think we will have sufficient cruiser and destroyer competition. I dont expect this soon from WG if at all but this is my favorite period of naval shipbuilding and I know just how much is left out from this game and many others. Its almost all of this era of warships that is mostly ignored and its a shame to me.

 

The feeling I get is that their conception of tier i and II was of a "learn to play" area for newbs, which is a shame when you have a boatload (pardon the pun) of incredibly interesting historical ships like these pre-dreadnoughts begging to be included. For the most part it was "the period starts after the pre-dreadnoughts sorry"... and then along came the MIkasa. I am hoping the mold is broken and these rough beasties can infiltrate into the game more and more. :)

Edited by Stauffenberg44

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The feeling I get is that their conception of tier i and II was of a "learn to play" area for newbs, which is a shame when you have a boatload (pardon the pun) of incredibly interesting historical ships like these pre-dreadnoughts begging to be included. For the most part it was "the period starts after the pre-dreadnoughts sorry"... and then along came the MIkasa. I am hoping the mold is broken and these rough beasties can infiltrate into the game more and more. :)

 

This is just it, the ships in the low tiers are interesting and fun to play.  They shouldn't be gimped simply because of their tiers.  They are important parts of history and I do enjoy playing them time to time.

 

Anyway as for Armored cruisers, I'm all for them as well.   They were really cool ships with Belts up to 180-190mm thick and odd ball batteries.

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This is just it, the ships in the low tiers are interesting and fun to play.  They shouldn't be gimped simply because of their tiers.  They are important parts of history and I do enjoy playing them time to time.

 

Anyway as for Armored cruisers, I'm all for them as well.   They were really cool ships with Belts up to 180-190mm thick and odd ball batteries.

 

 

If  you want more sophisticated play the higher tiers await you, but for some "bash & crash" these battleships are made to order for that kind of fun. And by made for it I mean many incorporated rams on their prows although the advent of torpedoes and mines pretty much put paid to a fleet rushing straight at the enemy with this in mind. On tier II with these ships with rams you could have them inflicting massive damage by ramming and getting off with relatively minor damage to themselves, as opposed to the instant dual detonations of both BBs on other tiers.

 

 

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Yea I 100% agree. Unlike tanks and planes there are more than enough warships through the "steel era" to fill out tech trees to tier 15 or even tier 20. Unfortunately were met with the "tier 10 is the max cap" response.

Edited by KevnxKilla

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