Jakajan

Premiums and power creep, thoughts on premiums done right and not.

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So, what makes a good premium ship? To me it's a ship that is sort of like the tech tree version but may have some ease of use features to make it slightly easier and funner to use without being over powered. Alabama to North Carolina for example is a good one. Pro's may like the fact that the NC has slightly more accurate guns and better AA. However scrubs like me appreciate the turret rotation and turning speed.

 

Hipper to Priz Eugen to me is a poor premium, it tries to be a trainer, but it is easier to use a Tirpitz or really anything other than a cruiser at this time to do the job. Maybe if the Prinz had better turret rotation or angles or maybe a 8km range torpedo for a surprise it would be easier to justify her, but as is she is a bit bleh and not interesting enough, on the other hand I do not like heavy cruisers much.

 

Lo Yang feels okay vs Benson. People still debate which one is better, but to be honest I feel like her torps are just slightly weaker than they ought to be, but then again the hydro on Lo Yang if used correctly will allow her to avoid torpedoes better than a Benson ever could. Overall she is a fair and interesting premium in her own right.

 

I'm a little concerned that the upcoming Hood and maybe to some extent Kaga will buck the trend of being interesting and instead just be more powerful. I understand the ships have some drawbacks though.

 

Hood is the largest ship of her tier and will suffer a massive turning penalty. Maybe she needs the kind of gun performance in rotation and penetration she has to make up for the fact that you can fire and hit her as easily as say a Yamato.

 

Kaga, Oh I want to get Kaga, but I'm not convinced that having a 1 tier penalty in fighter squadron level and only a single dive bomber group would make up for the fact that she has 12 torpedo bombers. She excites me yes, to be honest I don't think she will be as broken as people fear, but she will have the perception of being broken because she is sky cancer vs a lot of ships that are balanced by being strong surface ships by having weaker AA.. Dunkerque, Scharnhorst, Mutsu, just to name a few.

 

I could go on and on about this, but just wanted to start a discussion on the topic.

 

 


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Just please don't make more Kutusov and I'll be happy. 

Kaga? No need to fear just wip out a Saipan or an Atlanta and all your problems are solved. Plus Kaga will see Baltimore's so idt its over powered at all. 


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penetration she has

What penetration? Hood's main battery armament has less penetration than Warspite's 15" guns.

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What penetration? Hood's main battery armament has less penetration than Warspite's 15" guns.

...which makes no sense, since Hood was built after Warspite...


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I find the Eugen to be a successful ship, depending on what you are looking for. If you are looking for an overpowered Premium that is clearly superior, then you should forget her. But if you like the playstyle and like the history of the Prinz, then you have found the ideal ship for you. A Premium ship is not always a clear upgrade from the Tech Tree ship, but it shouldn't be a clone either. Eugen is neither of that, she has her differences and is not stronger than Hipper, but also not weaker.


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I like ships like the Molotov, Graff Spee, and Atlanta in the spirit of premiums. Ships that either don't fit in a practical way in the trees or are slightly buffed, but uptiered versions of a tree ship. NOT the Belfast which is a tree ship, 'nerfed' and dropped a tier, or a blatant better version of a tree ship like the Texas.


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Just please don't make more Kutusov and I'll be happy.

 

To be fair the Kutuzov is a rare bird. She came out as a T8 with 155mm guns when AFT was HUGE. Almost everyone, not a collector, that bought her was to exploit a good stock range (16.5km iirc) with AFT to make her a fire-breathing fiend. The problem was, AFT changed not long after. And by not long I am talking weeks to a month. For WG to stand by their "we don't nerf premium's" they altered her stock range to what it is today. They didn't do that for Murmansk and such because when it first sold it wasn't looked at as an AFT product as much as MK was.

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Posted (edited) · Report post

Warspite, in comparison to other tier 6 BBs (and there are many now) is a fine example of what I'd like in premiums. Something that is different, with a unique feel on its own, with clear strengths and clear weaknesses.

 

Tirpitz, is another kind of nice premium. It's very like its tech tree counterpart, but the difference of hydro vs torpedoes makes it a different kind of beast nonetheless, even if it's primary handling (hull agility, main gun characteristic) is the same.

