Slimeball91

First Impressions: USS Kidd (Flamu video)

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Flamu might not be everyone's favorite, still, I think he sums up the Kidd fairly well. 

The Kidd might work in competitive but in random not so impressive.

 

I posted in the a Kidd thread a few weeks back that I wasn't too keen on the idea of a DD giving up a set of torps for AA.  To me you lose your alpha and gain fair to mediocre AA, this is a net gain for the enemy BBs, not you.  If you spec for AA you seem to gain decent AA but you lose a lot of other valuable captain skills.  Factoring in all the skills and potential alpha you give up for AA, I just can't see this being worth a T8 premium price tag.  

 

Frankly, I think a strong argument could be made to give all T7 and up USN and possibly IJN, DDs defensive AA in its own slot.  DDs AA is weak, at best it might be fair at shooting down spotter planes, but still be pretty weak against CV attacks.  What do you guys think?  Id Kidd a good DD model or do you like the idea of all US and IJN DDs having DF as a freebie?   


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Historically IJN DD AA was pretty crap, IIRC air attack was the number one killer of IJN Cans.  The 25mm was not a good weapon system and the IJN lacked a good mid sized AA piece like the Bofors.  I'd personally prefer the 30 second torpedo reload booster in an extra consumable slot instead.


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You know that this ship will undergo changes before release, possibly major changes. Anyways, I am posting just to say that Flamu is bae.


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Are Fletcher-clones going to be following the copy-and-paste Myoko trend?


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As a solo player, eagerly awaiting a Tier 8 USN DD. 

 

To say the Kidd is disappointing is an understatement .


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Posted (edited) · Report post

Historically IJN DD AA was pretty crap, IIRC air attack was the number one killer of IJN Cans.  The 25mm was not a good weapon system and the IJN lacked a good mid sized AA piece like the Bofors.  I'd personally prefer the 30 second torpedo reload booster in an extra consumable slot instead.

 

Pretty sure subs causes something like 55% of ship losses to the IJN/IJNA.

 

TRB is an IJN only feature and should remain that way. Other nations didn't carry a quick torpedo reloading device, nor did many of them even have spare torps.

 

Are Fletcher-clones going to be following the copy-and-paste Myoko trend?

 

Well, they were only the most constructed warship of WW2.

 

There's also a Fletcher-class that carried a Kingfisher seaplane.

Edited by MrDeaf

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If you spec for AA you seem to gain decent AA but you lose a lot of other valuable captain skills.  Factoring in all the skills and potential alpha you give up for AA, I just can't see this being worth a T8 premium price tag.  

 

mm that isn't exactly true given that the AA 'spec' is the same as normal DD build given that 'most' of it is just BFT and AFT, the only other thing you could do is the Manual-AA which is mostly not that great unless you are named Altanta.

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Posted (edited) · Report post

 

mm that isn't exactly true given that the AA 'spec' is the same as normal DD build given that 'most' of it is just BFT and AFT, the only other thing you could do is the Manual-AA which is mostly not that great unless you are named Altanta.

 

Most USN DD's do not take AFT, some take BFT but its not a sure thing. Especially with SE/SI and DE all being in the same row. 

 

Remember more range on US DD's is a huge minus now, you want to keep your max range as low as possible. Hence why many players are selling the upgraded FCS for the stock one. 

Edited by Cobraclutch

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Are Fletcher-clones going to be following the copy-and-paste Myoko trend?

 

I mean to be fair it was the most produced class of warship, ever.

 

On a sidenote though, give Akizuki DF.


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Historically IJN DD AA was pretty crap, IIRC air attack was the number one killer of IJN Cans.  The 25mm was not a good weapon system and the IJN lacked a good mid sized AA piece like the Bofors.  I'd personally prefer the 30 second torpedo reload booster in an extra consumable slot instead.

 

Akizuki still was an AA monster for a DD, it deserves DF if they're going to give Kidd DF. As for the main IJN DD line, they should get the Shiratsuyu's 5 second torp reload booster in it's own slot. That would make them competitive.

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Akizuki still was an AA monster for a DD, it deserves DF if they're going to give Kidd DF. As for the main IJN DD line, they should get the Shiratsuyu's 5 second torp reload booster in it's own slot. That would make them competitive.

