jutland1916

Tier levels in battles

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I think it is ridiculous to put tier 8 ships against tier 10, especially tier 8 cruisers against tier 10 battleships.  They can't survive. WoW should revise the match criteria at high tiers, so matches are limited to tiers 9-10, 8-9, or 7-8.


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Actually, I do well enough in a Mogami against T10 BBs.  It is part of the game so might as well learn how to play it. 


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There are some ships at various tier levels that could use preferred match making but overall most ships do just fine with three tier matches.

 

 

 

 


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I guess becoming a better player is always a last resort for you Jutland


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There are some ships at various tier levels that could use preferred match making but overall most ships do just fine with three tier matches.

 

 

 

 

 

then please explain to me why the whole rework of tiers 3 and 4 had to happen?

and why, since then, it is so difficult to find a tier 5 or 6 match?


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While I don't enjoy see tier 10 matches in my tier 8 ships when using tier 8 BB I really don't care. Some of my cruisers and all my DDs I dislike it but a couple of my tier 8 cruisers I kind of enjoy it.


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Dealing damage to higher tier ships gives better XP and income...

The only time I agree with this is with CV's, being bottom tier in a CV sucks.


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Oh not another one of these threads  :facepalm:

 

​There is a reason for it though. +2 MM sucks and "most" people are sick of it. +1 MM with an option to go to +2 MM for the player is what should be standard. It isn't a case of getting better, or learning how to play your ship, either as so many say. It is simply a case of once you hit that T5/T6 level ships 2 tiers higher are just too OP. Doesn't mean you can't do well in +2 but for "most" it takes any enjoyment out of the game when you know you are the 1st ship to be targeted and you generally speaking don't have the HP, armor, and guns to be any kind of threat back.

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Posted (edited) · Report post

 

then please explain to me why the whole rework of tiers 3 and 4 had to happen?

and why, since then, it is so difficult to find a tier 5 or 6 match?

 

That was to protect the new players and I disagree with it. It was a lot easier to learn to be bottom tier in three tier matches in tier 3 than it is in tier 5. Edited by BrushWolf

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I enjoyed the old +/- 3 MM back in the day, I had no issue so all I can say is Get Gud. Really what's next after this, same tier games? crapwhy stop there let's make it so only BBs see BBs, cruiser see only cruisers, ect. Really just learn to play better instead of begging the devs to dumb down the game


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​There is a reason for it though. +2 MM sucks and "most" people are sick of it. +1 MM with an option to go to +2 MM for the player is what should be standard. It isn't a case of getting better, or learning how to play your ship, either as so many say. It is simply a case of once you hit that T5/T6 level ships 2 tiers higher are just too OP. Doesn't mean you can't do well in +2 but for "most" it takes any enjoyment out of the game when you know you are the 1st ship to be targeted and you generally speaking don't have the HP, armor, and guns to be any kind of threat back.

 

Yes you have to work harder the trick is to engage where you are not the focal point so you are not easily deleted. Is it much more work? Absolutely but the satisfaction is even greater when you are one of the top XP earners in those matches.


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That was to protect the new players and I disagree with it. It was a lot easier to learn to be bottom tier in three tier matches in tier 3 than it is in tier 5.

 

Yeah, so did (do) I, and I still hold the opinion that it is making the mid-tier play much worse than it could be.

(and by WoW's rapid response to my complaint, you can see exactly the weight my opinion carries, LOL!!)


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Yes you have to work harder the trick is to engage where you are not the focal point so you are not easily deleted. Is it much more work? Absolutely but the satisfaction is even greater when you are one of the top XP earners in those matches.

 

While there are some ships that probably need some MM protection with most if you play smart and patient you can do quite well.

 

shot-17.04.18_21.43.45-0785_zpszpiucfkj.

 

shot-17.04.18_21.43.51-0594_zpsyisnohx6.


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for queue time reasons and the fact that T8s can hold their own in T10 [just gotta adjust playstyle] it seems clear that the majority of the community does NOT want to see +1/-1 MM for anything except CV's. now that I have essex and hakuryu, its not a huge issue but grinding up low tier planes cant handle 2 tier above AA. protect MM for CV sure but nobody else. its been debated over and over.


