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In Praise of Pre-dreadnoughts

Pre-dreadnought Inclusion  

349 members have voted

  1. 1. Would you like to see pre-dreadnoughts included in the game in some manner?

    • Yes
      303
    • No
      18
    • Undecided or 'It Depends"
      28

234 comments in this topic

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"Since the ‘seventies French designs had exhibited a strong leaning toward the bizarre and "fierce-face." Piled-up superstructure, preposterous masts, uncouth funnels, tumble-home sides and long ram bows without any attempt at achieving any symmetry or balance in profile produced an aggressive appearance in marked contrast to the more restrained and more harmoniously efficient ensemble of our own ships. They favored small turrets which made the guns look overlong, and grouped their secondary guns near the main armament for reasons of protection and magazine distribution – although providing grounds for criticism that one well-placed shell could put the whole group out of action."    

                                                                                            - British Battleships, 1971, Oscar Parkes, p. 376

 

From the last decade of the 19th century through the first decade of the 20th, these iron and steel behemoths ruled the oceans without peer, often appearing offshore from colonial possessions, their "fierce face" design intended to 'scare the natives.'

I've always had a love for these 'ugly-beauties' and from my beginnings in WoWs have had the hope they might eventually be included--if not for the obvious colour and character they would bring, at least to spice up Tier II and perhaps Tier III as well. At present there is only the Mikasa, Admiral Tōgō's flagship in the Battle of Tsushima Strait. One Tier II battleship per nation and a few special premiums as well would round out every nation's battleship line--there may be a few that just might squeak through into Tier III depending on their specs; e.g. the German pre-dreadnought Deutschland, or Pommern which was the only battleship sunk in the Battle of Jutland. Let's not forget that the largest sea battle before Jutland was the Battle of Tsushima fought entirely with pre-dreadnoughts as well as the first major naval engagement to make use of wireless.

I've heard arguments against having pre-dreadnoughts but the fact is that including the Mikasa has already broken the taboo as it were--I say bring on more. You don't have to admire the steampunk look of these unique ships to appreciate their history and what they could add to low-tier play. They would surely broaden the interest base of new players for WoWs and would be welcome additions for collectors.

Vote yes if inclined and send WG a message.

That said, here's a selection of 32 likely candidates with historical notes given for each. Also included are a few unique dreadnoughts and three battlecruisers from this era, indicated (*). So far, six of the ships listed below have appeared in the game (Mikasa, Danton, Izmail, Gangut, Dreadnought and Viribus Unitis) and are indicated in red.

 

JAPAN

Mikasa

 

595f7ac116db0_FFMikasa.jpg.bc13e0f5022d40a14c20e80daa9977a8.jpg 

Notes

At present the only pre-dreadnought battleship in the game and her visual details are excellent as one would expect; that said however, the guns on the ship have been nerfed to the point of ridiculousness through fear (one suspects) of making her OP. As it is, it's as though the main guns are lobbing unrifled solid shot. Admiral Tōgō would surely not be pleased.

Mikasa is a pre-dreadnought battleship built for the Imperial Japanese Navy (IJN) in the late 1890s, and was the only ship of her class. Named after Mount Mikasa in Nara, Japan, the ship served as the flagship of Admiral Tōgō Heihachirō throughout the Russo-Japanese War of 1904–1905, including the Battle of Port Arthur on the second day of the war and the Battles of the Yellow Sea and Tsushima.

Days after the end of the Russo-Japanese War, Mikasa's magazine accidentally exploded and sank the ship. She was salvaged and her repairs took over two years to complete. Afterwards, the ship served as a coast-defence ship during World War I and supported Japanese forces during the Siberian Intervention in the Russian Civil War.After 1922, Mikasa was decommissioned in accordance with the Washington Naval Treaty and preserved as a museum ship at Yokosuka. She was badly neglected during the post World War II occupation of Japan and required extensive refurbishing in the late 1950s. She is now fully restored as a museum ship and can be visited at Mikasa Park in Yokosuka.

Mikasa is the last remaining example of a pre-dreadnought battleship anywhere in the world.

Zhenyuan (Chin'en)

Spoiler

 

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Notes

This early German-built Chinese pre-dreadnought, later captured by the Japanese, is one of the most unique ships listed here and had to be included if only for interest's sake.

Zhenyuan (or Chen Yuen) was a German-built Chinese Beiyang Fleet turret ship of the 19th century. Her sister ship was Dingyuan. Built with 356-millimetre (14 in) thick armour and modern Krupp guns, they were superior to any in the IJN at the time.

Zhenyuan was built by Stettiner Vulcan AG in Stettin. The keel was laid in March 1882, she was launched on 28 November 1882 and started her sea trials in March 1884. Her armament consisted of four 12-inch (300 mm) 25 calibre Krupp breech-loading guns in two barbettes one either side with a secondary armament of two 5.9 inch (150mm) 35 calibre Krupp breech-loaders placed fore and aft. To this were added six 37 mm guns and three above the waterline torpedo tubes. The total complement was around 363 officers and ratings.

During the First Sino-Japanese War, Zhenyuan was commanded by Philo McGiffin and saw action at the Battle of the Yalu River on 17 September 1894, during which she suffered severe damage.

Captured by the Japanese after the Battle of Weihaiwei on 17 February 1895, Zhenyuan was taken as a prize of war.

Rebuilt in 1896/7 and commissioned under the name Chin'en (the Japanese rendition of the ship's original Chinese name), Zhenyuan was the only battleship in the Imperial Japanese Navy until the commissioning of Fuji in 1897. She served during the Boxer Rebellion of 1900 in escorting Japanese troopships to the Asian mainland.

Considered obsolete by the time of the Russo-Japanese War of 1904, Chin'en was rated as a second-line battleship, and served escort duty as well as participating in the blockade of Port Arthur. She was damaged on 10 August 1904 taking two hits from the Russian fleet. During the Battle of Tsushima, she was relegated to the IJN 5th Fleet and was successful in attacking Russian troop transports.

On 12 December 1905, Chin'en was re-classed as a 1st class coastal defense ship, but in May 1908 was de-rated to a training vessel. She was scrapped in Yokohama in 1914.

from:

- McGiffin, Philo N. "The Battle of Yalu, Personal Recollections by the Commander of the Chinese Ironclad 'Chen Yuen.'" The Century Magazine, Volume 50 Issue 4 (Aug 1895):585-605.

- Paine, S.C.M. (2003). The Sino-Japanese War of 1894-1895: Perception, Power, and Primacy. Cambridge University Press. pp. 197–213.

 

FRANCE

Hoche

Spoiler

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Notes

The Hoche was an extremely curious ship. Laid down in June 1881 at Lorient , the ship took nine years to complete. She started off with two different plans by Chief Engineer Huin. During this extraordinarily long gestation period, designers kept modifying things to the design, like berserk automobile designers. A tail fin here, a chrome hood mount there, things kept accumulating until one of the most bizarre concoctions ever to be conceived was completed in 1890. The Hoche had a very low freeboard coupled with her most distinctive feature, a towering superstructure. Her superstructure was so high and so built up that she was given the nickname, The Grand Hotel. Photographs of the Hoche underway at moderate speed in calm water give the appearance of the ship sinking by the bow. 

The Hoche also tried a new armor/armament scheme with turrets for single13.4-inch/28 (340mm) guns in bow and stern turrets and single open gun 10.8-inch/28 (274mm) guns in barbettes with wing sponsons. Since the sponsons jutted far outboard from the steep tumblehome of the hull, the Hoche was supposed to have significant end on fire from the waist guns. It was thought that they could achieve 180 degree arc, i.e. pure end on fire bow and stern. However, truth intervened and it was discovered that end on fire still created significant blast damage. Reality limited them to an arc of 90 degrees, half of what was anticipated. Seven 5.5-inch (140mm) guns were in lower structure on both sides with two more of each side mounted two decks higher on the corner quarters of the superstructure. There was an assortment of light QF guns and five above water 15-inch (381mm) torpedo tubes. With the Hoche the French Navy inaugurated the age of the Fleet of Samples in which most battleship designs were one-offs. Displacing 10,820-tons, Hoche had eight boilers, which powered four engines, producing a top speed of 16.5-knots. In furtherance of the towering mass of the superstructure, the appearance of the Hoche was further supplemented with a large slab-sided rectangular funnel and two heavy military masts. Each turret and barbette gun had part of the superstructure built above the gun position, creating a high probability of superstructure hits disabling guns as damaged superstructure could fall onto the gun positions below. Of course this delicious confectionary was topped with flying bridges the length of the superstructure and double decker boat skids. 

The Hoche had a generous armored belt with compound armor ranging 18-inches to 10-inches in thickness.  The top of the belt was only two feet above the waterline and therefore damage right above the belt would ship water in any type of sea state. The bottom edge was better since it ended five and a half feet below the waterline. A compound 3.1-inch with 0.8-inch steel armored deck met the hull slightly below the upper belt edge, sealing the machinery spaces in armor. It too could be pierced by any hit slightly above the belt. Turret and barbette armor was 16-inches of wrought iron. As shown in the first paragraph in this article, observers could see from the start that this puppy had problems. One look at the massive superstructure, topped with towering, heavy military masts and a gigantic funnel mounted on a very low freeboard, severely tublehomed hull, pointed to problems. The high top weight was evident and further amplified by the fact that the 10.8-inch guns were 27-feet above the waterline and the main gun turrets lower at around 15-feet. The high superstructure presented a perfect sail for the wind to act upon. At most speeds both the forecastle and quarterdeck took water over the decks, which would enter the fore and aft turrets. The French Navy also recognized the stability problem because the ship was not allowed to steam at full speed, as the instability increased with the speed.

Hoche was sent to represent France at the inauguration of the Kiel Canal , at which Kaiser William II was present. As the Kaiser saw the Hoche pass in the naval review, he exclaimed, “What a great target!” In 1892 Hoche was turning off of Marseille and a packet-boat cut in front of the battleship. The Hoche received no damage but things were different for the packet-boat, which had received the battleship’s ram. The packet-boat sank in a few minutes with the loss of 107 passengers and crew.  The first significant modification came in 1894 with the replacement of the old model 5.5-inch guns being replaced by new model quick firing 5.5-inch guns. Twelve of the new model replaced the eighteen of the old model. The broadside count went from seven to four while two guns were mounted in casemates added to each corner of the superstructure. To further reduce weight the aft military mast was replaced by a much lighter pole mast. These weight reductions from September 1894 to April 1895 did very little to improve stability. 