 

I personally think you give the Kidd mk 16's instead of the 15 and you would make her much better.

 

decrease her soft stats like Rudder shift and turning circle to the same as fletcher. Keep HP as is, and you have a good ship that is equal to the benson. 

 

Having 1 more gun and DF is not worth loosing half your torpedo loadout , I do not see why you would take this over a C hull benson even in competition. 


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I personally think you give the Kidd mk 16's instead of the 15 and you would make her much better.

 

decrease her soft stats like Rudder shift and turning circle to the same as fletcher. Keep HP as is, and you have a good ship that is equal to the benson. 

 

Having 1 more gun and DF is not worth loosing half your torpedo loadout , I do not see why you would take this over a C hull benson even in competition. 

 

It should absolutely demand losing half your torpedoes. DF is an extremely powerful consumable on DDs, and should not be given lightly. The the C hull Benson, and Lo Yang both have to lose an entire gun just to get access to it. 

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Pretty sure subs causes something like 55% of ship losses to the IJN/IJNA.

 

Overall ship losses, yes.  Looking at DDs specifically the numbers are a little different.  Roughly 30% of IJN all DDs lost in WWII were lost to subs.  For comparison, around 40% were lost to air attack.

 

There is some uncertainty in the numbers.  For starters, it's a bit subjective how you count some loses -- e.g., how do you count a DD that was crippled by a mine and then finished off by air attack? You also need to decide whether to include losses of the older DDs the IJN had reclassified as "Patrol Boats" by the start of WWII.

 

Regardless, It's certain that the IJN lost somewhat more DDs to air attack than to submarines.  It's also clear that IJN DD losses to submarine and air attack combined vastly outnumber losses to all other causes.  For example, only about 10% of IJN DD losses in the war were to surface action, a statistic which in hindsight illuminates what a mistake it was for the IJN to optimize their DD designs for surface action, at the cost of ASW and AA capability.


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Historically IJN DD AA was pretty crap, IIRC air attack was the number one killer of IJN Cans.  The 25mm was not a good weapon system and the IJN lacked a good mid sized AA piece like the Bofors.  I'd personally prefer the 30 second torpedo reload booster in an extra consumable slot instead.

 

Historically, wasn't Kidd a USN DD?

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So here's the thing: I have zero problems with making AA or anti-CV focused ships. I mean, why not? There are plenty of examples of ships that are better against one class than another. Case in point: German BBs tear apart destroyers, while USN BBs have scary scary anti-air. Hell, look at Texas ... amazing close range AA for her tier, but utterly vulnerable to DDs creeping up on them.

 

The actual problem is the consistent lack of CVs in Random matches. Ships who's 'thing' is AA are considered weak in the game currently due to the fact that they are balanced with an enemy in mind that is no show most of the time. In fact, it's common practice for divisions to include a CV when they want to have a highly AA specced ships in the match ... just to make sure that there's an enemy CV in that match.

 

If and when the CV rework happens (I'm starting to think this just a myth now), and assuming this will make CVs popular enough to show up in every game the same way the other classes do, then A LOT of balance issues will resolve themselves. And ships like the USS Kidd will shine.

 

Oh and as a footnote, I would like to thank that Essex driver yesterday who felt it wise to send three waves of bombers at my Des Moines. I thank you for all the delicious XP, sir! :D


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Posted (edited) · Report post

While it may be disappointing to many people, this ship is a great addition to the game. Its a real escort craft it will make a wonderful CV baby sitter as it is able to defend agaisnt other DDs and screen incoming CV strikes. 

 

Im a fan even if I wont be using one. Good to see WG find a niche and fill it in an efficient way. Now if we could just get random battles player count lowered. WoWs is such a better game when things get more focused. 

Edited by Cpt_RickSchwifty

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Posted (edited) · Report post

So here's the thing: I have zero problems with making AA or anti-CV focused ships. I mean, why not? There are plenty of examples of ships that are better against one class than another. Case in point: German BBs tear apart destroyers, while USN BBs have scary scary anti-air. Hell, look at Texas ... amazing close range AA for her tier, but utterly vulnerable to DDs creeping up on them.

 

The actual problem is the consistent lack of CVs in Random matches. Ships who's 'thing' is AA are considered weak in the game currently due to the fact that they are balanced with an enemy in mind that is no show most of the time. In fact, it's common practice for divisions to include a CV when they want to have a highly AA specced ships in the match ... just to make sure that there's an enemy CV in that match.

