Suggestion: Fire Control Party

[UltimateNewbie]

From time to time, people* make angry posts complaining about how strong fires are; that their metal floating city appears to be covered in petrol and burns to the waterline at the drop of the smallest match; it is totally implausible in the "real world" that such gnats of an enemy could seriously hurt, let alone regularly kill, such kings of the high seas.  Chief amongst these complaints is that - unlike AP - there is nothing they can do (angling, etc) that can stop these fires from sprining up all over the hull.

 

My personal view is that fires are an important balance mechanism in this arcade game.  It is essential that cruisers (and cruiser-destroyers, like the Russian DD line) have a means of engaging such a common type of ship because, otherwise, no one would drive cruisers - which means destroyers would run amok and battleship drivers would cry about the sea full of torpedoes from enemies they cannot see.  And battleships wouldnt have anything they could 1 shot and watch the large damage numbers roll up on their screens.  So, everyone loses.

 

Why? I am concerned that WG's stoicism in front of the complaints is not sustainable.  To pre-empt WG going over the top by gimping fire chance, fire damage (or anything similar) in their typically heavy handed/over the top way, it might be beneficial to consider practical alternatives that might mitigate the complaints but retain the core mechanism.  Thus, I propose: 

 

The Fire Control Party

 

Just as the Damage Control Party magically puts out all fires and flooding immediately ("realism"), and prevents new ones from starting within a certain timeframe ("realism"), but is subject to a cooldown, I suggest a new mechanic to help mitigate fires.  Throughout, I am suggesting numbers to start a discussion - obviously, I would only support numbers that were reasonably balanced by in-game testing. 

 

What happens if the fire brigade was just across the street before a house fire?  Would the damage be so bad?  In this naval context, imagine a fire surpression team that, if they were on site when a fire just starts, they have a chance to put the fire out before it takes hold.  

 

How this could be represented in game:

• All ships come with a Fire Control Party.
• Divide the ship up into four separate sections, each matching the same places the fires can start (bow, forward superstructure, aft superstructure, quarterdeck).  
  • For those using the Tier 4 Captain Skill 'Fire Prevention', I propose that your ship would still be four sections, but the Fire Control Party would be considered located in both superstructure sections.  
• If a Fire Control Party is present in the section where a fire has just started, a 20 per cent chance to extinguish the fire after 5 seconds. 
• The player controls which section the Fire Control Party is present in (eg, pressing Shift+W to move them forward, and Shift+S to send them aft, similar to how engine throttle works). 
• It takes time for the Fire Control Party to move from section to section (outlined in the table below).  
• If a Fire Control Team is travelling, it is not in effect (ie, unlike the Duke of York's men, it is neither here nor there). 
• Potential for a national flavour variable - certain nations have excellent/garbage Fire Control Parties with buffed/nerfed abilities.  

 

Travel Time - reflecting the idea that bigger (longer) ships take more time for people to run from bow to stern (and back).  

Class	Time (s)
Destroyer	2.5
Crusier	5.0
Battleship	7.5
Carrier	10.0

(Ie, given they are already in place, it would take 3x 2.5 = 7.5 seconds for a DD to go from bow to stern, or 3x 10 = 30 seconds for a CV).  

 

Pros and Cons

Pro

• Pro: Deals with fire-crying without going over the top.  It also has some logical basis.  
• Pro: Importantly, provides some degree of player control to the chance of mitigating fire.  This means that good players who can anticipate the likely place a fire will start can, in advance, redistribute their resources to help reduce the damage.  Terribad players will continue to be terribad.  
• Pro: Importantly, the player who started the fire will still do some damage (though only, eg, 5 seconds).  This means fires  still start, and fires on ultra-low HP ships will still be fatal.  
• Pro: Fire damage could actually increase, if people wait 6 seconds to see if the fire goes out from this mechanic before they hit Damage Control Party.
• Pro: There is still strong incentives for survivability builds to reduce overall damage from fires (and flooding), thereby not junking people's existing builds. 
• Pro: Potential for national flavour that can be a proxy for seamanship/experience/readiness (eg, high for Royal Navy, low for Soviet Navy). 

Con

• Con: It gives into the crying about fires. Perhaps WG was just going to ignore the pleas forever?
• Con: More complicated than doing nothing at all.
• Con: Crap players will continue to be crap and will continue to complain about fires.  At least, now we'll be able to put some blame back onto the player in question.  
• Con: Still RNG/chance based in a game with lots of RNG rolls.  Praise be to RNGeesus. 
• Others?

 

I would be grateful for your views, particularly to improve the idea so that it isnt rubbish. Discuss.

 

*Battleship drivers.  Yes, I used the term loosely.  

 

To assist you in calling me, derisively, just a BB main complaining about fires, here is a link to my Warships Today page.  

[RivertheRoyal]

I seems to me like this simply overcomplicates a mechanic the majority are completely fine with. 

Why not just leave things as is? 

[RogueFlameHaze]

I seems to me like this simply overcomplicates a mechanic the majority are completely fine with. 

Why not just leave things as is? 

 

Gonna go with this one. WG seems to want to smooth and simplify the game a bit, not overcomplecate everything too much.

[m373x]

There is absolutely no need to implement this. Nobody is complaining about fires and people who do so are the kind of people you don't want in your games anyway. No need to nerf fires any further as fire prevention skill is very strong and fire damage is 100% healable.

[UltimateNewbie]

I seems to me like this simply overcomplicates a mechanic the majority are completely fine with. 

Why not just leave things as is? 

 

 

Gonna go with this one. WG seems to want to smooth and simplify the game a bit, not overcomplecate everything too much.