On March 2, 1897 the Hoche was being maneuvered into the dry dock at Brest by a tug. In an error of misjudgment the tug pushed the battleship into the angle of the dry dock causing damage which required two months to repair. On May 13, 1898 while steaming through Teignouse passage into Quiberon Bay , the Hoche ran into an uncharted rock and returned to Brest for repairs. Two months later, in July 1898 the Hoche went to the yard for a complete refit amounting to a rebuild. All of the boilers were removed and replaced by sixteen Belleville boilers. The superstructure was totally reworked, significantly reducing height and weight. The large single rectangle funnel was replaced by two much smaller oval funnels mounted side by side and the forward military mast was replaced with a pole mast. Since it took a decade to build, the Hoche was out of date when commissioned. After 18 years of service and the advent of the Dreadnought, the Hoche had no military value. In April 1908 Hoche was decommissioned and placed in reserve. On January 1, 1910 she was disarmed but hung around for a few more years, until expended as a target in November 1913.

from http://www.steelnavy.com/Combrig350Hoche.htm

Henri IV

 

 FF Henry IV.jpg

Notes

History

Henri IV was laid down in July 1897, launched in August 1899 and completed in 1902. As a coast defense battleship or battleship 2nd class, she was not in the forefront of French naval activities. However, she was still in service when France declared war against Germany in August 1914. She was in the backwater of Bizerta in the Mediterranean and stayed there as guard ship until February 1915. At this point in time Henri IV was sent to the Dardanelles to support the Anglo-French fleet and ANZAC landings. In 1916 she joined the Complementary or Reserve Division of the 3rd Battle Squadron. Subsequently she was transferred to the French eastern division in Egypt and then in 1918 to Taranto as a depot ship. In company with almost all other predreadnoughts she went to the scrapyard after the war. Sent to Toulon, Henri IV, an unheard prophet ahead of her time, was stricken in 1921. However, she had served long enough to see all navies adopt the superfiring turret arrangement that she had introduced at the turn of the century. (History of Henri IV from Battleships of World War I, 1972, by Anthony Preston; British Battleships, 1971, by Dr. Oscar Parkes; French Battleships 1876-1946, 1990, by R.A. Burt; Naval Annual 1900, 1900, edited by John Leyland)

Armament

Henri IV carried her main armament of two 40-caliber 274 mm (10.8 in) in two single-gun turrets, one forward on the upper deck and the other on the main deck at the rear. The guns fired 255 kg (562 lb) armor-piercing projectiles at a muzzle velocity of 865 metres per second (2,840 ft/s).

The ship's secondary armament consisted of seven 45-caliber 138.6 mm (5.46 in) naval guns. Four were mounted in individual casemates on the main deck; two more were mounted on the shelter deck with gun shieldsand the last gun was mounted in a shelter deck turret superfiring over the rear main gun turret. This was the first superfiring turret in naval history and, in this case, was not very successful because the barrel of the 138 mm gun was too short to clear the sighting hood of the turret below. These guns fired 35–30 kg (77–66 lb) shells at muzzle velocities of 730–770 metres per second (2,400–2,500 ft/s).

Twelve 47 mm (1.9 in) 40-caliber Hotchkiss guns were mounted as anti-torpedo boat guns. They were mounted in platforms in the foremast and mainmast and on the superstructure. They fired a 1.49-kilogram (3.3 lb) projectile at 610 metres per second (2,000 ft/s) to a maximum range of 4,000 metres (4,400 yd). Their theoretical maximum rate of fire was fifteen rounds per minute, but only seven rounds per minute sustained. Two submerged 450 mm (18 in) torpedo tubes were also carried. Exactly which types of torpedoes carried is unknown, but most of the torpedoes in service during the war had  warheads of 110 kilograms (240 lb), maximum speeds of 36 knots (67 km/h; 41 mph) and maximum ranges of 6,000 meters (6,600 yd).

Armor

Henri IV had a waterline armor belt that was 2.5 m (8.2 ft) high and tapered from the maximum thickness of 280 mm (11 in) that to 180 mm (7.1 in) at the ship's ends. The belt ended short of the stern in a 100 mm (3.9 in) traverse bulkhead. The lower edge of this belt tapered as well from 180 to 75 mm (7.1 to 3.0 in) in thickness. The upper armor belt was mostly 100 mm (3.9 in) thick and ran from the bow to 9.1 m (360 in) aft of the midsection. It was generally 2 m (6.6 ft) high, but increased to 4 m (13 ft) forward and ended in a 75 mm (3.0 in) traverse bulkhead. The maximum thickness of the armored deck was 60 mm (2.4 in), but tapered to 30 mm (1.2 in) at the ship's ends. Below this was a thinner armored deck that tapered from 20 mm (0.79 in) on the centerline to 35 mm (1.4 in) at the edges. It curved down about 91 cm (36 in) to form a torpedo bulkhead before it met up with the inner bottom. This system was based on experiments conducted in 1894 and was more modern than that used in the Russian battleship Tsesarevich although it was still too close to the side of the ship. The main turret armor was 305 mm (12.0 in) in thickness and the ammunition shafts were protected by 240 mm (9.4 in) of armor. The casemates for the 138 mm guns ranged from 75–115 mm (3.0–4.5 in) in thickness and their ammunition tubes had 164.7 mm (6.48 in) of armor.

From various sources:

https://www.revolvy.com/main/index.php?s=French%20battleship%20Henri%20IV

Charles Martel

 

 595f7d501f9cc_FFCharlesMartelX.jpg.6cf7b0ebd00e26a3750b6fde5d4a5784.jpg

Notes

The Charles Martel was a French pre-dreadnought battleship launched in 1893 in response to the British battleships of the Royal Sovereign class. Along with the Charles Martel other four ships of broadly similar, but not equal characteristics were built. Between the "monstrous" French battleships and the well proportioned British counterparts there was a strong contrast. In the decades 1870-1880 the French battleships had been built as bizarre fortresses with thick masts and small turrets whose cannons seemed twice as long. The hulls were tall, with the boards very curved inwards and the cannons disposed in groups, with those of smaller caliber around those of larger.

Heir of that style was the Charles Martel, an early form of pre-dreadnought battleship whose construction was still strongly influenced by the former ironclad designs. The armor was thicker than in later forms of pre-dreadnought battleships but the main turrets were single so the main artillery comprised only two 305-millimeter cannons, albeit other two 274-millimeter pieces existed. The picture shows clearly the characteristic form of the hull, much wider at waterline level than at deck level.

The Charles Martel spent her active career in the Mediterranean Squadron of the French Navy, initially in the active squadron and later in the reserve squadron. She regularly took part in maneuvers and in 1901 she was used as target for a dummy torpedo launched by the submarine Gustave Zédé. Being then a ship of very outdated formula, she was out of service at the outbreak of the First World War and she remained like that during the whole conflict, being ultimately broken up for scrap in 1922

Redoutable

 

 595f7d96a0241_FFRedoutable.jpg.b9fc99ebb61f37bc4e74395230610b63.jpg

Notes

I include this remarkable ship for interest's sake, although it might qualify as our first Tier I battleship.

"Redoutable was a central battery and barbette ship of the French Navy launched in the 1880s. She was the first warship in the world to use steel as the principal building material. Compared to iron, steel allowed for greater structural strength for a lower weight. France was the first country to manufacture steel in large quantities, using the Siemens process At that time, steel plates still had some defects, and the outer bottom plating of the ship was made of wrought iron.

The Redoutable is built partly of iron and partly of steel and is similar in many respects to the ironclads Devastation and Courbet of the same fleet, although rather smaller. She is completely belted with 14 in [360 mm] armour, with a 15 in [380 mm] backing, and has the central battery armoured with plates of 9½ in [240 mm] in thickness.

The engines are two in number, horizontal, and of the compound two cylinder type, developing a horsepower of 6,071 [4.527 MW], which on the trial trip gave a speed of 14.66 knots. Five hundred and ten tons of coal are carried in the bunkers, which at a speed of 10 knots should enable the ship to make a voyage of 2,800 nautical miles [5,200 km]. Torpedo defense netting is fitted, and there are three masts with military tops carrying Hotchkiss revolver machine guns.

The offensive power of the ship consists of seven breechloading rifled guns of 27 centimeters (10.63 in.), and weighing 24 tons each, six breechloading rifled guns of 14 centimeters (5.51 in.), and quick-firing and machine guns of the Hotchkiss systems. There are in addition four torpedo discharge tubes, two on each side of the ship.

The positions of the guns are as follows: Four of 27 centimeters in the central battery, two on each broadside; three 27 centimeter guns on the upper deck in barbettes, one on each side amidships, and one aft. The 14 centimeter guns are in various positions on the broadsides, and the machine guns are fitted on deck, on the bridges, and in the military tops, four of them also being mounted on what is rather a novelty in naval construction, a gallery running round the outside of the funnel, which was fitted when the ship was under repairs some months ago.

There are three electric light projectors, one forward on the upper deck, one on the bridge just forward of the funnel, and one in the mizzen top."

from Scientific American 1881

Jauréguiberry

 

595f7dbaaf363_FFJaureguiberry.jpg.8c4529059e6e225508c43953d592288a.jpg

The jaunty Jauréguiberry charging ahead at 17.71 knots with a full head of steam

Notes

Jauréguiberry was laid down November 1891 at Forges et Chantiers de la Méditerranée in La Seyne-sur-Mer. She was launched on 27 October 1893 and was complete enough to begin her trials on 30 January 1896. After various mishaps, she was finally commissioned on 16 February 1897.

Jauréguiberry's main armament consisted of two 305-millimetre (12.0 in) 45-calibre guns in two single-gun turrets, one each fore and aft. Her secondary armament consisted of two 274-millimetre (10.8 in) guns in two single-gun turrets, one amidships on each side, sponsoned out over the tumblehome of the ship's sides. Eight 45-calibre 138 mm guns were mounted in manually operated twin turrets at the corners of the superstructure. Six 450-millimetre (17.7 in) torpedo tubes were initially fitted. Two each were above water in the bow and stern and one was on each broadside underwater. The above-water tubes were removed during a refit in 1906.