 

If and when the CV rework happens (I'm starting to think this just a myth now), and assuming this will make CVs popular enough to show up in every game the same way the other classes do, then A LOT of balance issues will resolve themselves. And ships like the USS Kidd will shine.

 

Oh and as a footnote, I would like to thank that Essex driver yesterday who felt it wise to send three waves of bombers at my Des Moines. I thank you for all the delicious XP, sir! :D

 

 

So the question you need to ask is this. 

 

If you had the choice between a C hull benson and Kidd. Which would take?

 

Personally I would take the C hull Benson TBH. 

 

1 extra gun is not worth loosing half your torpedo armament, especially in competitive in which its mostly about smoke and launching torpedoes in smoke. 

 

Give me the Benson C hull over Kidd / 5 gun Benson B hull any day of the week. 

 

While it may be disappointing to many people, this ship is a great addition to the game. Its a real escort craft it will make a wonderful CV baby sitter as it is able to defend agaisnt other DDs and screen incoming CV strikes. 

 

Im a fan even if I wont be using one. Good to see WG find a niche and fill it in an efficient way. Now if we could just get random battles player count lowered. WoWs is such a better game when things get more focused. 

 

 

That ship exists, its a Benson C hull and its better then the Kidd. 

 

Escorting CV's, is a huge waste of a DD imo.  Especially considering a smart CV player will just pull away the moment DF is activated wait the 25 seconds and re engage making the DD's AA pretty mute. 

 

Edited by Cobraclutch

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It should absolutely demand losing half your torpedoes. DF is an extremely powerful consumable on DDs, and should not be given lightly. The the C hull Benson, and Lo Yang both have to lose an entire gun just to get access to it. 

 

Losing 1 gun is a night and day difference in losing half your torps.

 

Zero point in this ship if it has 1 launcher + Def AA   vs a Benson with 2x launcher -1 gun  + def AA


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Losing 1 gun is a night and day difference in losing half your torps.

 

Zero point in this ship if it has 1 launcher + Def AA   vs a Benson with 2x launcher -1 gun  + def AA

 

Which is amplified by the fact that the 1 launcher has the mk 15's from the benson, not the 16's from the fletcher...

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This is flamu. Anything he says, I refuse to listen to cause he's a massive D-bag.

 

As for the Kidd....she's a bloody USN DD ffs! Shes not supposed to have awesome torps! Shes a gun boat! A GUN BOAT! A BOAT WITH GUNS! And they're AWESOME guns at that! Set her up for anti-DD operations and she'll sing a golden song.

 

Bloody hell people.... :fishpalm:

 

 

As a side note, I will be buying this ship the MOMENT it comes out. I love my Sims, and have been slowly grinding my way up the USN DD line recently, for the sole purpose of getting the Fletcher at tier 9. Having a dedicated tier 8 DD captain trainer will be AWESOME.


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Posted (edited) · Report post

 

Most USN DD's do not take AFT, some take BFT but its not a sure thing. Especially with SE/SI and DE all being in the same row. 

 

Remember more range on US DD's is a huge minus now, you want to keep your max range as low as possible. Hence why many players are selling the upgraded FCS for the stock one. 

 

For detection reasons now a days?

 

And whoever Suggested that the Akisuki needs more buffs needs to realize that it's one of the most over-performing DDs in the game currently.

 

Stop being greedy

Edited by Sakuzhi

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Posted (edited) · Report post

This is flamu. Anything he says, I refuse to listen to cause he's a massive D-bag.

 

As for the Kidd....she's a bloody USN DD ffs! Shes not supposed to have awesome torps! Shes a gun boat! A GUN BOAT! A BOAT WITH GUNS! And they're AWESOME guns at that! Set her up for anti-DD operations and she'll sing a golden song.

 

Bloody hell people.... :fishpalm:

 

 

As a side note, I will be buying this ship the MOMENT it comes out. I love my Sims, and have been slowly grinding my way up the USN DD line recently, for the sole purpose of getting the Fletcher at tier 9. Having a dedicated tier 8 DD captain trainer will be AWESOME.

 

A USN DD is not a gun boat. 