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Posted (edited) · Report post

for queue time reasons and the fact that T8s can hold their own in T10 [just gotta adjust playstyle] it seems clear that the majority of the community does NOT want to see +1/-1 MM for anything except CV's. now that I have essex and hakuryu, its not a huge issue but grinding up low tier planes cant handle 2 tier above AA. protect MM for CV sure but nobody else. its been debated over and over.

 

I don't believe that one bit. Since the MM change there are hundreds of threads with thousands of posts that say people are not happy with current MM. When things were +1/-1 I don't remember any real outcry about it. You may think you speak for the majority of players, the forums (here an on Reddit) suggest you are clueless. Edited by Taylor3006

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Taylor, I can't speak for the majority of the community, but I will say this. Being 2 tiers down in wows is not nearly as difficult as the posters make it out to be. Certainly not as difficult as in world of tanks. Wows could use a I'm tweak similar to the recent wot tweak where battles that included tanks that were two tiers down would have those -2 tier tanks represent about half the team so that there are plenty of bottom tier tanks to shoot. It seems like a good idea that wows could use.

 


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Posted (edited) · Report post

Taylor, I can't speak for the majority of the community, but I will say this. Being 2 tiers down in wows is not nearly as difficult as the posters make it out to be. Certainly not as difficult as in world of tanks. Wows could use a I'm tweak similar to the recent wot tweak where battles that included tanks that were two tiers down would have those -2 tier tanks represent about half the team so that there are plenty of bottom tier tanks to shoot. It seems like a good idea that wows could use.

 

 

I appreciate your response but again, I point out the obvious. There are thousands of posts on the forum that disagree with this. It has been a miserable experience for me personally as well. I was bow first and in reverse at range trying to escape a Tirpitz today in my Murmansk (or Marblehead I forget) and was deleted by him. I am unfamiliar with WoT honestly, seems from your description that something similarly could be done here but really again, I am pretty ignorant of WoT gameplay. BTW it might have been the other German battleship like the Tirpitz, begins with an S. I get the two confused lots. Edited by Taylor3006

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I agree with you Taylor3006. It is more a ship class thing with the 'is the lower tier at too much a disadvantage' vs the ship +2 tiers above it. With DDs, I agree that +/- 2 tiers is only a detection advantage between the ships. However, with the BBs, my Tier 5 USN BB is out run by any one elses Tier 7 and many times outranged. therefore, I am in a disadvantage with those ships. As far as 'changing play style ' and attacking with ships where you are not the focus....Have you seen the "team" play lately in the Random matches?! Comes down to the fact that a Bayern (Jutland ship) vs a North Caralina (mid WW2 ship) CAN'T be considered a 'fair' match by anyone not high on drugs or their own opinions.


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Taylor, I can't speak for the majority of the community, but I will say this. Being 2 tiers down in wows is not nearly as difficult as the posters make it out to be. Certainly not as difficult as in world of tanks. Wows could use a I'm tweak similar to the recent wot tweak where battles that included tanks that were two tiers down would have those -2 tier tanks represent about half the team so that there are plenty of bottom tier tanks to shoot. It seems like a good idea that wows could use.

 

 

I appreciate your response but again, I point out the obvious. There are thousands of posts on the forum that disagree with this. It has been a miserable experience for me personally as well. I was bow first and in reverse at range trying to escape a Tirpitz today in my Murmansk (or Marblehead I forget) and was deleted by him. I am unfamiliar with WoT honestly, seems from your description that something similarly could be done here but really again, I am pretty ignorant of WoT gameplay. BTW it might have been the other German battleship like the Tirpitz, begins with an S. I get the two confused lots.

 

Taylor, either you were in a fail division or you're mistaken about being in a tier FIVE cruiser facing a tier EIGHT BB.  Tier 5's should never ever be facing tier 8 ships, unless they're in fail divisions. And yes, you might be thinking of the Scharnhorst, which is a tier 7 German premium BB.

 

That said, I generally think that one can be reasonably successful even when bottom tier and 2 tiers down, though there are some exceptions.  Certain ships are poorly suited to being 2 tiers down, such as the Marblehead (though not the Murmansk).  The Marblehead's problem is the short range of its guns.  OTOH, the Murmansk's guns have sufficient range that the ship can hang out near max range and get good hits while dodging incoming fire.  But also, it's best when you're bottom tier to try to avoid drawing attention to yourself.  Try to fight and support higher tier team mates, in the hope that they'll be seen as bigger threats than your little ole bottom tier ship.

