Ulthwey

A tiny experiment. Want to play tier 8? Get matched against tier Xs in 11/11 games

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I don't mind playing tier 8 with the +2/-2 with my destroyers only. They are fast, nimble, and easy to hide so things are not terrible for them. I get most frustrated with my only tier 8 cruiser which is a premium Atago that I have been using to grind up my IJN captains and only use it for that. Get a first win bonus and let it be, normally takes a few games. Because of the matchmaking I have ceased almost all upward momentum on every single line of ships. It is frustrating to get hammered by the same class of ships at ranges you can not respond to. You can not move close in to support your destroyers in a cruiser because you will get deleted by the tier 9 and 10's. You can not stay back and hang with the battleships because there is nothing for you to shoot at. All you can manage to do is hide behind a rock somewhere and hope you can get an ambush. Heck even the higher tiered DDs are not scared of you due to the massive rate of fire and maneuverability advantage they have against your lower tiered cruiser. Get really tired of the people saying they can do just fine being uptiered, you know what, if tiers do not matter, remove all of them. Let the tier 6's slaughter the tier 4's, am sure there are plenty if players that can "do well" in their Kumas (or whatnot) against Clevelands and the like. IMHO having to have a +2/-2 matchmaking shows how weak the game really is. You are unable to attract and keep players because the game is becoming a miserable experience. Because the game punishes tier 10 players economically, they decided to sacrifice the "up and comers" as targets for them to pad their stats. It is pitiful and embarrassing to hear someone brag about how good their are because of "stats" when the real statistics should be recorded about how good they do against COMPARABLE ships (tier wise).


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I don't mind playing tier 8 with the +2/-2 with my destroyers only. They are fast, nimble, and easy to hide so things are not terrible for them. I get most frustrated with my only tier 8 cruiser which is a premium Atago that I have been using to grind up my IJN captains and only use it for that. Get a first win bonus and let it be, normally takes a few games. Because of the matchmaking I have ceased almost all upward momentum on every single line of ships. It is frustrating to get hammered by the same class of ships at ranges you can not respond to. You can not move close in to support your destroyers in a cruiser because you will get deleted by the tier 9 and 10's. You can not stay back and hang with the battleships because there is nothing for you to shoot at. All you can manage to do is hide behind a rock somewhere and hope you can get an ambush. Heck even the higher tiered DDs are not scared of you due to the massive rate of fire and maneuverability advantage they have against your lower tiered cruiser. Get really tired of the people saying they can do just fine being uptiered, you know what, if tiers do not matter, remove all of them. Let the tier 6's slaughter the tier 4's, am sure there are plenty if players that can "do well" in their Kumas (or whatnot) against Clevelands and the like. IMHO having to have a +2/-2 matchmaking shows how weak the game really is. You are unable to attract and keep players because the game is becoming a miserable experience. Because the game punishes tier 10 players economically, they decided to sacrifice the "up and comers" as targets for them to pad their stats. It is pitiful and embarrassing to hear someone brag about how good their are because of "stats" when the real statistics should be recorded about how good they do against COMPARABLE ships (tier wise).

 

I find Atago uptiers very well, on account of having her heal, and having the second highest HP in the IJN cruiser line. Edited by Destroyer_Radford

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Being bottom tier in battleships and destroyers is not so bad as they are still reasonably competitive.

 

Being bottom tier in a cruiser without Repair Party or Smoke means you are completely f*cking hosed. ALL tier 8 cruisers should have access to Repair Party now, or just continuously get sh*t on in tier 10 matches.


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I find Atago uptiers very well, on account of having her heal, and having the second highest HP in the IJN cruiser line.

 

Well it helps, the biggest problem is the ranges and rates of fire of the upper tiered cruisers. When I do get in range, they fire SEEMINGLY twice as fast as I do. Watching a Neptune or Minotaur spew out a continuous line of AP shells from smoke is annoying. I usually get off two salvos before being deleted if I try and fight or lose half my health trying to escape. Either way it makes for a miserable gaming experience. What I have taken to is staying hidden and using my torps until I have no choice but to use my guns. I play her like a DD and that seems to help some but the minute I am spotted, I do not have the speed or agility to get out of Dodge before getting annihilated.

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When I used to play WoWP, they decided to limit the MM to a 1 tier spread. It completely hosed up the queue times and players were waiting 5 minutes and more for a match. They are probably nervous about making changes in fear it will cause the same problem here, although there is a much larger player population here. In any case, we must be careful about what we wish for. Just when you think it can't get worse, it does. :sceptic:

 


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One ship or ship type happens to uptier well, therefore uptiering is OK?

