Do you miss the old Tier 1 ships?

[Ace_04]

Hi everyone,

 

So I was recently reading Lert's recent ALDA on the Dutch sloop van Kinsbergen:

 

http://shipcomrade.com/news/312/a-detailed-look-at-van-kinsbergen-sloop.html

 

And it got me thinking.....I kinda miss the old tier one ships before their ammunition was nerfed into the ground.  I've never been much of a Co-Op player, so when I needed to relax and blow off steam, I always found it fun to zip around in those little T1 ships for a battle or two.  Frankly, they've been neutered so badly, I find them unplayable now.

 

Does anyone else actually miss when T1 ships were kinda fun?

 

 

[awiggin]

No? 

Never saw the point in going down an clubbing players simply because they didn't have any clue about shell mechanics...

[Doomlock]

I remember the days when Katori was the T1 IJN ship.

[crzyhawk]

I never played them much, but I dislike the changes to the ships because they required the MM changes which I hate.

[Admiral_Franz_von_Hipper]

I remember when you could run around with AP on the T1s.

 

Me new to the game: "How did I get a citadel ribbon?"

[SireneRacker]

I would like to see them getting their old AA back so that I can use them in a Training Room and have fun.

[Komrade_Rylo]

What was fun about eating 1 umikaze torp and dying?

[MeetTheBadger]

Isolating the tier 1s into their own little training MM was a mistake.  I understand WG not wanting a bunch of experienced players kitting out tier 1 boats with fifteen-point captains and all the goodies they can cram onto their boat of choice because they don't want really new players to get frustrated, but all they accomplished was starting the domino effect that is really screwing over mid-tier ships and ensuring that new players are just that much more ignorant when they get to higher tiers.  Removing AP from the tier 1s might make them a little easier to pick up and less attractive for seal-clubbing, but it also means that people are being forced to move up a tier (granted, it only takes a half-dozen co-op matches -- at most -- to do so at tier 1, but still) before they even start getting exposed to things like armor angling and AP penetration mechanics.  That doesn't help new players learn.

 

And think about some of the other effects:

• All those tier 2 premiums and reward ships?  Not exactly attractive now, since they're functionally the bottom of the food chain in perpetuity.  So they're basically relegated to co-op only.
• Fewer people stepping down to tier 2 to derp around in their Smiths and Tachibanas and Emdens means fewer tier 2s to be matched with tier 3s, which means tier 3s will get up-tiered more often.
• Because there are enough tier 3s to fill out tier 4 matches, tier 4s tend to see slightly fewer tier 5 matches, which has a knock-on effect forcing tier 5s to get up-tiered even more than they already are, and their MM is already awful.
• The MM domino effect keeps going up the tiers, multiplied by tiers 5 and 6 effectively getting +2/-1 MM.

 

WarGaming aren't doing anyone any favors by taking away game mechanics from low-tier ships to "help new players learn."  Witness removing alt-attacks from tier 4 and 5 aircraft carriers to make them more newbie-friendly and less attractive for seal-clubbing: I have already had new players who'd just ground up to their first shiny-new tier 6 carriers asking, in Random battles, "What's alt-attack?!  What's strafe?!"

 

This is not an improvement.

 

If WarGaming are serious about providing a learning environment for new players, providing something resembling a comprehensive tutorial system would be a good start, rather than forcing people to rely on third-party sites, YouTube videos and forum posts to provide needed information.  You could provide new players with training boats of some description (call them tier 0s, for lack of a better term -- Fairmile motor launches or something), and put them through training.  Then pop them into tier 1s -- restored to what they were -- and use them to teach about MM and divisioning and the like.

 

That still doesn't directly solve the problem of tier 5s and 6s getting +2/-1 MM, but it's a start.  I still think WG should just bite the bullet and go +1/-1 MM for everything, but that's me.

[goldeagle1123]

If I'm every really that bored I just club in the Konig Albert, Yubari, or Nikolai.

[Shadowrigger1]

Honestly,  Anything below T7 is pretty much crap to me these days.   1-4 are mostly boring,  5-6 are kinda garbage due to protected Tiers.

[goldeagle1123]

Honestly,  Anything below T7 is pretty much crap to me these days.   1-4 are mostly boring,  5-6 are kinda garbage due to protected Tiers.

 

This. Tier 6 used to be the gem of this game, and then the completely ruined it by absolutely screwing MM.

[RipNuN2]

I miss the old T1 MM so the Mikasa could actually have a T1-T2 match and do some good.

[vonKaiser]

Tier 1 not so much, but I do miss the days when I didn't feel like a glorified punching bag in the Emden. 

[theLaalaa]

Obligatory advertisement for Tier 1 play:

 

It's simple and fun. Sure, it would be fun to be back in regular matches against T2's and T3's, but I've learned to have fun in the mini-game that is T1 Random. A lot of other highly effective players enjoy the straight-forward, non-uptiered, non-nerfed warships experience. There are baby seals, to be sure, but there are also navy seals that will eat your high-tiered lunches. ;)

 

[Hunter_Steel]

I do and I don't at the same time. Hashidate was OP to those who knew how to abuse the game's mechanics and abuse new players. This is exactly what I did when I clubbed in her a few times. Wasn't as fun as I thought it would be.

 

(Since when is Imgur blocked from the forums? I can't post any imgur images -_-)

 

~Hunter

[LadyJess]

Yes, miss these tier 1 with their HE rounds.