After the start of World War I Jauréguiberry was assigned to escort troop convoys between North Africa and France. She also escorted a convoy of Indian troops in September 1914. She was stationed at Bizerte from December 1914 to February 1915 when she sailed to Port Said to become flagship of the Syrian Division. Jauréguiberry departed Port Said on 25 March for the Dardanelles to replace the pre-dreadnoughts Suffren and Bouvet and upon her arrival became the flagship during the subsequent operations. She provided gunfire support to the troops during the initial landings 25 April and subsequently until 26 May. She was lightly damaged by Turkish artillery on 30 April and 5 May, but continued to fire her guns as needed.

Jauréguiberry was recalled to Port Said on 19 July and bombarded Turkish-owned Haifa on 13 August. She resumed her role as flagship of the Syrian Division on 19 August. She participated in the occupation of Ile Rouad on 1 September and other missions off the Syrian coast until she was transferred to Ismailia in January 1916 to assist in the defense of the Suez Canal although she returned to Port Said shortly afterward. Jauréguiberry was refitted at Malta between 25 November and 26 December 1916, returning to Port Said. She landed some of her guns to help defend the Canal in 1917 and was reduced to reserve in 1918.

She arrived at Toulon on 6 March 1919 where she was decommissioned and transferred to the Engineer's Training School on 30 March for use as an accommodation hulk. She was stricken from the Navy List on 20 June 1920, but remained assigned to the Engineer's School until 1932. Jauréguiberry was sold for scrapping in June 1934.

from:  https://www.revolvy.com/main/index.php?s=French battleship Jauréguiberry&item_type=topic

Danton

Spoiler

59739b3d682bd_FFDanton.jpg.64a435f025d2c7d31f602162259b2b89.jpg

Notes

This unique semi-dreadnought would have made an interesting Tier III battleship; alas, they opted for the Turenne version of her which got rid of the potent secondaries, replacing them with the "diamond-shaped" arrangement of the 305mm main guns (picture below). While the Danton-version's main guns would put her at a disadvantage against other battleships and dreadnoughts, her unusual array of rapid-firing secondary guns, 6 x 9 inch per side, would make her very effective against enemy cruisers and destroyers.

Danton was laid down in Brest in February 1906, launched on 4 July 1909, and commissioned into the French Navy on 1 June 1911 and displaced 19,736 metric tons with a crew of 681 officers and enlisted men. She was powered by four steam turbines with 26 boilers, the first French warship to use turbines, providing a top speed of around 19 knots (35 km/h; 22 mph).

Danton's main battery consisted of four 12 inch guns mounted in two twin gun turrets, one forward and one aft. The secondary battery consisted of twelve 9 inch guns in twin turrets, three on either side of the ship. A number of smaller guns were carried for defense against torpedo boats. The ship was also armed with two 17.7 inch torpedo tubes. The ship's main belt armour was 10.6 inches thick and the main battery was protected by up to 11.8 inches of armour. The conning tower also had 11.8 inch thick sides.

In July 1909, a week after she was completed, she was sent to the United Kingdom in honour of the coronation of King George V in 1911. Upon her return to France, Danton was assigned to the 1st Battle Squadron, along with her sister ships and the two powerful dreadnoughts Courbet and Jean Bart. In 1913, while  in the Mediterranean, Danton suffered an explosion in one of her gun turrets, which killed three men and injured several others.

Danton served in World War I in the French Mediterranean Fleet. At the outbreak of the war in early August 1914, she was assigned to guard convoys bringing French soldiers from North Africa, to protect from attack by the German battlecruiser Goeben and light cruiser Breslau, which were operating in the area. At the time, she remained in the 1st Battle Squadron alongside her sister ships, and by 16 August, moved with the bulk of the French fleet from Malta to the entrance of the Adriatic to keep the Austro-Hungarian Navy bottled up.

Danton was torpedoed by U-64 on 19 March 1917, 22 miles south-west of Sardinia. The battleship was returning to duty from a refit in Toulon and was bound for the Greek island of Corfu to join the Allied blockade of the Strait of Otranto. Danton was carrying more men than normal, as many were crew members of other ships at Corfu, and had been zig-zagging to foil enemy submarines. The ship sank in 45 minutes; 806 men were rescued by the destroyer Massue and nearby patrol boats, but 296, including Captain Delage, went down with the ship. Massue attacked U-64 with depth charges, but the U-boat successfully evaded her attacker.

The location of the wreck remained a mystery until an underwater survey team inadvertently discovered the battleship in December 2007. In February 2009, the wreck was confirmed to be Danton. The ship is in remarkably good shape for her age. Danton rests upright on the ocean floor, and most of the original equipment is reported to be intact.

 

Turenne2.jpg.4f1b789022cb3994fbd2f3d270d81b2d.jpg

French dreadnought Turenne (Danton swap) in WoWs

 

RUSSIA

Borodino

 

59a5581911c28_FFBorodino5.jpg.67ae8de9c3173e36085fa5886aa26d91.jpg

Notes

This floating pitbull (attention, chien méchant!) is my absolute favourite for her sheer gnarliness and history. That this low-in-the-water iron and steel beast made it around Cape of Good Hope on her 18,000 mile journey from the Baltic to the Sea of Japan is nothing short of epic, not to mention tragic given her fate. For those interested there is a fine book about this arduous journey: The Tsar's Last Armada: The Epic Journey to the Battle of Tsushima by Constantine Pleshakov (Basic Books, 2003).

"Borodino was the lead ship of her class of pre-dreadnought battleships in the Imperial Russian Navy although she was the second ship of her class to be completed. Named after the 1812 Battle of Borodino. The ship was laid down on 23 May 1900 in the presence of Tsar Nicholas II and launched on 8 September 1901. She was completed in August 1904.

While exact figures are not available for Borodino, it is probable that the ship was approximately 1,700 long tons (1,700 t) overweight as she and her sisters were overloaded with coal and other supplies; all of which was stored high in the ships and reduced their stability. The extra weight also submerged the waterline armor belt and left only about 4 feet 6 inches (1.4 m) of the upper armor belt above the waterline

On 15 October 1904, Borodino set sail for Port Arthur from Libau along with the other vessels of the Second Pacific Squadron, under the overall command of Vice Admiral Zinovy Rozhestvensky. Rozhestvensky led his squadron, including Borodino, down the Atlantic coast of Africa, rounding Cape Horn, and anchored off the north-west coast of Madagascar on 9 January 1905 where they remained for two months while Rozhestvensky finalized his coaling arrangements. During this time, Rozhestvensky learned of the capture of Port Arthur and changed his destination to Vladivostok, the only other port controlled by the Russians in the Far East. The squadron sailed for French Indochina, on 16 March and reached it almost a month later to await the obsolete ships of the 3rd Pacific Squadron, commanded by Rear Admiral Nikolai Nebogatov. The latter ships reached Camranh Bay on 9 May and the combined force sailed for Vladivostok on 14 May.

The ship was sunk during the Battle of Tsushima on 27 May 1905 due to explosions set off by a Japanese shell hitting a 6-inch (152 mm) magazine. There was only one survivor from her crew of 855 officers and enlisted men."

- from McLaughlin, Stephen (2003). Russian & Soviet Battleships. Annapolis, Maryland: Naval Institute Press.

Tsesarevich

Spoiler

 

59638d54f2b5a_FFTsesarevich3.jpg.9b55877c840a77ed0cc8f774e18f4975.jpg

A beautiful shot of the Tsesarevich off her port bow

Notes

In the late 1800s, Russia acquired Port Arthur in Manchuria (through coerced lease) and this was notable because it represented an ice-free port for its Navy with free access to the Pacific. To defend its control Tsar Nicholas II ordered several warships to be constructed for use in the Far East defending Port Arthur in Manchuria with one of these becoming the Tsesarevich. Due to a lack of shipbuilding capabilities within Russia, the warship was constructed in France and delivered to the Russian Navy upon completion. Tsesarevich was ordered on July 20th, 1898 and built by Forges et Chantiers de la Mediterranee of France and was commissioned on August 31st, 1903.

Tsesarevich carried a mixed-gun armament consisting of 2 x 305mm (12") main guns, 6 x 152mm (6") secondary guns, 20 x 75mm (3") guns, 20 x 47mm (1.9") guns and 8 x 37mm (1.5") guns. Additionally there were 4 x 381mm (15") torpedo tubes fitted. Power was from 20 x Belleville boilers feeding 2 x Vertical triple-expansion steam engines driving 16,300 horsepower to 2 x Shafts. Maximum speed was 18 knots with a range out to 5,500 nautical miles.

As built, Tsesarevich exhibited a length of 388.8 feet, a beam of 76 feet and a draught of 26 feet. Her crew complement numbered 778 and armor protection reached 10" at the conning tower. The belt held up to 9.8" and the decks up to 2". Her profile featured a forward set bridge superstructure, midships-based smoke funnels and a twin-mast arrangement. On the whole, her appearance was consistent with warship design of the late-1800s.

After entering service in 1903, Tsesarevich was sent to the Far East and took up station in Port Arthur before the end of the year. She represented the more formidable warship in the Russian Navy fleet at the time and a considerable foe for Japan when the two nations went to war in the Russo-Japanese War of 1904-1905. After several inconclusive actions against the Japanese fleet she managed to reach the German treaty port of Tsingtau and was disarmed and interned for the duration of the war.

The vessel was then returned to Russia and formed part of the Baltic Fleet. In 1906 it took part in suppressing the Sveaborg rebellion, a Russian military mutiny born from the 1905 Russian Revolution. That same year her profile changed some as her superstructure was shortened and she lost some of her 75mm guns. Her next participation was in response to the Messina earthquake in December of 1908. Her propulsion scheme was drastically updated from 1909 to 1910.

Tsesarevich was still in commission by the time of World War 1 (1914-1918) but saw little action in the conflict. There was another mutiny, this time involving Tsesarevich as a host ship, in the early part of 1917. Following the February Revolution, the warship was renamed to "Grazhdanin" on April 13th. Then came her participation in the Battle of Moon Sound during October 1917 which ended as a German victory in the Baltic Sea. Grazhdanin took several direct hits from German guns and retreated.

Before the end of the year, she was taken over by the Bolsheviks and retired by May 1918. She was scrapped in 1924.

from http://www.militaryfactory.com/ships/detail.asp?ship_id=tsesarevich-predreadnought-battleship-russian-empire

Potemkin

 

 595f7e346ec17_FFPotemkin.jpg.672fbc33b3de8d39a44a28fa141f937b.jpg

Notes

If there's one clear contender for a Tier II pre-dreadnought premium it has to be the Potemkin given her fame.