 

 

When I used to play WoWP, they decided to limit the MM to a 1 tier spread. It completely hosed up the queue times and players were waiting 5 minutes and more for a match. They are probably nervous about making changes in fear it will cause the same problem here, although there is a much larger player population here. In any case, we must be careful about what we wish for. Just when you think it can't get worse, it does. :sceptic:

 

WoWP was DOA. You are referring to an incomparable situation.

 


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When I used to play WoWP, they decided to limit the MM to a 1 tier spread. It completely hosed up the queue times and players were waiting 5 minutes and more for a match. They are probably nervous about making changes in fear it will cause the same problem here, although there is a much larger player population here. In any case, we must be careful about what we wish for. Just when you think it can't get worse, it does. :sceptic:

 

+1/-1 was the meta here in WoWS when I started. Every once in a while someone would complain, but mostly it was a non issue. The problem was at upper tiers where there are fewer players, the economy was (and IMHO still is) broken and they had long queue times. Wargaming "fixed" this by increasing the spread to 2 at everyone beyond tier 4 which gave the high tiers more targets to shoot at with shorter queue times. This annihilated the really fun tiers of 5 thru 8, again my opinion. I can tell you this, since the change, there has been more people complaining in the forums about it than there was before. The upper tier players (9 & 10) have no complaints because their queue times are short and they are facing decidedly inferior opponents. This allows a decent player at those tiers to gain better stats so they like it. The problem is with average players grinding up from 5 like myself, to get disgusted with the game and pretty much quit caring about the matches. I went from "fighting to win" to "fighting to get what I need for campaigns/missions and everything else be damned". On the upside the higher tiered players who supported the change will end up with me on their team eventually.  

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I hate tier 8 now. I played 6 consecutive games in a row tonight uptiered to tier 10, and lost 5 of them. It's just ridiculous - I'm so tired of matchmaking in this game. 


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I hate tier 8 now. I played 6 consecutive games in a row tonight uptiered to tier 10, and lost 5 of them. It's just ridiculous - I'm so tired of matchmaking in this game. 

 

A lot of the veterans are, too. WG has been ignoring the signs so far but this current state of affairs is slowly eating away at the core audience of dedicated whales who like to play their T5-8 premiums, as well as those more casual players who used to farm silver T5-6 ships for credits to progress in the tech tree. I believe WG is biting the hand that feeds the company without really recognizing what's going on.


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A lot of the veterans are, too. WG has been ignoring the signs so far but this current state of affairs is slowly eating away at the core audience of dedicated whales who like to play their T5-8 premiums, as well as those more casual players who used to farm silver T5-6 ships for credits to progress in the tech tree. I believe WG is biting the hand that feeds the company without really recognizing what's going on.

 

Yup. I was tempted to shell out $100 for the epic Hood, but I've decided to just wait until the 9th and get the bare-bones one - I always liked the Repulse camo, anyway, and I just can't see dropping a hundred bucks in a game I might not even be playing in 6 months. Nothing ever changes here. WG promises a carrier revamp, and they seem to have totally backed off on it, every new map introduced seems to be worse than the last, and we haven't gotten a new game mode in nearly a year. Why should I keep dumping money into a product that doesn't appear to do anything with my cash other than release new lines? I can only grind so many trees before I'm left with a pile of firewood and a blunt axe to grind.

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Posted (edited) · Report post

 

A lot of the veterans are, too. WG has been ignoring the signs so far but this current state of affairs is slowly eating away at the core audience of dedicated whales who like to play their T5-8 premiums, as well as those more casual players who used to farm silver T5-6 ships for credits to progress in the tech tree. I believe WG is biting the hand that feeds the company without really recognizing what's going on.

 

Yep. I can totally agree with this. I think it would help a lot if WG said "Look, we know we screwed T5-6, but here's the data that shows it is good for the overall state of the game. This change has made it grow and ensured the long term survival of WOWs." Many of us would be more comfortable.

 

But of course, we don't see any obvious positives, and I don't see any great jump in the server population. I dont buy premiums from those tiers any more, skipped Alabama, and will likely skip the Hood and the T7 Amagi reskin as well. 

 

Sad. Miss the days of pew pew pew in my Murmansk. 

Edited by Taichunger

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Think of all the extra damage you can farm in tier X matches...

 


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But WG says +2 MM is balanced and everyone loves it. It's killing tiers 5 and 6 and sucks all the way up to tier 9 where you can only face +1. But the high tier guys say having tier 4 protected is the problem. I think not.

 

To be fair, the "high tier guys" are right in regards to some of the people. Many people had no issues with MM when their Tier 5 and 6 ships weren't down 2 tiers more than half the time.


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Posted (edited) · Report post

When I used to play WoWP, they decided to limit the MM to a 1 tier spread. It completely hosed up the queue times and players were waiting 5 minutes and more for a match. They are probably nervous about making changes in fear it will cause the same problem here, although there is a much larger player population here. In any case, we must be careful about what we wish for. Just when you think it can't get worse, it does. :sceptic:

 

Why can't we have +1/-1 MM and go to +2/-2 if queue times are getting too long at lower population hours?