Eugen is a decent ship, premium status aside, but as something to pay for, it lacks a unique play feature to differentiate it enough from tech tree. Better earning rewards only being the difference is a lazy a$$ job for making a premium. 

Blatant OP or clearly superior-than-tech-tree premium ships are just bad. I'll let people figure out which are those.

In the case of the Hood, I personally feel it can't go too wrong if they just based some stuff from Warspite (strong 15" guns, to me at least, with poor traverse) and giving it stuff that it was clearly superior; speed, HP etc) The on going list of gimmicks and stuff to make lazy players more comfy with the ship is something I am quite annoyed to see them (WG) going for.

Edited by cmdr_raccoon

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It's all marketing.

Some folks will start a WOWS account -- just to play the Hood in battle.

It's history, it's a thrill, and for some, it's an experience they've waited their whole life for.

..

Might I recommend Co-Op?   Naaaaaaaa....   Co-Op is for wimps, and do it on the weekends - please.


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OP ships sell. WG charges a lot of money for the ships they sell, so people want to maximize their value. Put the hood up for $10-$15, and everyone will be driving one. No one is going to spend $50 on a ship that is just mediocre. If they put the Eugen up for $10, they'd sell thousands.


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So, what makes a good premium ship? To me it's a ship that is sort of like the tech tree version but may have some ease of use features to make it slightly easier and funner to use without being over powered. Alabama to North Carolina for example is a good one. Pro's may like the fact that the NC has slightly more accurate guns and better AA. However scrubs like me appreciate the turret rotation and turning speed.

 

Hipper to Priz Eugen to me is a poor premium, it tries to be a trainer, but it is easier to use a Tirpitz or really anything other than a cruiser at this time to do the job. Maybe if the Prinz had better turret rotation or angles or maybe a 8km range torpedo for a surprise it would be easier to justify her, but as is she is a bit bleh and not interesting enough, on the other hand I do not like heavy cruisers much.

 

Lo Yang feels okay vs Benson. People still debate which one is better, but to be honest I feel like her torps are just slightly weaker than they ought to be, but then again the hydro on Lo Yang if used correctly will allow her to avoid torpedoes better than a Benson ever could. Overall she is a fair and interesting premium in her own right.

 

I'm a little concerned that the upcoming Hood and maybe to some extent Kaga will buck the trend of being interesting and instead just be more powerful. I understand the ships have some drawbacks though.

 

Hood is the largest ship of her tier and will suffer a massive turning penalty. Maybe she needs the kind of gun performance in rotation and penetration she has to make up for the fact that you can fire and hit her as easily as say a Yamato.

 

Kaga, Oh I want to get Kaga, but I'm not convinced that having a 1 tier penalty in fighter squadron level and only a single dive bomber group would make up for the fact that she has 12 torpedo bombers. She excites me yes, to be honest I don't think she will be as broken as people fear, but she will have the perception of being broken because she is sky cancer vs a lot of ships that are balanced by being strong surface ships by having weaker AA.. Dunkerque, Scharnhorst, Mutsu, just to name a few.

 

I could go on and on about this, but just wanted to start a discussion on the topic.

 

IMO, Prinz needs the Repair Party consumable. Her guns work well enough, but she can't stay active in a fight long enough to make them count.


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The Prinz Eugene is a candle that lights at the beginning of the match.  Eventually it just melts because it can't take fire.  The Kirk is something else, it occasionally bounces things and plays like a much better Atlanta.  I usually don't play it much because I forget I have it.  Sad, but true.  

 

But on topic, the only ships that stand out as OP are the Tirpitz and not so much the Shorn as most potatoes can do well in them.


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Posted (edited) · Report post

 

To be fair the Kutuzov is a rare bird. She came out as a T8 with 155mm guns when AFT was HUGE. Almost everyone, not a collector, that bought her was to exploit a good stock range (16.5km iirc) with AFT to make her a fire-breathing fiend. The problem was, AFT changed not long after. And by not long I am talking weeks to a month. For WG to stand by their "we don't nerf premium's" they altered her stock range to what it is today. They didn't do that for Murmansk and such because when it first sold it wasn't looked at as an AFT product as much as MK was.