 


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I agree with you Taylor3006. It is more a ship class thing with the 'is the lower tier at too much a disadvantage' vs the ship +2 tiers above it. With DDs, I agree that +/- 2 tiers is only a detection advantage between the ships. However, with the BBs, my Tier 5 USN BB is out run by any one elses Tier 7 and many times outranged. therefore, I am in a disadvantage with those ships. As far as 'changing play style ' and attacking with ships where you are not the focus....Have you seen the "team" play lately in the Random matches?! Comes down to the fact that a Bayern (Jutland ship) vs a North Caralina (mid WW2 ship) CAN'T be considered a 'fair' match by anyone not high on drugs or their own opinions.As for

 

Goomy, this point is one of the problems that tier 5 and 6 BBs have when bottom tier.  And it's worse for tier 6 BBs (except for the Dunkerque, I suppose) because all tier 8 BBs are fairly fast, while nearly all tier 6 BBs are fairly slow.  That said, if you can get your tier 5 or 6 BBs into engagement range of  those higher tier BB's, your guns can still be useful, if you know where to aim.  I've had 100+k damage games in tier 6 BB's in tier 8 battles before, so it's not like a tier 6 BB can't compete when bottom tier.  You just have to work around your weaknesses (speed in particular).

 

As for your Bayern vs NC comparison, it's not about it being a "fair match".  Of course, the NC is a better BB.  But that does NOT mean that the Bayern can't do some major damage to the NC and perhaps even sink it, if you know what you're doing.  You have to fight your fight, not his.  Don't get in a sniping duel at mid range.  Try to find a way to get to close range using terrain, and try to not let the NC fight you bow-on.  Try to get to its side.  Fight to your strengths, not his.

 

 


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Posted (edited) · Report post

for queue time reasons and the fact that T8s can hold their own in T10 [just gotta adjust playstyle] it seems clear that the majority of the community does NOT want to see +1/-1 MM for anything except CV's. now that I have essex and hakuryu, its not a huge issue but grinding up low tier planes cant handle 2 tier above AA. protect MM for CV sure but nobody else. its been debated over and over.

 

I disagree with this conclusion; I believe most of the WoW player population lives with and tolerates the current matchmaking setup while wishing WoW would implement something better. I'm pretty sure if you ask any tier 5 or 6 player what he or she thinks about the current setup they'll say tier +1 matchmaking would be much better. I understand you don't want your planes ground up by superior AA; do you think New York drivers want their BB's chewed up by Scharnhorsts? That Omaha drivers want to face Belfasts?

+2 matchmaking is broken and needs to be replaced by +1 across the boards.

Edited by Umikami

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Posted (edited) · Report post

Umikami, I disagree that +/-2 tiers mm is "broken". When you're two tiers down, of course it's going to be difficult.  But if you can learn to deal with the challenge, you can earn more xp being bottom tier than you would if you were top tier. So instead of looking as it as a reason to whine, look at it as a challenge to be faced.

 

Edited by Crucis

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Posted (edited) · Report post

Umikami, I disagree that +/-2 tiers mm is "broken". When you're two tiers down, of course it's going to be difficult.  But if you can learn to deal with the challenge, you can earn more xp being bottom tier than you would if you were top tier. So I stead of looking as it as a reason to whine, look at it as a challenge to be faced.

 

 

LOL in other words get good? That is a pitiful argument in favor of +2/-2. Of players of equal skill it puts the lower tiered player at a disadvantage from the start. For players of unequal skill, you know the ones in lower tiered ships, it puts the better player in a better ship at a huge advantage. Lets just remove all tier restrictions, am sure that someone out there can take their Kuma and whoop an Yamamoto. It is easily unfair, to argue otherwise is horse feces. IMHO people who are a bit better than average enjoy having lowered tiered ships captained by lessor captains to pad their stats. The playing field starts off unequal and that is not a good thing. BTW I am not whining alone, you only have to look at the freaking forums to see that there are THOUSANDS of posts on how repugnant the MM is. BTW thanks for pointing out the error I tried to correct without changing my previous post. I don't division anymore, haven't in a very long time. It was the Scharnhorst that smacked my Murmansk around, a Tirptiz bitchslapped me in my tier 6 French cruiser thru the bow as well. I suppose I need to adapt the play style that is so common in PvP, hide behind a rock somewhere and don't get detected. Unfortunately that makes the game boring IMHO, and the whole point of a game is to have fun.  Edited by Taylor3006

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