Ulthwey

A tiny experiment. Want to play tier 8? Get matched against tier Xs in 11/11 games

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Same. Last night it was just abominable - one defeat after another, all while I was sailing a ship downtiered twice. Every so often, I do make a significant impact in those matches, even when I'm handicapped in such a way. But it isn't common - it can't be; Warspite is not equal to Alabama; Tirpitz isn't equivalent to Yamato. Skill alone cannot overcome deficits of that magnitude, and I am no unicum to begin with.

 

Yeah I've been tracking this.

 

I've been recording my matches since last week.

 

out of 32 matches in tiers 5-8, I have been bottom tier 29 times. Tier doesn't matter, chances are I'll be bottom.

 

Tier 5? Fought tier 7s 8/8 times.

Tier 6? Fight tier 8s 8/9 times.

Tier 7? Fight tier 9s 9/10 times.

Tier 8? Fight tier 10s 4/5 times.

 

Bonus round: my 3 tier 9 games were all in tier 10 matches as well.

 

It makes me not want to play anymore. I'm not good enough at this game to find this kind of deck-stacking fun.

 


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Posted (edited) · Report post

 

That's not a high-tier thing really, so much as a CL thing.

 

No, it's a CA problem too.

 

The difference between tier 8 and tier 9, when it comes to cruisers, is HUGE. In large part due to the reload mod and Repair Party.

 

Hipper has has eight guns firing every 13 seconds. Roon has nine guns firing every 8.8 seconds + Repair Party.

Same applies to New Orleans, although in a less obvious way. Nine guns firing every 12 seconds compared to Baltimore's nine guns firing every 8.8 seconds + Repair Party.

 

Seriously, Tier 8 cruisers NEED Repair Party. NEED. New Orleans, Hipper and Mogami are not in a great place right now because they are going up against opponents who can all heal back from making mistakes. Hell, there are two DESTROYERS in their matchmaking spread that have Repair Party now. And having played NO and Hipper, I can absolutely tell you my ability to contribute was night and day between tiers 8 and 9.

Edited by KaptainKaybe

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the way i see it there are several major probloems that are causing this uptiuer tenancy.

 

1. Crappy tier 9's. Most of the Tier 9's are pretty crappy, and they are nearly as expensive to run as a T10, so becuase of this, T9 is a rather unpopular tier with a lower population than 8 or 10, so when the T8's are uptiered, there aren't enough 9's around in the tiers so getting uptiered in an 8 almost always mean there will be 10's involved.

 

2. Crappy T8 cruisers. Most of the battleships and destroyers uptier fairly well. T8 battleships can handle fighting T10's very well as long as one of those T10 BB's isn't yamato. But the T8 cruisers are in general crappy, except for Kutuzov and maybe mogami and Endinburgh. Otherwise most of the others are pretty crappy, with New Orleans being god awful, and honestly that ship is a T7 more than a T8. I blame this trend back when Wargaming decided to switch the tiers of Mogami and myoko way beck before CBT, and yoko was actually a better cruiser than Mogami becuase of better rate of fire. and wargaming idiotically decided to continue this trend of making the T8's for some reason have less firepower than the T7's, becuase of the trend set by mogami and Myoko over 2 years ago. And they still haven't fully fixed it. Myoko's 8 inch DPM is still higher than Mogami's, and she has better HP, though only by a 100. But they have stubbornly kept this annoying trend of making the T8 cruisers have barely better firepower, and in some cases worse than the T7. Only the new french cruisers and the recent New Orleans buffs have broken this trend.  So T8 cruisers are a trainwreck and have been a trainwreck for a long time.

 

3. Unpopular T7's. Lets face it, T7 has never been a popular tier. No other tier in the game has had such a collection of garbage ships at t7. While some of them aren't garbage any more, ships that are garbage or have been garbage include, Colorado, Pensacola, Mahan, Ranger, the old T7 hatsuharu, and Yorck, while Hyriu and Nagato are both pretty meh. So as a result, T7 isn't exactly the most popular tier, i would say the T8 population is much larger than T7. Not to mention Nagato and Colorado uptier absolutely horribly because of their 25 mm bow plates making them so vulnerable to overmatch so that alone makes them less than the most popular.

 

4. Making T4 protected. This one really messed with T5 MM because it put the T5s at the -1/+2. Combined with the fact that T5's are relatively popular, there arent enough T4's alone of facilitate a lot of matches where T5's are top tier. And naturally this affected the 6's as well. So the already limited population of T7's is almost always pulled into matches where they are top tier, not leaving enough 6's and 7's for the T8's to draw on.