[Lert]

While I didn't play T1 even when it still followed the normal game rules, I do disagree with the decision to cut the HPs in half and remove ammunition choice from them. Plus, removing T1 from the T2 MM pool screwed over T2, and I do have a few T2 ships I take out every now and then. Emden, Tachibana, Smith, Mikasa ...

[crzyhawk]

Isolating the tier 1s into their own little training MM was a mistake.  I understand WG not wanting a bunch of experienced players kitting out tier 1 boats with fifteen-point captains and all the goodies they can cram onto their boat of choice because they don't want really new players to get frustrated, but all they accomplished was starting the domino effect that is really screwing over mid-tier ships and ensuring that new players are just that much more ignorant when they get to higher tiers.  Removing AP from the tier 1s might make them a little easier to pick up and less attractive for seal-clubbing, but it also means that people are being forced to move up a tier (granted, it only takes a half-dozen co-op matches -- at most -- to do so at tier 1, but still) before they even start getting exposed to things like armor angling and AP penetration mechanics.  That doesn't help new players learn.

 

And think about some of the other effects:

• All those tier 2 premiums and reward ships?  Not exactly attractive now, since they're functionally the bottom of the food chain in perpetuity.  So they're basically relegated to co-op only.
• Fewer people stepping down to tier 2 to derp around in their Smiths and Tachibanas and Emdens means fewer tier 2s to be matched with tier 3s, which means tier 3s will get up-tiered more often.
• Because there are enough tier 3s to fill out tier 4 matches, tier 4s tend to see slightly fewer tier 5 matches, which has a knock-on effect forcing tier 5s to get up-tiered even more than they already are, and their MM is already awful.
• The MM domino effect keeps going up the tiers, multiplied by tiers 5 and 6 effectively getting +2/-1 MM.

 

WarGaming aren't doing anyone any favors by taking away game mechanics from low-tier ships to "help new players learn."  Witness removing alt-attacks from tier 4 and 5 aircraft carriers to make them more newbie-friendly and less attractive for seal-clubbing: I have already had new players who'd just ground up to their first shiny-new tier 6 carriers asking, in Random battles, "What's alt-attack?!  What's strafe?!"

 

This is not an improvement.

 

If WarGaming are serious about providing a learning environment for new players, providing something resembling a comprehensive tutorial system would be a good start, rather than forcing people to rely on third-party sites, YouTube videos and forum posts to provide needed information.  You could provide new players with training boats of some description (call them tier 0s, for lack of a better term -- Fairmile motor launches or something), and put them through training.  Then pop them into tier 1s -- restored to what they were -- and use them to teach about MM and divisioning and the like.

 

That still doesn't directly solve the problem of tier 5s and 6s getting +2/-1 MM, but it's a start.  I still think WG should just bite the bullet and go +1/-1 MM for everything, but that's me.

 

This is an excellent post.  Once upon a time, I really enjoyed taking out my Emden, Tachibana, and Albany.  I don't mind being bottom tier some of the time, but it sucks being bottom tier 100% of the time.

[HazardDrake]

Isolating the tier 1s into their own little training MM was a mistake.  I understand WG not wanting a bunch of experienced players kitting out tier 1 boats with fifteen-point captains and all the goodies they can cram onto their boat of choice because they don't want really new players to get frustrated, but all they accomplished was starting the domino effect that is really screwing over mid-tier ships and ensuring that new players are just that much more ignorant when they get to higher tiers.  Removing AP from the tier 1s might make them a little easier to pick up and less attractive for seal-clubbing, but it also means that people are being forced to move up a tier (granted, it only takes a half-dozen co-op matches -- at most -- to do so at tier 1, but still) before they even start getting exposed to things like armor angling and AP penetration mechanics.  That doesn't help new players learn.

 

And think about some of the other effects:

• All those tier 2 premiums and reward ships?  Not exactly attractive now, since they're functionally the bottom of the food chain in perpetuity.  So they're basically relegated to co-op only.
• Fewer people stepping down to tier 2 to derp around in their Smiths and Tachibanas and Emdens means fewer tier 2s to be matched with tier 3s, which means tier 3s will get up-tiered more often.
• Because there are enough tier 3s to fill out tier 4 matches, tier 4s tend to see slightly fewer tier 5 matches, which has a knock-on effect forcing tier 5s to get up-tiered even more than they already are, and their MM is already awful.
• The MM domino effect keeps going up the tiers, multiplied by tiers 5 and 6 effectively getting +2/-1 MM.

 

WarGaming aren't doing anyone any favors by taking away game mechanics from low-tier ships to "help new players learn."  Witness removing alt-attacks from tier 4 and 5 aircraft carriers to make them more newbie-friendly and less attractive for seal-clubbing: I have already had new players who'd just ground up to their first shiny-new tier 6 carriers asking, in Random battles, "What's alt-attack?!  What's strafe?!"

 

This is not an improvement.

 

If WarGaming are serious about providing a learning environment for new players, providing something resembling a comprehensive tutorial system would be a good start, rather than forcing people to rely on third-party sites, YouTube videos and forum posts to provide needed information.  You could provide new players with training boats of some description (call them tier 0s, for lack of a better term -- Fairmile motor launches or something), and put them through training.  Then pop them into tier 1s -- restored to what they were -- and use them to teach about MM and divisioning and the like.

 

Pretty much the correct answer.