"The Russian battleship Potemkin was a pre-dreadnought battleship built for the Imperial Russian Navy's Black Sea Fleet. She became famous when the crew rebelled against the officers in June 1905 (during that year's revolution), which is now viewed as a first step towards the Russian Revolution of 1917. The mutiny later formed the basis of Sergei Eisenstein's 1925 silent film The Battleship Potemkin.

After the mutineers sought asylum in Constanta, Romania, and after the Russians recovered the ship, her name was changed to Panteleimon. She accidentally sank a Russian submarine in 1909 and was badly damaged when she ran aground in 1911. During World War I, Panteleimon participated in the Battle of Cape Sarych in late 1914. She covered several bombardments of the Bosphorus fortifications in early 1915, including one where she was attacked by the Turkish battlecruiser Yavuz Sultan SelimPanteleimon and the other Russian pre-dreadnoughts present drove her off before she could inflict any serious damage. The ship was relegated to secondary roles after Russia's first dreadnought battleship entered service in late 1915. She was by then obsolete and was reduced to reserve in 1918 in Sevastopol."

from McLaughlin, Stephen (2003). Russian & Soviet Battleships. Annapolis, Maryland: Naval Institute Press.

Imperator Pavel I

 

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Notes

Imperator Pavel I (Czar Paul) was an Andrei Pervozvanny-class pre-dreadnought built for the Imperial Russian Navy in the first decade of the 20th century. The ship's construction was seriously extended by design changes as a result of the Russo-Japanese War and labor unrest after the 1905 revolution and she took nearly six years to build. Imperator Pavel I was not very active during WW I and her sailors were the first to mutiny in early 1917.

The main armament consisted of two pairs of 12-inch guns mounted in twin-gun turrets fore and aft. Eight of the fourteen 8-inch guns were mounted in four twin-gun turret at the corners of the superstructure while six were mounted in casemates in the superstructure. Two underwater 457-millimeter (18.0 in) torpedo tubes were mounted, one on each side, and they were provided with six spare torpedoes.

Based on the Russian experience at the Battle of Tsushima, the sides of the ship's hull were completely protected by Krupp cemented armor. The main waterline belt had a maximum thickness of 8.5 inches (216 mm) and the upper belt was 5 inches (127 mm) at its thickest. The sides of the main gun turrets were 8 inches (203 mm) thick and the armor of the casemates ranged from 3.1 to 5 inches (79 to 127 mm) in thickness. The greatest thickness of deck armor was 1.5 inches (38 mm).[4]

Construction began on Imperator Pavel I on 27 October 1904and was slowed by labor trouble in the shipyard from the 1905 Revolution. The ship entered service on 10 March 1911 before her trials were completed in October 1911.At the beginning of World War I she covered Russian minelaying operations at the entrance of the Gulf of Finland. She did little else for the rest of the war as the Russian naval strategy in the Baltic was defensive.

The ship was laid up in October 1918 for lack of manpower and she was scrapped beginning on 22 November 1923.

from:

Paul S Halpern. A Naval History of World War I. Annapolis, Maryland: Naval Institute Press (1994).

Stephen McLaughlin. Russian & Soviet Battleships. Annapolis, Maryland: Naval Institute Press (2003).

Izmail*

Spoiler

 

59d255e6a904d_FFIzmail.jpg.58b26b544f5ddac6196ecca804870b14.jpg

Notes

For those who believed that Russian battleships would be mostly paper 'what-ifs' there is a short one-word reply: Izmail. This potent battlecruiser was well on the way to being completed when the revolution broke out and the hull was left unfinished. She has now appeared in the game as a potent Tier VI battlecruiser.

The Russian battlecruiser Izmail was one of a group of four Borodino or Ismail-class battlecruisers ordered by the Imperial Russian Navy before World War I. The design had twelve 14-inch main guns and twenty-four 5.1-inch/55 secondary guns. Maximum speed was to be 26 1/2-knots with an armored belt of 12-inches maximum.

Construction of the ships was delayed as many domestic factories were overloaded with orders and some components had to be ordered from abroad. The start of World War I slowed their construction still further as the imported components were often not delivered and domestic production was diverted into areas more immediately useful for the war effort.

Three of the four ships were launched in 1915 and the fourth in 1916. Work on the gun turrets lagged, and it became evident that Russian industry would not be able to complete the ships during the war. The Russian Revolution of 1917 put a stop to their construction, which was never resumed. Although some consideration was given to finishing the hulls that were nearest to completion, they were all eventually sold for scrap by the Soviet Union. The Soviet Navy proposed in 1925 to convert Izmail, the ship closest to completion, to an aircraft carrier, but the plan was cancelled after political maneuvering by the Red Army led to funding not being available.

In the game the Izmail feels, and looks, like the Oktabryskaya Revolutsiya (see below)... on steroids. A welcome addition to the Russian battleship line.

Gangut (Oktabryskaya Revolutsiya)

Spoiler

Gangut.jpg.0dbed52400f7645edfcca35a63577e38.jpg

Notes

The Gangut-class battleships, also known as the "Sevastopol class", were the first dreadnoughts begun for the Imperial Russian Navy before WWI, and Gangut was the last of her class to be completed. Her role was to defend the mouth of the Gulf of FInland against the Germans, who never tried to enter, so she spent her time training and providing cover for minelaying operations. Her centerline layout of main guns was done purposely as her unenviable role was basically that of a super heavy coastal defense ship. Her crew joined the general mutiny of the Baltic Fleet after the Revolution and she joined the Bolsheviks in 1918. She was laid up in 1918 for lack of manpower and not recommissioned until 1925, by which time she had been renamed Oktyabrskaya Revolutsiya.

She was reconstructed between 1931 and 1934 with new boilers, fire-control systems and greatly enlarged superstructures. During the Winter War she bombarded Finnish coastal positions. Her AA armament was greatly reinforced in early 1941, just before the German invasion and she provided gunfire support against the Germans during the long Leningrad siege. Retained on active duty after the war she became a training ship in 1954 before being struck off the Navy List in 1956 and slowly scrapped.

The Gangut, upgraded to a tier V battleship,  is now in the game as the Oktyabryskaya Revolutsiya:

 

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Gangut upgraded to the Oktyabrskaya Revolutsiya

With the new expanded Russian battleship line the Gangut is here in person. I confess I free exp's past her and have yet to try her. I imagine the Okt.Rev performs better but we shall see.

 

UK

Hannibal

Spoiler

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Notes

HMS Hannibal was a Majestic-class pre-dreadnought built for the Royal Navy. and the sixth ship to bear the name HMS Hannibal after the brilliant Carthaginian general. The ship was laid down at the Pembroke Dock in May 1894, she was launched in April 1896, and commissioned into the fleet in April 1898. She was armed with a main battery of four 12-inch (305 mm) guns and a secondary battery of twelve 6-inch (150 mm) guns. The ship had a top speed of 16 knots (30 km/h; 18 mph).

HMS Hannibal served as an east coast guardship before being disarmed in 1915. She had been paid off from active service in 1905, and joined the Channel Fleet reserve in 1906 (Home Fleet from 1907). In the 1914 mobilisation plans it had been intended to place all of the Majestic class ships into the 7th Battle Squadron of the Channel Fleet, but in August 1914 four of them were detached to form a new 9th Battle Squadron, based on the Humber. HMS Hannibal was to be the flagship of this new squadron, under Rear-Admiral F. S. Miller.

The Hannibal remained in commission as a guardship at Scapa until February 1915She was then used as a troop ship. One of her early duties was to take troops to the Mediterranean in September 1915, in company with Mars and Magnificent. She remained service as a troopship until 1919.

from: http://www.historyofwar.org/articles/weapons_HMS_Hannibal.html

Rather under-powered vs many of the other pre-dreadnoughts listed here she just might excel as our first tier I BB in WoWs--why not? Then again, she and the Mikasa would be a good match perhaps.

5b7b7b3d5eb07_Hannibal2.jpg.1bc7e9c6e0784e57c46d0dfab7b2f501.jpg

 

 

Britannia

 

59e2a8e7c4b82_FFBrittania.thumb.jpg.4bba86bbca244106a5cf6face523a06e.jpg 

Notes

No peculiar French tumblehome hull and gun layout, along with strangely huge masts thanks very much. HMS Britannia was built at Portsmouth Dockyard. She was laid down on 4 February 1902, launched on 10 December 1904, and completed in September 1906. Like all British battleships since the Majestic class, the King Edward VII-class ships had four 12-inch (305-mm) guns in two twin turrets (one forward and one aft), although the final three King Edwards, including Britannia, mounted the Mark X 12-inch, a improvement on the Mark IX mounted by the first five King Edwards. Mounting of the 6-inch guns in casemates was abandoned in Britannia and all seven of her sister ships, the 6-inch instead being placed in a central battery amidships protected by 7-inch (178-mm) armoured walls.

When World War I broke out, Britannia was transferred back to the 3rd Battle Squadron, which was part of the Grand Fleet. During sweeps by the fleet, she and her sister ships often steamed at the heads of divisions of the far more valuable dreadnoughts, where they could protect the dreadnoughts by watching for mines or by being the first to strike them.

After a refit in 1917, she conducted patrol and escort duties in the Atlantic. On 9 November 1918, just two days before the end of the war, she was torpedoed by a German submarine off Cape Trafalgar and sank with the loss of 50 men. She was the last Royal Navy ship to be sunk in the war.

from: http://www.wartimememoriesproject.com/greatwar/ships/view.php?pid=1451

Agamemnon

Spoiler

59a83ada8b29c_FFAgamemnon.jpg.41c1420aaf62cd464bc60d9d580953b7.jpg

Notes

The Agamemnon was ordered in 1904 and laid down in 1905 by William Beardmore and Company, launched a year later, and was the pride of the British Royal Navy and the last of her pre-dreadnought battleships produced. Because she was of a "bridge" design between the ironclad vessels of old and dreadnought ships to come, her design and her fate were already established before she was ever launched. Coming along just after the turn of the century, she survived long enough to see action in World War 1 (1914-1918) but very little beyond that. HMS Agamemnon was of a dying breed of ship, though a capable design she was, perhaps appearing two decades too late.