 

Honestly the fix that needs to be applied here is removal of protected MM for the low tiers. New players already have protected MM where their first 20 to 50 matches they are only matched with other new players, so making T1 having exclusive MM was completely redundant. They never should have done that. So what they need to do is restore the Tier 1's to their original state then allow them to be tiered with T2's. End the protected MM at T3, so T3's will see 5's again, but buff the range for many of the T3's so they uptier better. Shouldn't be necessary for the T3 battleships as one of the reasons they uptiered so poorly was their limited range. That's not a problem anymore, they can handle uptiering better now. this will unfuck the MM for T4 and 5 and end the damn domino Effect.

 

Fix T7 and 9, for the love of god make those ships at those tiers that are still noncompetitive, make them competitive, and really this need to apply to all tiers. some tiers have a greater amount of crappy ships than others, and when that happens it creates unbalanced tier populations and contributes to certain tiers getting uptiered more often than others.. Likewise, fix the T8 cruisers. Buff their DPM so they are no longer out DPM'ed by the T7 cruisers and give all of them except Kutuzov a heal.

 

 


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No, it's a CA problem too.

 

The difference between tier 8 and tier 9, when it comes to cruisers, is HUGE. In large part due to the reload mod and Repair Party.

 

Hipper has has eight guns firing every 13 seconds. Roon has nine guns firing every 8.8 seconds + Repair Party.

Same applies to New Orleans, although in a less obvious way. Nine guns firing every 12 seconds compared to Baltimore's nine guns firing every 8.8 seconds + Repair Party.

 

Seriously, Tier 8 cruisers NEED Repair Party. NEED. New Orleans, Hipper and Mogami are not in a great place right now because they are going up against opponents who can all heal back from making mistakes. Hell, there are two DESTROYERS in their matchmaking spread that have Repair Party now. And having played NO and Hipper, I can absolutely tell you my ability to contribute was night and day between tiers 8 and 9.

 

True. I had forgotten about the heal. I know it sure makes a difference when I play Leander or Spee.


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Posted (edited) · Report post

I think it's pretty obvious why uptiering occurs - there are less games being played in low tier ships.

Edited by Xenomancers

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Normally I can put up with the wonderful piss pour excuse for an abortion that WG titles "matchmaking". This past weekend however, I decided to play tier 8s to check just how bad the matchmaking is for this particular tier - and I was simply appalled by what I just experienced. I played 11 games in a row in a tier 8, and got tier X matchmaking in all 11/11 games that I played. I played solo, during about 6-7pm central time when there are plenty of people online so server depopulation is NOT supposed to be an issue. Nevertheless, in 11/11 games I ended up being bottom tier.

 

In regards to win/loss ratio, that is not a concern at least for myself. However what I experienced did strike a nerve in particular to the extend to which tier 8 is f*cked over in this game. According to WG matchmaking is working the way it should ... so yea, apparently sh*tting on its players without having the decency of calling it rain is the new norm for WG.

 

Just fyi ...

Stop complaining and see it as an opportunity for better rewards. You get more xp and credits for damaging ships higher tier than you. Don't be a fool and take on t10 ships alone as an 8. Any bad results at that point are your fault.


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Being top tier is not always what it's cracked up to be. You carry more responsibility to win the match and naturally some poor decision or an unfortunate spread of torps from some up-tiered wannabe curtails your ambitions. I'd rather be up-tiered and surpass expectations. 


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Being top tier is not always what it's cracked up to be. You carry more responsibility to win the match and naturally some poor decision or an unfortunate spread of torps from some up-tiered wannabe curtails your ambitions. I'd rather be up-tiered and surpass expectations. 

 

eh, it's one thing to get bottom tiered from time to time. It's another if that's all you get, then furthermore, if you get the 5+ DD a side match at T8-10 in your NC.

 

Just..bleh, 


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It was a long tough day in tier 8. Bismarck fared better than my NC, but both suffered. Just had to suck it up and keep going. The thing that's been helping me is ignoring the stats as best I can and just try to play better than the last game.

 

Oddly enough, I don't have much of any trouble with my Bismarck grind, whether top of bottom tier. There's a rather simple tactic for generating consistent damage even against t10 BBs.  When you have anything other than a perfect broadside shot on a BB, aim for the superstructure, particularly against German BBs. If your aim is good and you're good at angling your armor and evading enemy fire (as best as you can in a battleship, of course), you can produce solid damage production games even when you're bottom tier.

 


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eh, it's one thing to get bottom tiered from time to time. It's another if that's all you get, then furthermore, if you get the 5+ DD a side match at T8-10 in your NC.

 

Just..bleh, 

 

To be honest, dealing with 5+ torpedo oriented DD's is a lot easier in NC than a T10 BB' because NC is so much more maneuverable.

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Flip side.  Been running the Bis all morning to ruin the moral of all the Hood drivers, and haven't seen a T10 yet.