Edited by Slimeball91

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Well it helps, the biggest problem is the ranges and rates of fire of the upper tiered cruisers. When I do get in range, they fire SEEMINGLY twice as fast as I do. Watching a Neptune or Minotaur spew out a continuous line of AP shells from smoke is annoying. I usually get off two salvos before being deleted if I try and fight or lose half my health trying to escape. 

 

That's not a high-tier thing really, so much as a CL thing.


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Why can't we have +1/-1 MM and go to +2/-2 if queue times are getting too long at lower population hours?

 

"Too much programming"

"Server load"

 

The same excuses for why USN BB armor belts don't get their tapers shown by breaking up the belt into different strips of varying thickness. 

 

Meanwhile other BBs are chalk full of like a dozen different armor strips on things like barbets and armor belts.

 


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Think of all the extra damage you can farm in tier X matches...

 

 

I know everybody's experiences are different, but my damage output is pretty similar regardless of placement, and I do notice appreciably greater rewards in Tier 10 matches.

 

 


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That's not a high-tier thing really, so much as a CL thing.

 

I play cruisers mostly (ok maybe DDs as much) and this has not been my experience. Heck I even enjoyed Emerald. 

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Okay I know I haven't played in a while as I recoup from surgery but for Tier 6 I found the Bayern to actually not do badly, not outstanding, but I feel I can contribute to the team. At T8 it is my Amagi which is the work horse. I already have both the NorCal and Iowa so trying to grind up the IJN line.


 

With the Amagi I usually try to find a division to team up with and support them as best I can. I know I can contribute in T9 and T10 battles in this ship and if I can find the right group of captains to support then this BB can become a monster securing kills. The Amagi is what I will be using for the new event starting today.


 

So, overall I expect to be the lowest on the totem pole each fight and do what I can to accept the MM challenge. If it gets too much I will drop into PvE with friends and just have fun.


 

Row


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This shows that the amount of players playing T9 is very small

 

Not surprising. It's a tier filled with a lot of very unfun ships that almost never enjoy top seeding, either.

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I want to be clear that I, personally, have no problem fighting two tiers up.

 

What I have a problem with is fighting two tiers up all the time.

 

Being bottom tier is stressful. You have to be at the top of your game to be competitive in the match and to have an impact. If this happens every game (or nearly every game) than it gets pretty mentally tiring and results in less play overall. Only an idiot can't recognize this. Being bottom tier 9 out of 10 games in tier 5, 6, or 7 is just as stressful as playing tier 10 for 10 matches where you have to do your absolute best every single time. There's no reprieve. There's no break. There's no time to relax.


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I want to be clear that I, personally, have no problem fighting two tiers up.

 

What I have a problem with is fighting two tiers up all the time.

 

Being bottom tier is stressful. You have to be at the top of your game to be competitive in the match and to have an impact. If this happens every game (or nearly every game) than it gets pretty mentally tiring and results in less play overall. Only an idiot can't recognize this. Being bottom tier 9 out of 10 games in tier 5, 6, or 7 is just as stressful as playing tier 10 for 10 matches where you have to do your absolute best every single time. There's no reprieve. There's no break. There's no time to relax.

 

Same. Last night it was just abominable - one defeat after another, all while I was sailing a ship downtiered twice. Every so often, I do make a significant impact in those matches, even when I'm handicapped in such a way. But it isn't common - it can't be; Warspite is not equal to Alabama; Tirpitz isn't equivalent to Yamato. Skill alone cannot overcome deficits of that magnitude, and I am no unicum to begin with.

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Well hey at least you didn't just quit when you spawned in because tier 10... Had an Atago just last night, spawn then say "I'm not wasting my time with this tier 10 camp fest" then left (SHOCKER, he was pink).... well lucky for him we stomped the team, man last night was rough for a weekday night.

 

I also don't mind +-2 MM for the most part, though as others have stated, it happens too often.. I would also like a test of +1-1 just too see what its like.

Edited by bewbs_

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Well hey at least you didn't just quit when you spawned in because tier 10... Had an Atago just last night, spawn then say "I'm not wasting my time with this tier 10 camp fest" then left (SHOCKER, he was pink).... well lucky for him we stomped the team, man last night was rough for a weekday night.

 

I also don't mind +-2 MM for the most part, though as others have stated, it happens too often.. I would also like a test of +1-1 just too see what its like.

 

I once had a guy in a match sail directly into the arms of the enemy because our team had 2 Nagatos, and that's "the worst boat in the game, so we're going to lose anyway, so I'd rather just die quickly." People never cease to amaze. Never. 

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