 

IFHE

 

Kutuzov and the other Russian light cruisers were already pretty strong before this captain's skill was introduced. The ability to sit in smoke and rain down fire starting HE which also penetrates everything no matter the angle is a blast - as long as YOU are driving the Kutuzov/Belfast. 

 

P.S. Yes, Murmansk was an AFT cruiser. However, she was OP for Tier 5 even without it until the MatchMaking shift made T5 the worst spot in the game. 

Edited by Landing_Skipper

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facts of life for most people - If you're spending money on something, spend it on something BETTER.  I learned my lesson in WoT and I'll keep my wallet put away for premiums that aren't better than free boats.  If WG is smart, they'll keep making premium boats better and they'll keep making money.


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Just please don't make more Kutusov and I'll be happy. 

Kaga? No need to fear just wip out a Saipan or an Atlanta and all your problems are solved. Plus Kaga will see Baltimore's so idt its over powered at all. 

 

Good luck on that.

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Out of all the ships I own in game, this would be how I break it down:

 

OP Premiums:

Arkansas Beta (unless a CV is present)

Kamikaze R

Belfast

 

Good Premiums:
Atlanta

Alabama

Arizona

Saipan

Sims

Texas

Ishizuchi

Atago

Iwaki Alpha

Myoko Clones

Kongo Clones

Yubari

Tirpitz

Scharnhorst

Warspite

Kutuzov

Gremyashchy

Molotov

Blyskawica

Dunkerque

Perth

Duca d'Aosta

 

Power Creeped/Bad Premiums:

Indianapolis

Prinz Eugen

 

I have other lower level ships but I really don't play them so I didn't list them. 


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Well, you figure they all can't be OP. At some point they'll have no choice but to tone (no pun intended) it down.


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Posted (edited) · Report post

My two go to Premiums I have are Atago and Tirpitz.   Both for different reasons.    Atago where she is better than Mogami is the forward torp tubes having a forward facing arc, so you don't have to necessarily use them as you are escaping.  Is she a glass cannon, and that keeps me on my toes.  Tirpitz with the upgraded secondaries is there when I want to just tank out like in Bismarck,  I am more comfortable being up tiered in the Tirpitz and Atago than just about any other ship.  Atago can be a Pyromaniacs dream against T9-T10 BBs.

Edited by gcangel82

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Actually, I'm always surprised that people are willing to shell out the kind of money WG wants for premium ships.  Some are a fairly easy decision, Belfast for example, and some ships fit perfectly with your particular play style.  Still so many premium ships are mediocre and people still buy them.  If you collect premium ships, WoWs is a really expensive game.    


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Posted (edited) · Report post

I think a good premium plays nothing like its tech tree counterpart, assuming it has one. For me, that means Lo Yang and Perth. Since the Minekaze nerf made the Kamikaze a unique ship, the only clone premium I own is the Missouri, which is self explanatory.


One of the many reasons I don't buy nearly as many premiums in WoT is that most premium tanks are not radically different from the tech trees.

Edited by awildseaking

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Actually, I'm always surprised that people are willing to shell out the kind of money WG wants for premium ships.  Some are a fairly easy decision, Belfast for example, and some ships fit perfectly with your particular play style.  Still so many premium ships are mediocre and people still buy them.  If you collect premium ships, WoWs is a really expensive game.    

 

You pay, in case of the Prinz Eugen, 50$ for a detailed model of the ship. It can't get broken by your cat, you can sail it out, watch it fire, watch it burn, watch it sink. The only downside is that you don't hold it in your hands, other than that it is far better than any ship model I have ever seen.

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Premiums should be tech tree ships with a unique appearance, and premium bonuses. Period.

 

WG advertises as a F2P game, all gameplay should be F2P. Russian cruiser with smoke? USN DD with sonar? Should be available for free in a reasonable manner, even if it doesn't have the premium bonuses.

 

WG should make ALL existing premiums available for FXP (at a price where paying real money would be significantly easier than converting/grinding), albeit without the permanent camo, and charge extra for that camo.

 

They would still be difficult to get for free most people would still pay real money to acquire them, but they'd be there.

 

A free to play game should never sell power, only cosmetics and convenience.