 

I realise this is more complicated than doing nothing.  Like I said, I am concerned that doing nothing is not sustainable, so making a simple change now might mitigate bigger (more suboptimal) changes later. 

 

As for the complexity of this suggestion, how it would work in game is pretty simple.  Just as you now move your throttle from Flank, 3/4, 1/2, 1/4, Stop and Reverse, you would move your fire control team from Bow, Forward Superstructure, Aft Superstructure, and Quarterdeck, with a simple Shift+W or Shift+S.  And from time to time, you'd get lucky with a fire that stops after 5 seconds; other times you would receive full damage.

 

As far as game mechanics go, its pretty simple to explain.  Much simpler than autobounce.  

[vak_]

Too complex. Fires are fine right now, and have been fine for a while. 

[UltimateNewbie]

Nobody is complaining about fires

 

I dont believe that this is correct. 

 

and people who do so are the kind of people you don't want in your games anyway.

 

That might be true, but I suspect they'll be in the game for a while yet.  Plus this doesnt stop WG from making a change out of the blue anyway - such as open water stealth fire (though I did personally agree with that change, and the difference between fires and that was that OWSF was a broken mechanic).  

[Umikami]

I dont believe that this is correct.

 

I agree with this; people ARE complaining. Battleship drivers are especially vulnerable to fire; cruiser drivers also.

(CV Captains are also susceptable, but it's a carrier and part of the deal is it burns real well, and everyone hates carriers anyways)

 

 

But fire is needed as a counter to 12K + Alpha strikes by battlewagons; how else are you going to stop a battleship other than through attrition?

 

 

No one likes dying; I certainly don't like it when I'm insta-deleted by a single salvo from an enemy ship. Battleship drivers face the frustration of having many such mechanics threatening their ships at every turn, like fire, flooding, module disablement; and these things cannot be fought, just endured.

 

 

Damage control already puts out fires; premium damage control puts out fires faster because of a faster reload. Repair, the MOST unrealistic mechanic in the game, actually allows you to heal all that damage back. So I am going to disagree with you and say this new mechanic is not really needed.

 

 

 

 

[vak_]

this doesnt stop WG from making a change out of the blue anyway - such as open water stealth fire

 

WG was unhappy with OWSF for a long time, and ever since KM DDs came out it was obvious that they were going to remove it eventually. But they are perfectly happy with the way fires are right now, and have stated that time and time again.

 

People that complain about fires just don't know how to play well, or have a huge illogical bias for one reason or another. 

[DOCTOR_CITADEL]

Fires, as they currently are, are fine. 

 

I'm a BB main at heart and I still feel this to be firmly the case, especially now that BBs have access to the Fire Prevention skill. I'd be willing to bet that the majority of BB players that cry about fires being overpowered are the ones that *only* play BBs.

 

BBs are able to put out massive alpha strikes that can do serious damage to any class in the game. They have huge amounts of armor, hit points, and the ability to heal a lot of damage for a reason. If DDs and CA/CLs didn't have a way to fight back effectively, i.e. fires, then where would the balance be? Sure, fires suck when you are playing a BB. Nobody likes putting out 2-4 fires only to have 2-4 more stick right afterwards; it's usually a death sentence.

 

I hate being on fire and I hate flooding even more. However, these are necessary evils so that DDs and CA/CLs have the ability to fight back without just being BB fodder.

 

TLDR; BBs have the ability to alpha strike things with slow-firing guns, CA/CLs and DDs have the ability to burn down things over time with fast firing guns. Seems balanced to me. 

[Shadowrigger1]

very well thought out idea.. but as others have said, it's an over complication.     being this is a pretty moron friendly game, in the way of making it as dumbed down as possible for the potatoes.   a simpler way to do it would be to reduce fire chance on shells dramatically, but increasing HE damage Alpha to compensate, while also reducing the damage reduction over time to specific sections of the ship.    But this will be met with the typical. 

 

 

Fire is fine. learn to manage your DC parties and heals.

[m373x]

I dont believe that this is correct. 

 

 

 

Can you give me links to the latest "fire complaints" threads (at least 2)?

[StingRayOne]

Have you been on a ship at sea on fire?

perhaps under battle?

there is a random chance in battle that your damage control parties are incapacitated and therefore your crew are forced to deal with the damage and the fire, which means guns are not firing, boilers are unattended and so-on.

WG is actually providing you a service, allowing you to fire full gun strength while burning.

 

I have fought a fire, at sea, underway on a wooden boat, I cannot imagine being under fire while doing that but it must suck even more.

The current system may suck for a "captian", but it is just fine.

[Shadowrigger1]

Have you been on a ship at sea on fire?

perhaps under battle?

there is a random chance in battle that your damage control parties are incapacitated and therefore your crew are forced to deal with the damage and the fire, which means guns are not firing, boilers are unattended and so-on.

WG is actually providing you a service, allowing you to fire full gun strength while burning.

 

 

Hate to break it to you, but you are pretty much wrong on everything.   Crew members that aren't assigned to the guns, or critical command sections do not stop what they are doing in the event of a fire, unless it's right there in that actual section they are occupying.  all non combat required positions are then assigned as fire control teams in certain sections of the ship.

[cometguy]

How about this: each section of the ship has a fire fighting module that allows for the fires to be put out and contained in the manner they are now. But if that module gets taken out, then a fire in a neighboring section of the ship will also spread to that section of the ship.

 

You have damage control systems modifications, damage control party, November foxtrot, India Yankee, high alert, basics of survivability, and fire prevention all to deal with fires. Buff fires.