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Being top tier is not always what it's cracked up to be. You carry more responsibility to win the match and naturally some poor decision or an unfortunate spread of torps from some up-tiered wannabe curtails your ambitions. I'd rather be up-tiered and surpass expectations. 

 

Depends on how confident you are that you can consistently perform, I suppose.

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i still stand by tier 8 being the worse tier behind tier 6.  most of my tier 8s WR is meh at best but you can still do ok, as long as you dont derp or get stuck on a bunch of bad teams,

 

I had the NC at 55-58% through 100 games, then it went downhill on the last grind to the iowa, dropping below 50%.(i was on a lot of really dumb teams the last week or 2 i had it)   most of those matches were in tier 9 or 10 matches.  i was rarely top tier.  and i did all that without buying any upgrades for the ship after researching them(so really just the hull upgrade, as range upgrade is a waste).  didn't have the credits to spend or those credits were meant for other ship lines.(no prem time or prem ships)

 

my benson, which was my first tier 8, was constantly in tier 9 and 10 matches. that was 49% WR, coming down from the 66% i had in the mahan.(and that was before the captain skill changes, mainly without CE) granted, i was also trying to get use to the "different" play style that tier 9 and 10 matches are/were.

 

The NO is another 49% with a similar story to the above.  This was mainly before the reload buff, but i never got to experience the NO after the concealment buff(which sounds great) as i was already at the balti. 

 

the lexington... well idk about it. 40 odd %  WR.  lots of tier 10 matches where your planes get vaporized without you knowing they were being fired at until they drop or just high loses.  i actually haven't been doing too bad after getting off the awful 1/1/1 loadout. in fact, if i wasn't so stubborn one day where i just kept playing and playing and losing something like 10-15 matches in a row, my WR would be good and probably above 50%.  about a 1/3 of those matches were being out played, or just out done thanks to the poor starting loadout.  quite a few of my matches that i lost weren't because the enemy CV outplayed me.  I normally shut them down, or slowed them down my teams AA could do the rest. quite a few matches i am confident i out damaged them or at least did the same amount they did.(even against IJN CVs) their strikes didn't get through, or the one or 2 bomb hits they got just weren't enough.    now don't get me wrong, i am average at CVs imo.(50% roughly across the board)  i guess the other issue is that the lex is so large that it can be seen from the enemy spawn, or their side of the caps depending on the map.  which means i have to pull way back or suffer the "its a CV, drop everything and shoot it!" syndrome.  the other option is to go forward and find some island to hide behind and stay close to the fight which is very risky, and sometimes not even doable depending on the map and spawn.  just another advantage the IJN CVs have on top of their faster load times on their squadrons. 

 

 

i am currently above 50% in my Bis.  granted, the bis, as all german BBs are, are easy to play.  Not to mention all the other neat stuff the bis gets over the gnies.  its nice knowing you cant be deleted like every other ship in the game.

 

tier 9 on the other hand is all above 50% WR.(i think 55% on all my tier 9s)  not being bottom tier seemingly all the time, on top of other perks(like better ships and another module) helps. 


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True. I had forgotten about the heal. I know it sure makes a difference when I play Leander or Spee.

 

It's one of the reasons why I love the Spee. She is MUCH more durable than other cruisers at her tier. When I fight other cruisers with her, there's really only way that will end.

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Personally, I don't mind getting up tiered in my Leander - it provides an opportunity for higher XP from damaging tier 8 battleships. This is fortunate, because I am up tiered almost all of the time. 


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That's great advice for anyone grinding through tiers 5 or 8.

 

Or for those who use some of the many, many tier 5 or tier 8 premium ships, that they paid real money for, for credit/convertible XP farming.

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Very interesting read.  

I now finally understand what has been that causing nagging feeling throughout winter as I finally reached tier 8 in my cruisers 

I'm cruiser captain almost 70 percent of the time I have Japan us German and Russia tier 8 cruisers now

 

The worth possible match in game today is to play stock tier 8 cruiser

 

 


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I concur with many points:

 

1. Tier VIII ships are primarily nothing but an obstacle on the way to Tier X. The desire to avoid playing these ships in Tier X matches is quite strong. If the choice is to play a Tier X match in Hindenburg or Khabarovsk versus the exact same matchmaking in a Tier VIII... Well, that's an easy choice

 

2. Tier VII I regard this as a dumping ground for unappealing ships, generally. Good MM? Not good enough.

 

I suppose that's all part of the plan... Spend the money on converting to free exp, skip the pain.


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It's one of the reasons why I love the Spee. She is MUCH more durable than other cruisers at her tier. When I fight other cruisers with her, there's really only way that will end.

 

One thing I like about the Spee is that it makes a good trainer for BB captains as well as CA captains, as a lot of the BB skills suit her better than they would another premium CL/CA.


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