 

Several premiums violate that principle.


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You pay, in case of the Prinz Eugen, 50$ for a detailed model of the ship. It can't get broken by your cat, you can sail it out, watch it fire, watch it burn, watch it sink. The only downside is that you don't hold it in your hands, other than that it is far better than any ship model I have ever seen.

 

Look at your internet model without a internet connection some day and tell me how nice it is.

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Posted (edited) · Report post

Premiums should be tech tree ships with a unique appearance, and premium bonuses. Period.

 

WG advertises as a F2P game, all gameplay should be F2P. Russian cruiser with smoke? USN DD with sonar? Should be available for free in a reasonable manner, even if it doesn't have the premium bonuses.

 

WG should make ALL existing premiums available for FXP (at a price where paying real money would be significantly easier than converting/grinding), albeit without the permanent camo, and charge extra for that camo.

 

They would still be difficult to get for free most people would still pay real money to acquire them, but they'd be there.

 

A free to play game should never sell power, only cosmetics and convenience.

 

Several premiums violate that principle.

 

Pfft. Your problem my man is that you believe your definition of F2p is the gold standard law. It isn't and your principles are yours. Having spent quite a bit of money with WG I can assure that nothing behind a grind wall would have me part with my cash instead. I parted with cash because it was the only option. I'm 250k in on Mo and I won't have it until I hit 750k. Though i'm currently on hiatus from supporting WG financially and have not purchased Alabama or Duca in response to their removal of Blyskawica's stealth firing. When I say this keep in mind I have the disposable income to buy every premium ship as I have if I so wish. I'm one of the people that can afford to pass the grind if I desired. But the people you assume are most, are not. The only ones in my opinion who would are potentially streamers because they make money playing the game. It's not a matter of can but would. Given the option, people would keep their cash and play the game for ships because they are playing anyway. Edited by _Caliph_

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Pfft. Your problem my man is that you believe your definition of F2p is the gold standard law. It isn't and your principles are yours. Having spent quite a bit of money with WG I can assure that nothing behind a grind wall would have me part with my cash instead. I parted with cash because it was the only option. I'm 250k in on Mo and I won't have it until I hit 750k. Though i'm currently on hiatus from supporting WG financially and have not purchased Alabama or Duca in response to their removal of Blyskawica's stealth firing. When I say this keep in mind I have the disposable income to buy every premium ship as I have if I so wish. I'm one of the people that can afford to pass the grind if I desired. But the people you assume are most, are not. The only ones in my opinion who would are potentially streamers because they make money playing the game. It's not a matter of can but would. Given the option, people would keep their cash and play the game for ships because they are playing anyway.

 

And you - and for that matter, I, are tiny minorities in the player base in the "will surpass any grind wall" thing.

 

Think back to the Christmas special achievements marathon.

 

Of the people who won a battle, something like half weren't able to get the 1 container per day required for one of the other medals.

 

The vast majority of players are some form of casual who can't spend the time grinding the content, and are willing to pay to get past a grind wall.

 

~~~~~~

 

While my principles are mine, they have at least some basis in reality.

 

> If free players weren't needed for the success of the game, they wouldn't be allowed

> Given the number of games that either feature, or are transitioning to a F2P/F2Demo model of monetisation, having non-paying players around must be doing some form of good to the game.

> Selling power attracts P2W accusations, which hurts your marketability - especially to free to play players.

> Several games have collapsed with P2W as a central problem (among general mismanagement). I used to play Archeage, and the entire in game economy - and even crafting and earning gold - was based on certain cash shop items. Partly thanks to that, the game's entire economy crashed, and people left in droves.

 

Therefore:

 

> Since F2P players are necessary for the game, Selling power hurts the game as a whole

 

This is why you do not sell power. Furthermore, selling unique gameplay will inevitably lead to selling power at some point, unless you make a point of making premium ships objectively inferior - which is also a bad idea.. So how do you monetise the game?

 

> There are several wildly successful games that only monetise on cosmetics and convenience

 

Well, there's your answer.

 

~~~~~~

 

Your opinion is based on.... what?

 

"Well, I wouldn't spend money if the game was monetised that way, so your ideas are wrong".


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