Her profile was dominated by a center superstructure, twin masts and twin funnels. Her battery of four 12" main guns was housed in two armored turrets - one fore and one aft, two guns to a turret. This was augmented by 10 x 9.2" guns positioned in turrets around the superstructure. Her other armament consisted of 24 x 12-pounder cannons and an additional 2 x 3-pounder types centering around a quick-fire action. To compliment this armament, 5 x torpedo tubes of 460mm were provided with 23 torpedoes to spare. Crew complement totaled over 800 personnel and power was derived from her vertical triple expansion 4-cylinder engines powered by no less than 15 x boilers. This turned twin screws at 16,750 horsepower and offered speeds close to 19 knots.

Once launched, the vessel undertook some basic operations before being called up to active service in the First World War as part of the Channel Fleet in February of 1915, serving alongside HMS Lord Nelson - her sister ship. Her main guns were brought to bear on inland Ottoman targets in the same month and provided cover fire for amphibious operations soon after including the infamous Gallipoli landings in April. During this time, HMS Agamemnon survive several direct howitzer ships but none were critical to underlying systems and her crew losses were manageable. The Agamemnon survived the war and had Ottoman representatives present on her decks to sign the Armistice. Beyond that, the class had reached its pinnacle and HMS Agamemnon was relegated to the role of a target ship in the middle 1920's. Surviving that affair, she was broken down and sold for scrapping in 1927.

from https://www.militaryfactory.com/ships/detail.asp?ship_id=HMS-Agamemnon

Dreadnought

Spoiler

 

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Notes

Here she is, clearly destined to be one of those quintessential collector's items in WoWs, she initially appeared as the HMS Bellerophon, a direct descendant chosen for her improved torpedo protection one assumes. Dreadnought was able to fire 6 main guns forward and 8 aft, a truly unique design and like a number of other remarkable dreadnoughts that appeared in WW I--destined never to trade blows with enemy capital ships.

"When she was commissioned in 1906, HMS Dreadnought was the dominant battleship class of her era. Dreadnought was anointed the revolutionary ship of the age even when, in World War 1, she did not sink another battleship in combat or even participate in the famous Battle of Jutland. The reason was based simply on her revolutionary armament scheme, an electronic range-finding weapons system and increased speed technology which were brought together in a modern design for the first time.
 
The armament improvements on HMS Dreadnought focused on change of the current design discipline which utilized many calibers guns for offense and defense across the armament scheme. Dreadnought was outfitted with 5 x 12-inch twin-gun turrets each having a range out to 14.2 miles (25,000 yards). Three turrets were located conventionally along the centerline of the ship for weight stabilization with one turret forward and two aft. The torpedo control tower, located on a small tripod mast, was mounted between the aft turrets. This blocked any aft centerline fire from the aft turret closest to the superstructure. Two other 12-inch turrets were located on both sides of the bridge superstructure, each able to fire forward and to port or starboard based on which side the turret was mounted on. In all, Dreadnought could deliver a full broadside of eight guns and fire eight guns aft or six ahead - in most cases only within a narrow range.

Having superior firepower was useless without enhanced gunnery range, aiming and fire control systems. Dreadnought was one of the first Royal Navy capital ships to be fitted with improved electronic range transmitting equipment. The old standard fire control system was the use of a voice pipe system where changes in range and deflection were yelled into a brass pipe from fire control to the awaiting gunnery crew in the turrets. This ultimately proved ineffective in combat situations when operational noise levels affected the spoken order. Also, in the transmitting station found in the bowels of the ship, there was installed a Vickers variable range/speed clock that estimated and projected the changing range between the target vessel and the attacking ship. For greater accuracy of determining the distance, Dreadnought was outfitted with a new type of electrical rangefinder developed by Barr and Stroud. The use of a uniform main battery without multiple caliber guns greatly simplified the task of adjusting fire in action.

The British invention of the steam turbine propulsion engine in 1884 was important for its use in ships by exhausting the fresh water to a condenser that could be reclaimed to feed a boiler as salty, corrosive seawater could not be used. HMS Dreadnought was the first capital warship to replace the proven technology of the triple-expansion engine with the experimental steam turbine, making her the fastest battleship in the world at the time of her launch. The Dreadnought promoted a speed of 21 knots (39 km/h) which allowed her to outrun any existing battleship with like-firepower as well as the ability to outgun a faster cruiser.

Dreadnought reversed the old sailing arrangement and housed officers forward, closer to the bridge, and enlisted men aft so that both officers and most enlisted men were closer to their action stations. Another major improvement was the removal of longitudinal passageways between compartments below deck. Doors connecting compartments were always closed during combat as they are in submarines to prevent the spread of fires and flooding.
 
At the start of World War 1 in the summer of 1914, Dreadnought was the flagship of the Fourth Battle Squadron based at Scapa Flow. Interestingly, for a vessel designed to engage enemy battleships, her only major action was the the ramming and sinking of German submarine U-29 on March 18th, 1915, thus becoming the only battleship to ever sink a submarine. As a result, she missed the Battle of Jutland while undergoing refit. Like most of the older battleships she was in bad condition from constant touring of the North Sea and was put up for sale in 1920 and sold for scrap at 44,000 pounds in 1921."

JR Potts:  https://www.militaryfactory.com/ships/detail.asp?ship_id=HMS-Dreadnought

Bellerophon2.jpg.ceb4c085f6de62a65fa85b5830f97622.jpg

HMS Dreadnought initially swapped as Bellerophon in WoWs and now available as herself

Canada*

Spoiler

Notes

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HMS Canada was one of three battleships under construction for foreign powers in Britain in 1914 that were taken over by the Royal Navy. HMS Canada had been ordered as the Almirante Latorre by Chile, one of two battleships ordered in response to the Brazilian battleship Rio de Janeiro, then being built by Armstrongs. The Brazilian ship had been laid down in September 1911, and work on the Almirante Latorre began three months later. While the Brazilian ship had been designed to carry as many big guns as possible (fourteen 12in guns), the Chilean design featured larger guns, carrying ten 14in guns, unique in the RN at the time.

At the start of the WW I the Royal Navy purchased the two ships from Chile. The Almirante Latorre had already been launched, and so was completed as a battleship. Her sister, the Almirante Cochrane, was completed as the aircraft carrier HMS Eagle.

The basic design of the ship was similar to that of contemporary British dreadnoughts, which since the Colossus class of 1909-1911 had carried their guns in five turrets on the centre line, four in superfiring pairs fore and aft and one amidships, although HMS Canada was longer than any of the British designed battleships. The only British battleship of this period to be longer was HMS Agincourt, formerly the Rio de Janeiro, then the Sultan Osman I, also taken over in 1914.

She was commissioned into the Fourth Battle Squadron of the Grand Fleet, fighting with that squadron at the battle of Jutland. She took part in the two brief battleship actions, suffering no hits and no casualties. She finished the war with the First Battle Squadron

In 1920 she was returned to Chile. She was modernised at Devonport in 1929-31, where she was given anti-torpedo bulges, modern fire control equipment and converted to burn oil. After Pearl Harbour the United States attempted unsuccessfully to buy her. She was modernised again in 1950, but in the following year suffered accidental damage that ended her career.  

from: http://www.historyofwar.org/articles/weapons_HMS_Canada.html

HMS Canada was the only battleship in the Grand Fleet in WW I with 14" guns. While the layout was similar to the Orion and Ironduke-class dreadnoughts in WoWs, the former's guns were 13.5 inches (343 mm), while Canada's 14 inches (355.6 mm) would likely make her a viable tier V premium alongside the Ironduke.

 5ae9c34e35477_FFCanada2.jpg.17c4363612c67224bc6d6daa05531ed7.jpg

 

 

 

US

Georgia

Spoiler

Notes

5aa9699394f3d_FFGeorgia.thumb.jpg.0ab9d4b57f41c3701a9013b48c46e7d9.jpg

USS Georgia, a 14,948-ton Virginia class battleship built at Bath, Maine, was commissioned in September 1906. She soon became a unit of the Atlantic Fleet, participating in routine operations and, in June 1907, in the Jamestown Exposition's naval review. The following month, while engaged in gunnery exercises, she suffered a turret accident that took the lives of ten of her crew. In December 1907, Georgia left Hampton Roads, Virginia, with other Atlantic Fleet battleships to begin the World cruise of the "Great White Fleet". She visited ports in the West Indies, South America, Mexico, the U.S. west coast, the western Pacific, Asia and the Mediterranean before returning to Hampton Roads in February 1909.

Georgia was updated after this voyage, receiving many improvements, including "cage" masts in place of her original "military" models. Her normal Atlantic Fleet activities were punctuated by a trans-Atlantic trip to Europe in 1910-11, a Naval Academy training cruise in mid-1913 and intervention operations in troubled Mexico and Haiti in 1914. While out of commission in 1916-17, Georgia served as receiving ship at Boston, Massachusetts.

Recommissioned in April 1917, Georgia was employed on training duties during most of the First World War, shifting to convoy escort missions in September 1918. Late in the year, she began six months' of transport service, bringing almost 6000 U.S. servicemen home from France in five voyages. In July 1919, the battleship transited the Panama Canal to join the Pacific Fleet. She was placed out of commission at Mare Island, California, in June 1920. Receiving the hull number BB-15 later in that month, Georgia remained inactive until November 1923, when she was sold for scrapping.

from: https://www.history.navy.mil/our-collections/photography/us-navy-ships/battleships/georgia-bb-15.html

Ohio

Spoiler

Notes

59b6b4f7b371a_FFOhio.jpg.11c8b46a3e26e6b1f317cc1a3bab43bd.jpg

USS Ohio in the Panama Canal July 1915

USS Ohio was laid down on April 22, 1899 at Union Iron Works in San Francisco and was launched in 1901. She was part of the Maine-class of battleship which was meant to be an evolution of USS Iowa (BB-4) which entered service in June 1897. As such, the new battleships were to be of a sea-going design rather than the coastal configuration used in earlier classes. She mounted  four 12"/40 cal. guns supported by sixteen 6" guns, six 3" guns, eight 3-pdr guns, and six 1-pdr guns. While the first designs called for using Krupp Cemented armor, the US Navy later decided to utilize Harvey armor which had been employed on earlier battleships.