 

Its a support ship first and fore most. The number 1 reason why US DD's are brought into competitive matches is due to smoke / DF AA . 

 

US DD's are multi purpose ships that can fit into any role "admirably" 

 

It can use its guns well, but they are short range with a bad fire chance. German DD's and VMF DD's are much better gun boats then US DD's. 

 

it can use its torpedoes well, but they are low damage and slow (at lower tier) and at Tier X they have extremely long reload. German DD's (because of that beastly reload)  and IJN DD's (speed , damage and no of torpedoes)  have better torpedoes IMO. 

 

Can they be decent gun boats? sure.. But they aren't  pure gun boats.

 

Can they be decent torpedo boats? sure.. but they aren't pure torpedo boats. 

 

Can they be great support ships? Yes, this is something no other class brings to the table. 

 

Coupled with the fact that the Benson C hull has a much better rudder shift then the Kidd, with double the torpedo armament. I would personally take Benson C hull 10/10 over kidd in both randoms (especially in randoms) and in competition. 

 

For detection reasons now a days?

 

And whoever Suggested that the Akisuki needs more buffs needs to realize that it's one of the most over-performing DDs in the game currently.

 

Stop being greedy

 

Yea exactly, it may not seem like much but a 1km or 2 km different on max bloom can make a big different in certain situations. 

 

Edited by Cobraclutch

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If I stopped listening to community contributors that were excessively arrogant, that would be a whole lot more of them than just Flamu. The only thing I care about is how well they know their stuff. Flamu may be a lot of things, but an idiot is not one of them. I feel as if it's become 'trendy' to dump on him in these forums as of late. Anytime someone quotes him, there's always at least one or two who's sole comment is how much they hate him and refuse to listen to him.

 

As for Kidd vs C-hull Benson ... I was actually debating this myself. Unfortunately, I'm not home right now to compare the AA suites of both of them, so someone else may want to answer this one. That being said, I do feel the loss of half it's torpedo armament is a steep tradeoff. Although one thing could balance it out: give Kidd Fletcher's torps instead of Benson's.


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Posted (edited) · Report post

If I stopped listening to community contributors that were excessively arrogant, that would be a whole lot more of them than just Flamu. The only thing I care about is how well they know their stuff. Flamu may be a lot of things, but an idiot is not one of them. I feel as if it's become 'trendy' to dump on him in these forums as of late. Anytime someone quotes him, there's always at least one or two who's sole comment is how much they hate him and refuse to listen to him.

 

As for Kidd vs C-hull Benson ... I was actually debating this myself. Unfortunately, I'm not home right now to compare the AA suites of both of them, so someone else may want to answer this one. That being said, I do feel the loss of half it's torpedo armament is a steep tradeoff. Although one thing could balance it out: give Kidd Fletcher's torps instead of Benson's.

 

 

I think the most annoying part is the Kidd gets a worse rudder shift then the benson C hull.. 

 

All this to say I hope they buff her. She makes a horrible captain trainer for any USN DD captain not specced into AA..  AFAIK the Sims is a better trainer ATM then the Kidd due to the xp bonus and being a more traditional USN DD. 

Edited by Cobraclutch

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Posted (edited) · Report post

As for Kidd vs C-hull Benson ... I was actually debating this myself. Unfortunately, I'm not home right now to compare the AA suites of both of them, so someone else may want to answer this one.

 

C Hull Benson's AA Suite-

4x1 20mm for ~14 DPS @ 2.0 km

2x2 40mm for ~23 DPS @ 3.5 km

4x1 127mm for ~43 DPS @ 5.0 km

Total DPS: ~80

 

Kidd's AA Suite

6x2 20mm for ~37 DPS @ 2.0 km

3x2 + 2x4 40mm for ~66 DPS @ 3.5 km

5x1 127mm for ~54 DPS @ 5.0 km

Total DPS: ~157

 

Interestingly, Gearing's AA Suite

12x1 20mm for ~43 DPS @ 2.0 km

2x2 + 2x4 40mm for ~55 DPS @ 3.5 km

3x2 127mm for ~45 DPS @ 5.0 km

Total DPS: ~143

 

 

So, as it stands, Kidd has slightly better-than-Gearing levels of base AA in a T8 platform.

 

 

Edited by landcollector

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