As the United States' newest battleship in the Pacific, Ohio received orders to steam west to serve as flagship of the Asiatic Fleet, returning to the United States and transferred to the East Coast in 1907. To impress upon Japan that the United States could move its main battle fleet to the Pacific with ease, Roosevelt began planning a world cruise of the nation's battleships. The "Great White Fleet, including Ohio, crossed the Pacific to Hawaii before reaching New Zealand and Australia in August 1907. After taking part in elaborate and festive visits, the fleet cruised north to the Philippines, Japan, and China. Completing port calls in these nations, the American fleet transited the Indian Ocean before passing through the Suez Canal and entering the Mediterranean. The Ohio made visits to ports in the Mediterranean before the fleet regrouped at Gibraltar. Crossing the Atlantic, the fleet arrived at Hampton Roads on February 22 where the Ohio was inspected by Roosevelt.

In 1914, though obsolete, Ohio continued to fulfill secondary functions and helped support the US occupation of Veracruz. With the US entry into WW I in April 1917, Ohio was re-commissioned. and spent the war training sailors in and around the Chesapeake Bay. With the conflict's conclusion, Ohio steamed north to Philadelphia where she was placed in reserve on January 7, 1919. Decommissioned on May 31, 1922, it was sold for scrap the following March in compliance with the Washington Naval Treaty.

from https://www.thoughtco.com/uss-ohio-bb-12-2361315

59b6b64e5fa59_FFOHIO2.jpg.f0ff1945b48b4d48ca252b9e79feb8df.jpg

USS Ohio in dazzle camouflage 1918

Oregon

 

5960f54c38925_FFBB-3Oregon.jpg.bea1db641edd186e2ba4ea8040826351.jpg

Notes

USS Oregon (BB-3) was launched on 26 October 1893 in San Francisco and served for a short time with the Pacific Squadron before being ordered on a voyage around South America to the East Coast in March 1898 in preparation for war with Spain. She departed from San Francisco on 19 March, and reached Jupiter Inlet 66 days later, a journey of 14,000 nautical miles (26,000 km; 16,000 mi). This was considered a remarkable achievement at the time. The journey popularized the ship with the American public and demonstrated the need for a shorter route, which led to construction of the Panama Canal.

After completing her journey Oregon was ordered to join the blockade at Santiago as part of the North Atlantic Squadron under Rear Admiral Sampson. She took part in the Battle of Santiago de Cuba, where she and the cruiser Brooklyn were the only ships fast enough to chase down the Spanish cruiser  Cristóbal Colón, forcing its surrender. Around this time she received the nickname "Bulldog of the Navy", most likely because of her high bow wave—known as "having a bone in her teeth" in nautical slang—and perseverance during the cruise around South America and the battle of Santiago.

After the war Oregon was refitted and sent back to the Pacific. She served for a year in the Philippines during the Philippine-American War and then spent a year in China at Wusong during the Boxer Rebellion before returning to the United States for an overhaul. In March 1903 Oregon returned to Asiatic waters and stayed there for three years, decommissioning in April 1906, later used as a barge in WW II and finally scrapped in 1956.

Delaware*

Spoiler

59c8149fb4789_FFDelaware.jpg.431a70ed3a19d7576795ca9f0f53ab5a.jpg

Notes

With her excellent hitting power and armour, this has to be the USN dreadnought to set against the Tier III British Bellerophon and German König Albert.

"USS Delaware (BB-28) was a dreadnought battleship of the USN and the lead ship of her class. She was launched in January 1909, and completed in April 1910. Delaware was armed with a main battery of ten 12-inch (305 mm) guns all on the centerline, making her the most powerful battleship in the world at the time of her construction. She was also the first battleship of the US Navy to be capable of steaming at full speed for 24 continuous hours without suffering a breakdown.

Delaware sailed from Hampton Roads 1 November with the First Division, Atlantic Fleet, to visit Weymouth, England, and Cherbourg, France, and after battle practice at Guantanamo Bay, Cuba, returned to Norfolk 18 January 1911. In her operations with the Fleet from 1912 to 1917, Delaware joined in exercises, drills, and torpedo practice at Rockport and Provincetown, Mass.; engaged in special experimental firing and target practice at Lynnhaven Roads; trained in Cuban waters participating in fleet exercises; and provided summer training for midshipmen.

With the outbreak of World War I in Europe, Delaware returned to Hampton Roads from winter maneuvers in the Caribbean to train armed guard crews and engineers, as well as join in exercises to ready the Fleet for war. On 25 November 1917 she sailed from Lynnhaven Roads with Division 9, bound for Scapa Flow, Scotland. After battling bad weather in the North Atlantic, she joined the 6th Battle Squadron, British Grand Fleet 14 December for exercises to coordinate the operations of the Allied force. The 6th Battle Squadron got underway 6 February 1918 with an escort of eight British destroyers to convoy a large group of merchant ships to Norway. Cruising off Stavanger two days later, Delaware was attacked twice by a submarine, but each time skillful handling enabled the battleship to evade the torpedoes. The squadron returned to its home base at Scapa Flow, 10 February.

Delaware participated in two more convoy voyages in March and April, then sailed with the Grand Fleet on 24 April 1918 to reinforce the 2d Battle Cruiser Squadron which was on convoy duty and expected contact with the enemy. Only the vessels of the advance screen made any contact, and the chance for action faded.

Delaware entered Norfolk Navy Yard 30 August 1923, and her crew was transferred to Colorado (BB-45), a newly commissioned battleship assigned to replace Delaware in the Fleet. Moving to Boston Navy Yard in September, she was stripped of warlike equipment and decommissioned 10 November 1923.

Delaware was sold 5 February 1924 and scrapped in accordance with the Washington Treaty on the limitation of armaments."

             from http://www.navy.mil/navydata/ships/battleships/delaware/bb28-del.html

 

GERMANY

Schleswig-Holstein

Spoiler

5adb7889e97f2_FFSchleswig-Holstein.jpg.6fb4eeebc1084daf2f08f8f98691ca69.jpg

 

Notes

The German battleship Schleswig-Holstein was a pre-WW1-era Deutschland-class battleship. During WW1, she participated in the Battle of Jutland, where she was hit once by gun fire from the British Royal Navy's 2nd Battle Squadron. After WW1, she was one of six battleships that Germany was permitted to keep, partially because she was already rather obsolete much like the other five. In the mid-1920s, she underwent a refitting that merged her first two smoke stacks into a single one. When she emerged from refitting in 1926, she became the flagship of the German Navy. In 1936, she became a training ship. By 1939, although still rated as a battleship, she was not on par with most contemporaries.

ww2dbaseWhen the invasion of Poland took place on 1 Sep 1939, Schleswig-Holstein was in the harbor of the Free City of Danzig, having arrived there several days later on a courtesy visit. At 0445 hours on 1 Sep, she bombarded the nearby Polish defensive position on the Westerplatte peninsula with 280-millimeter and 170-millimeter shells. Ignacy Skowron, a Polish Army corporal serving at Westerplatte at the time, recalled seeing "a flash of red" as Schleswig-Holstein opened fire. "I grabbed a machine gun," said Skowron. "We got the order and we started to fight back. [Schleswig-Holstein] then sailed into the channel and started to fire shell after shell at us. I saw huge trees being snapped in two."

ww2dbaseAfter the surrender of the Westerplatte garrison, Schleswig-Holstein went on to bombard Polish positions at Gdynia, Kepa Oksywska, and the Hel Peninsula. At Hel, she was hit by a 152-millimeter shell from a Polish coastal gun. In Apr 1940, she supported the invasion of Denmark, but the government of Denmark capitulated before she saw action. She acted as a training ship until Sep 1944, from which time she re-entered combat duty as an anti-aircraft picket ship. On 19 Dec 1944, she sank in shallow water at Gdynia after being struck by British bombers. In Mar 1945, she was damaged by scuttling charges set by her crew.

ww2dbaseAfter the war, Schleswig-Holstein was raised by the Russians and towed to Tallinn, Estonia where she might have been renamed Borodino. She was scuttled near Osmussaar Island in the Baltic Sea in 1948. Her hull was used as a target ship until the 1960s. The wreck of Schleswig-Holstein is now protected by the Estonian National Heritage Board as a historic shipwreck. As of 1990, the ship's bell was on display in the Bundeswehr Military History Museum in Dresden.

Sources: BBC, WIkipedia

Deutschland

 

 59735c1f3e2c0_FFDeutschland.thumb.jpg.a4ed59f5e5168ed6066c9723355a3593.jpg

Notes

A glance at the modern lines and massive bulk of this ship shows her to be one of the last pre-dreadnoughts, on the very cusp of morphing into a full dreadnought battleship. This makes her a possible contender as a Tier III pre-dreadnought battleship.

SMS Deutschland (His Majesty's Ship) was the first of five Deutschland-class pre-dreadnought battleships built for the German Kaiserliche Marine (Imperial Navy). The ship was armed with a main battery of four 11-inch guns in two twin turrets. She was launched in November 190 and commissioned on 3 August 1906, a few months ahead of HMS Dreadnought.. The latter, armed with ten large-caliber guns, was the first of a revolutionary new standard of "all-big-gun" battleships that rendered Deutschland and the rest of her class obsolete.

Deutschland served as the flagship of the High Seas Fleet until 1913, when she was transferred to the II Battle Squadron. With the outbreak of World War I  in July 1914, she and her sister ships were tasked with defending the mouth of the Elbe and the Gerrman Bight from possible British incursions. Deutschland and the other ships of the II Battle Squadron participated in most of the large-scale fleet operations in the first two years of the war, culminating in the Battle of Jutland  on 31 May – 1 June 1916. Late on the first day of the battle, Deutschland and the other pre-dreadnoughts briefly engaged several British battlecruisers before retreating. Her sister ship Pommern was the only battleship sunk in the entire battle.

After the battle, in which pre-dreadnoughts proved too vulnerable against more modern battleships, Deutschland and her three surviving sisters were assigned to coastal defense duties. By 1917, they had been withdrawn from combat service completely, disarmed, and tasked with auxiliary roles. Deutschland was used as a barracks ship in Wilhelmshaven until the end of the war. She was struck from the naval register on 25 January 1920, sold to ship breakers that year, and broken up for scrap for scrap by 1922.

Goeben (Yavuz)*

Spoiler

5964e6b67e8cd_FFGoeben2.jpg.14e162302726a50fda79944cebfe8e52.jpg

Notes

Along with a few other ships included who were not pre-dreadnoughts per se, the Goeben is an obvious collector's item and a unique battlecruiser from the WW I era, perhaps the most famous that ever existed along with HMS Hood. She obviously had to be included here.

"SMS Goeben was named for Prussian infantry General August Karl von Goeben and her keel was laid down on August 28th, 1909 and commissioned on July 2nd, 1912. The technical developments brought to the table by this shipbuilder included hardened steel (by Krupp) making it possible to build a battlecruiser with armor that could survive 6-inch (150mm) fire hits while, at the same time, being able to field battleship-caliber 11.1-inch main guns when engaging enemy cruisers, destroyers and cargo ships. The design used less armor than a traditional battleship of the period, allowing more speed to help the vessel escape from larger capital ships

Goeben was a trim ship with a low silhouette and carried 34 total guns as built, including a main armament of five twin-gun turrets holding 10x11.1-inch (28.3cm) SK L/50 (280mm) main guns capable of sending a 1,000lb shell a distance of 14 miles (513yd)(23km). She had a maximum speed of 28.4 knots.

When war broke out in 1914 The Goeben and the light cruiser Breslau made for the port of Messina, outrunning the British ships by way of their superior inherent speed. After coaling the ships broke out of the Strait of Messina heading east; British Admiral Milne attempted to close in with HMS Indefatigable and HMS Indomitable but was unsuccessful.

Goeben and Breslau arrived in Turkish waters near the Gallipoli Coast. Upon receiving word about the German ships, the Ottoman government provided a visa to Admiral Souchon and the two warships were allowed to stay in Turkish waters. The British had just been embarrassed as their numerically superior fleet failed to catch the Germans during a 1,000 mile chase. The two ships were tempting chess pieces in terms of the naval superiority over the Mediterranean, Marmara and Black Seas for the Central Powers. It only took hours for the Turkish government to accept the offer to purchase the vessels. Germany, in turn, accepted and transferred ownership of Goeben and Breslau to the Ottoman Navy on August 16th, 1914. This new naval power made Goeben the pivotal piece that convinced the Sultan of the Ottoman Empire to walk the path of war alongside Germany.

Goeben was named after the famous Sultan of the Ottoman Empire, Yavuz Sultan Selim while Breslau was christened Midilli after the capital of the island of Lesbos in the Aegean (conquered by the Turks in 1462 and ruled by the Ottoman Empire until the First Balkan War in 1912, to which Greece took the island from the Turks). Accordingly, Yavuz Sultan Selim now flew the Turkish naval flag and became the flagship of the Ottoman Empire Navy, albeit with her original German crew.

The Yavuz saw numerous actions in the Black Sea against the Russians during the war. After the defeat of the Central Powers, due to the Treaty of Sevres between the Ottoman Empire and the Allies, Yavuz was to be handed over to the Royal Navy as a war prize. Due to her not being seaworthy, the Royal Navy left her in Sevastopol. In 1923, after the Turkish War of Independence, the Treaty of Sevres was replaced by the Treaty of Lausanne which required Turkish warships, including Yavuz, to be repatriated back to the Turkish Navy. After the war, Yavuz was the only German-built battlecruiser still in service. From 1918 until 1926, she remained in the port city of Izmit, rusting at dockside.

Stationed in the Gulf of Izmit since1948, Yavuz was finally decommissioned and placed in reserve on December 20th, 1950. She remained inactive at anchor for four years and stricken from the Turkish Naval register on November 14th, 1954. Her name was painted over and she was assigned the hull number "B70". Seventeen years passed until B70 was sold for scrap to the M.K.E. Seyman company in 1971. Her last voyage was being towed by tugs to the scrapyard on June 7th, 1973 and, by February 1976, her hull had been loaded onto barges heading for steel mills to be melted down. The end of an honorable career lasting some sixty-four years, the vessel was the last of the European dreadnoughts in existence."

from: http://www.militaryfactory.com/ships/detail.asp?ship_id=SMS-Goeben

Where would this ship appear in WoWs? Tier IV perhaps with her 11.1 inch main guns; I'll leave that to those better able to assess her in game terms. The photo above shows how incredibly low-slung she is--with a smaller detection range and very good speed she would be a stealthy ship.

von der Tann*

Spoiler

59a43732bf5f7_FFVonderTann.jpg.57eeb5a099e5967b49a59b271886850a.jpg

Notes

Is she a beautiful ship or what? Von der Tann was a well-armoured and fast battlecruiser that I would love to see included. She could appear anywhere from tier III to IV, depending on how heavily the WG nerf axe were to fall on her. She has built-in OPness and would be a challenge for them to balance.

"SMS von der Tann was the first German battlecruiser, and is widely accepted to have been a much more successful design than her British equivalents. She carried 50% more armour than the Indefatigable class battlecruisers (5,693 tons compared to 3,735 tons) without sacrificing speed [top speed 27.75 kts].

Contrary to popular believe, the von der Tann did not sacrifice firepower to gain her extra armour protection. Eight German 12in guns would have only added 80 tons to the weight of her guns. Partly because of her battery of 5.9in guns, the armaments of the von der Tann actually weighed more than those of the British Indefatigable class. The 1,958 tons for the extra armour on von der Tann came from a combination of a lighter hull (1,000 tons), lighter machinery (600t) and an overall increase of 350 tons in weight. Her design would suggest that the British did not need to sacrifice quite so much armour to achieve the desired combination of firepower and speed.

The real motivation for the choice of 11.1in guns for von der Tann would appear to have been cost. The Naval budget was already stretched close to the limit by the need to build a fleet of dreadnoughts and so plans to use 12in or 13.8in guns were abandoned. The 11.1in guns proved to be perfectly capable of taking on the more lightly armed British battlecruisers, but they gave the von der Tann a broadside weight of 5,238lbs, compared to the 6,800lbs of the Invincible and Indefatigable class battlecruisers or the 7,144lbs offered by the main German 12in guns.

The saving in machinery weight came from the use of 18 Schultz-Thornycroft double boilers, which provided almost the same level of power as the 32 Babcock and Wilcox used on the Indefatigable ships.

During the First World War the von der Tann took part in the Gorleston Raid of 3 November 1914 and the raid on the Yorkshire coast of 16 December. At Jutland the von der Tann became involved in a duel with the British battlecruiser Indefatigable. The duel began at 3:49pm, and at 4:03, after taking five 11.1in hits, the Indefatigable exploded. It is generally accepted that flash from one of the German hits reached her magazine. The von der Tann was hit four times herself.

After Jutland the von der Tann was involved in most of the remaining sorties of the High Seas Fleet. She was one of the German ships interned at Scapa Flow after the war, and was scuttled by her crew on 21 June 1919."

from http://www.historyofwar.org/articles/weapons_SMS_Von_der_Tann.html

 

AUSTRIA-HUNGARY

Zrinyi

Spoiler

5ad49f8b3f76a_FFZrinyi.thumb.jpg.1c5b150ccc000cec45b5b7a54dddfe3e.jpg

Notes

"SMS Zrínyi was a Radetzky-class pre-dreadnought of the Austro-Hungarian Navy ("K.u.K. Kriegsmarine"), named for the Zrinyis, a noble Hungarian family of Croatian origin. She was later briefly designated USS "Zrínyi" of the United States Navyfollowing World War I.

Her keel was laid down on November 15, 1908, at the "Stabilimento Tecnico" of Trieste. She was launched on April 12, 1910, and completed in July 1911.

Zrínyi displaced 14,508 long tons and was powered by two-shaft four-cylinder vertical triple expansion engines with a top speed of 20.5 knots. She was the first warship in the Austro-Hungarian Navy to use fuel oil to supplement her coal-fired boilers. She had a maximum range of 4,000 nautical miles at a cruising speed of 10 knots.

The ship's primary armament consisted of four 12" guns in two twin gun turrets. This was augmented by a heavy secondary battery of eight 9.4" guns in four wing turrets. The tertiary battery consisted of twenty 10cm L/50 guns in casemated single mounts. Three 45 cm (17.7 in) torpedo tubes were also carried, one on each broadside and one in the stern.

During World War I, Zrínyi served with the Second Division of the Austro-Hungarian Navy's battleships and took part in the bombardment of the key seaport of Ancona, Italy, on May 24, 1915. However, Allied control of the Strait of Otrantomeant that the Austro-Hungarian Navy was, for all intents and purposes, effectively bottled up in the Adriatic. Nonetheless, their presence tied down a substantial force of Allied ships.

After the Habsburg Empire collapsed in 1918, the Austrians wanted to turn the fleet over to the newly-created State of Slovenes, Croats and Serbs (later to become the Kingdom of Yugoslavia) in order to prevent the Italians from getting their hands on the ships. However, the victorious Allies refused to acknowledge the conversations between the Austrians and the south Slavs and, in due course, reallocated the ships.

On the morning of November 7, 1920, "Zrínyi" was decommissioned. Under the terms of the treaties of Versailles and St. Germain, Zrínyi was ultimately turned over to the Italian government at Venice and was later broken up for scrap."

from: http://enacademic.com/dic.nsf/enwiki/125149

 

The Radetzky-class battleship was notable for its heavy secondary armament of eight 9.4" guns in four wing turrets (along with the usual 20cm casemated single mounts, 10 per side).

With secondaries like that she would make a fine Tier II battleship for close-in brawling.

Zrinyi.jpg.b696511826393e40a4883f7cf16b5f72.jpg

Babenberg

 

 595f7fa156732_FFBabenberg.jpg.83f214c31996c3ae0ad73335b52bab4b.jpg

Notes

Babenberg was the last of three battleships of her class. Her keel was laid down on 19 January 1901 at the Stabilimento Tecnico Triestino shipyard in Trieste. Following about a year and a half of construction, she was launched on 4 October 1902. After final fitting-out work was completed, the ship was commissioned into the Austro-Hungarian fleet on 15 April 1904.

The ship displaced 8,364 metric tons (8,232 long tons). Once construction was finished, she was commissioned into the Navy with a crew of 638 officers and enlisted men.

During World War I, Babenberg served with the IV Division of the Austro-Hungarian Navy's battleships and along with her sister ships Habsburg and Árpád and the remainder of the Austro-Hungarian Navy. Babenberg was mobilized on the eve of World War I to support the flight of SMS Goeben and Breslau. The two German ships were stationed in the Mediterranean and were attempting to break out of the strait of Messina, which was surrounded by British troops and vessels and make their way to the Ottoman Empire. After the Germans successfully broke out of Messina, the navy was recalled. The fleet had by that time advanced as far south as Brindisi in southeastern Italy.Babenberg and her sister ships also participated in the bombardment of Ancona after the Italian declaration of war on the Central Powers. Towards the end of the war, the ship was decommissioned and was retained as a harbor defense ship. Following the end of the war, the ship was awarded to Great Britain as a war prize, but was instead sold and broken up for scrapping in Italy in 1921.

from https://www.revolvy.com/main/index.php?s=SMS Babenberg

Viribus Unitis

Spoiler

59625c1773c30_ViribusUnitis5.jpg.a69826ba7d6f42afebe4ae7b06231431.jpg

Notes

This ship had to be included in this list as it is a collector's item par excellence, a dreadnought built by Austria-Hungary to match Italy's first dreadnought at the time, the Dante Alighieri. She has finally been added to the Europe group of ships (three so far), but at least flies the flag of the dual Monarchy.

Viribus Unitis was an Austro-Hungarian Tegetthoff class dreadnought battleship commissioned in 1912.  Her name ("With United Forces") was the personal motto of Emperor Franz Joseph. After a number of operations early on, she was destined to be mostly inactive in WW I as part of a 'fleet in being' and was sunk in November 1918 by an Italian manned torpedo.

Viribus Unitis mounted twelve 12" guns in four turrets and twelve casemate 150mm secondaries, modest AA and four 530mm torpedo tubes.

Viribus Unitis was ordered by the Austro-Hungarian navy in 1908. As the first of the newly created Tegetthoff-class battleships, she was laid down in Stabilimento Tecnico Triestino shipyard in Trieste on 24 July 1910. She was launched from the shipyard on 24 June 1911 and was formally commissioned into the Austro-Hungarian Navy on 5 December 1912.

During World War I, Viribus Unitis took part in the flight of the German warships SMS Goeben and Breslau. In May 1915, she also took part in the bombardment of Ancona. Viribus Unitis was sunk by a limpet mine on 1 November 1918.

This classic dreadnought never saw major naval action against enemy capital ships. How would she fare in WoWs one wonders, and what tier would she appear in? Too powerful to set alongside the Tier III German dreadnought König Albertthey opted to make her a Tier V but early results with her from players suggest she should be TIer IV.

5afdbf1bceb4e_ViribusUnitis.thumb.jpg.3eb9d743fca2fe765f056814166d6171.jpg

 

ITALY

Sardegna

Spoiler

5afd742451d58_FFSardegna2.jpg.87046094bf5888d1c654de328524f39b.jpg

Notes

Sardegna was the third of three Umberto-class battleships built for the Italian Regia Marina (Royal Navy). The ship, named for the island of Sardinia was laid down in La Spezia in October 1885, launched in September 1890, and completed in February 1895. She was armed with a main battery of four 13.5-inch (340 mm) guns and had a top speed of 20.3 knots (37.6 km/h; 23.4 mph)—albeit at the cost of armor protection–and she was one of the first warships to be equipped with a wireless telegraph.

Sardegna spent the first decade of her career in the Active Squadron of the Italian fleet. Thereafter, she was transferred to the Reserve Squadron, and by 1911, she was part of the Training Division. She took part in the Italo-Turkish War of 1911–12, where she escorted convoys to North Africa and supported Italian forces ashore by bombarding Ottoman troops. During WW I, Sardegna served as the flagship of the naval forces defending Venice against a possible attack from the Austro-Hungarian Navy, which did not materialize. After the city became threatened following the Battle of Caporetto in November 1917, the ship was withdrawn to Brindisi and later Taranto where she continued to serve as a guard ship. She took part in Allied operations in Turkey in 1919–22, and after returning to Italy in 1923, she was broken up for scrap.

from Wikipedia

Dante Alighieri*

 

596113ad2b186_FFDanteAlighieri.thumb.jpg.5941f1d4a76ebcd0f4739f616a6ee075.jpg

Notes

A dreadnought of course, she is included here as a possible Tier III or IV Italian battleship.

Dante Alighieri, named after the medieval Italian poet, was the only battleship ever named for a poet. She was laid down at the naval shipyard in Castellammare di Stabia on 6 June 1909, launched on 20 August 1910, and completed on 15 January 1913. Dante Alighieri was the first dreadnought battleship built for the Regia Marina (Royal Italian Navy) and was the first battleship built with her main armament in triple 12-inch gun turrets (x four).

Dante Alighieri had a complete waterline armor belt that had a maximum thickness of 254 millimeters (10.0 in). The ship's armored deck was 38 mm (1.5 in) thick. The main turrets were protected by a maximum of 254 millimeters of armor while the secondary turrets and the casemates had 98 millimeters (3.9 in) of armor. The conning tower had walls 305 millimeters (12.0 in) thick.

The ship served as a flagship during World War I, but saw very little action other than the Second Battle of Durazzo in 1918 where she did not engage enemy forces. She never fired her guns in anger during her career. Dante Alighieri was refitted in 1923, stricken from the Navy List in 1928 and subsequently sold for scrap.

from https://www.revolvy.com/main/index.php?s=Italian battleship Dante Alighieri

 

 

An excellent article on these ships and why they opted for the tumblehome hull design:

  http://www.steelnavy.com/CombrigHenriIV.htm

 

 

595f7fed6b110_FFpredreadnoughts4.jpg.1926db8c077ead2addbe12b82bbbee5e.jpg

Borodino 

Покойся с миром

 

 

 

Edited by Stauffenberg44
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Oh Yes I would love to see these old ladies in game.

And the USS Ohio BB-12

Edited by Chaos_EN2

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Absolutely. Ever since that Isoroku mission came out on the Asia server, I've been seeing plenty of fellow Mikasa players in co-op mode. It was so much fun exchanging secondary battery gunfire! I hope to see either Borodino or Tsesarevich.

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"I've heard some arguments against having pre-dreadnoughts (and will gladly hear them again) but the fact is that including the Mikasa has already broken the taboo as it were--I say bring more on. You don't have to admire the steampunk look of these unique ships to appreciate their history and what they could add to low-tier play. Like Arpeggio ships they could have a view/not view option if you don't care for them, and like the ARP line they would likely broaden the interest base of new players for WoWs.

 

Actually, you would not be able to "view/not view" like the Arpeggio ships.  This works for the Arpeggio skins because they are based on a ship already in the game (ie: Kongo, Myoko) so if you have them toggled "off" then in battle you see a plain ship of that model (ie: a plain Kongo or Myoko), which means the battle is not really impacted for those who don't like the Arpeggio ships. 

 

In this case, to preserve the teams the pre-dreadnought would need to be included in some form, so you would not be able to toggle it off.

 

That said, I'd be fine with including some, and expect at some point we will see more.

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If they add them I would like a slightly more accurate main guns and one more km on secondary's, but that's just me. Even with out the buffs it still would be cool to see some  predreadnoughts in game. 

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Masena still takes my vote for fugliest thing I've seen. 

 

 

 

o8lAphm.jpg

MVzAfIO.jpg

fXBSkcB.jpg

 

 

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French pre-dreadnoughts are just awesome.

 

Edit:  Check out that tiny DD (torpedo boat) next to Massena on the second picture.  Same tumble-home hull design philosophy.  

Edited by h_balck
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On 5/30/2017 at 2:01 PM, vonKaiser said:

Masena still takes my vote for fugliest thing I've seen.

 

Oh I'll contest that and put the Henry IV up again. Looks rather like an armored turn of the century cruise ship--swimming pool on top, exercise room for 1st class passengers. All rooms with superb ocean views (please close windows when the guns are firing).

 

 

 59b6aea2f06b4_FFHenryIV.jpg.5082d38005e6f1b68ceede7173a053aa.jpg

 

Edited by Stauffenberg44
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Yes! I would play this game again if WG adds pre-dreadnoughts. Imagine some of the later "semi-dreadnoughts" with 7-inch or even 9.2-inch secondaries! The battle of Tsushima was the most decisive battleship vs battleship conflict ever and it was fought by pre-dreadnoughts! 

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Yes! I would play this game again if WG adds pre-dreadnoughts. Imagine some of the later "semi-dreadnoughts" with 7-inch or even 9.2-inch secondaries! The battle of Tsushima was the most decisive battleship vs battleship conflict ever and it was fought by pre-dreadnoughts! 

 

I still want an April Fools day event.  Monitor vs the Merrimac, add in the Tanks sound files "That one bounced"  "That one didn't go through"
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Yes! I would play this game again if WG adds pre-dreadnoughts. Imagine some of the later "semi-dreadnoughts" with 7-inch or even 9.2-inch secondaries! The battle of Tsushima was the most decisive battleship vs battleship conflict ever and it was fought by pre-dreadnoughts! 

 

Well said! And Mikasa was the Japanese flagship for Admiral Togo.
Edited by Stauffenberg44

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I still want an April Fools day event.  Monitor vs the Merrimac, add in the Tanks sound files "That one bounced"  "That one didn't go through"

 

"We didn't even scratch them!"
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Pretty much all the battleship nations in the game had pre-dreadnoughts . . . even Russia has pre-dreadnoughts that weren't paper. What they should do Is make it so battleships start at tier 2 and add pre-dreadnoughts to the regular tech tree as well as cheap premiums since there were a lot of them.

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Never liked them, have no desire to see them in game.

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I still want an April Fools day event.  Monitor vs the Merrimac, add in the Tanks sound files "That one bounced"  "That one didn't go through"

 

^ Now this guy is onto something. Maybe just have a silly little event on March 9th.

Never liked them, have no desire to see them in game.

 

Then don't play tiers 1-3?

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Yes! I am not a BB player by any means but spicing up the lowest tiers would be a great idea. The work would be on how to reconfigure the tech tree. Maybe the pre-dreadnoughts could just branch off of the initial T1 cruiser?

 

Also, there would be actual, physical ships the Russian branch could build on and not paper-tigers.

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My thoughts exactly re Russian BBs. I also think it would attract new beginner players; I am not into ARP ships but I'm glad they are there for that reason.

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I having with Mikasa so it make since to add others nation and forgot Italy: REGINA ELENA battleships (1907-1908).

220px-VittorioEmanuele002.jpg

 

I added her. :)

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The idea seems very sound, however it would be a huge limiting factor to these only because the only place for them would be Tier 2 or maybe 3 but that's pushing it a little bit.  I agree that if we can have the Mikasa in T2 then we should have Battleships of other nations in T2 as well.

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