800300

HE vs AP

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Posted (edited) · Report post

Do you switch back and forth that much, if so when, or just leave it on one type? Mainly referring battles where i am in a Battleship

Thank you

Edited by 800300

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On Battleships, ammo swapping isn't very important in my opinion. You can actually get away with using only AP by aiming at the superstructure or softer armored parts when your target tries to angle and still do more damage with AP than swapping to HE. I'll only use HE on a BB if I'm 100% sure a heavily angled enemy battleship has used their damage control party and said fire will stick for a full duration, and then will still swap right back to AP because it is the main source of damage for BBs.

 

On Cruisers and Destroyers, swapping back and forth between AP and HE and knowing what and where you can pen to make said decision is extremely important though, those two classes require more thought to maximize gun damage than BBs do.


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Battleships should use HE against ships that are heavily angled and/or at a distance  (12+km away).

 

Otherwise, you should use AP.

 

I often find myself just using AP and aiming for their superstructure (and getting decent damage... say 4K) but there are times I switch to HE because I'm not doing enough damage. Mainly you're looking for fires with long-range HE.

 

Contrast that with BBs I see just using HE on everything and they're missing out on a lot of pen/citadel damage on cruisers.


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I use HE in BB's at max range to get some fires going, then switch to AP when the range closes to up the damage.:look:

 


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I can't remember the last time I used HE in a battleship, I think it was that tier 4 premium IJN BB because it's AP is sooooo bad. Most people will tell u they use it at long range and in a bow on fight which I think is wrong, at long/max range you can get plunging fire and are more likely to do damage with AP. In a bow on fight u just need to know the capabilities of your ship and the weak spots of the enemy, it's more advantageous to being fireing AP in both situations. As to DDs I still stick with AP because if you hit a meaty part or they are bow on you have a chance to delete them


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I can't remember the last time I used HE in a battleship, I think it was that tier 4 premium IJN BB because it's AP is sooooo bad. Most people will tell u they use it at long range and in a bow on fight which I think is wrong, at long/max range you can get plunging fire and are more likely to do damage with AP. In a bow on fight u just need to know the capabilities of your ship and the weak spots of the enemy, it's more advantageous to being fireing AP in both situations. As to DDs I still stick with AP because if you hit a meaty part or they are bow on you have a chance to delete them

 

Where are these bow on citadels of which you speak? I aim high, I aim lower; I get jack squat.

 

Missing out on citadels? You mean the RNG blessed 1 out of 10, or 20, or 30, or however many other cruddy hits? I say instead you're missing out on DoT fires.

 

Maybe if stupid overpens didn't happen so often, people would use AP more. So much fun to watch a raft of shells scatter themselves between the main guns on a broadside target and get peanuts for damage.


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Posted (edited) · Report post

BB-wise, I've always stuck with AP. Citadel hits with those are unforgiving to the enemy when it comes to damage. I think the only time I've ever used HE for them is against DDs, just to set them on fire in case they survive the initial barrage with a silver of health.

 

As for Cruisers I go mainly HE (especially against BBs, as lighting them ablaze is necessary to make them waste repairs quickly) but will go AP against other Cruisers.

Edited by Squidward_Tentpoles

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Coming from a BB main, AP is going to be your primary tool for dealing the most damage.  The best times when you should swap to HE rounds depends heavily on the current Battleship your running. 

 

For example:

 

You have two Battleships firing at a heavily angled Warspite about 12 km away. 

One is a Fuso, the other is a Nagato.


The Nagato has massive guns for her tier, meaning it should still punch through Warspite's armor and do a large amount of damage with AP.

 

Fuso on the other hand has smaller guns and may not be able to fully penetrate the Warspite when heavily angled.  HE rounds have one advantage in this situation, they don't care about angling.  The Fuso should switch to HE when confronting the angled Warspite to avoid bounces.

 

 

 

 


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The school I went to taught the BB's basically use AP on everything....all the time.

I have since found out:

AP - CA/CL's at mid to close range. Works well on CV's

HE - DD's always. BB's IF you're trying to OP their bow or heavily angled. Great for CV's, light them up to deny air ops and then go for AP.

 

 


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I'm thinking along the same lines as Fog_Heavy_Cruiser_Takao.  I used to play an old board game called Battlewagon.  Below is an excerpt from the gun tables, showing BB main gun calibers.  Under "Gun type" the numbers are inches.  The AA, BB, CC are different calibers within that inch.  Range is in hexes, which I believe each represented 2,000 yards each.  I'd have to dig up the rule book to be sure.  Anyway, the Penetration line shows how many inches of armor that gun type can penetrate at point blank, close, medium, long, and max ranges.  The number to the left of the slash is used if the shell hits a part of the ship representing a flat trajectory (like the belt armor or turret side).  The number to the right represents the number of inches of armor it can penetrate with a plunging trajectory (if you hit the deck or a turret top).  The latter areas are typically much more lightly armored.  And, as you can see, the penetration from plunging shells increases with range, since the shells will be hitting at closer to a perpendicular angle, dropping like a bomb from a plane.

 

Gun type point close medium long maximum
20AA 0-1 2-8 9-15 16-23 24
Penetration 36/0 31/1+ 26/7 23/13 18/21
           
18AA 0-1 2-8 9-15 16-22 23
16AA 0-1 2-7 8-14 15-20 21
16BB 0-1 2-6 7-12 13-17 18
16CC 0-1 2-5 6-11 12-15 16
Penetration 31+/0 26/1 19/4 13+/8+ 11/14+
           
15AA 0-1 2-8 9-15 16-22 23
15BB 0-1 2-7 8-14 15-20 21
15CC 0-1 2-5 6-10 11-14 15
14AA 0-1 2-6 7-12 13-17 18
Penetration 29/0 22+/1+ 15/3+ 7/4+ 6+/8+
           
13AA 0-1 2-7 8-13 14-19 20
12AA 0-1 2-5 6-10 11-14 15
Penetration 26+/0 22/0 15+/2 10+/3+ 9/4
           
11AA 0-1 2-7 8-14 15-20 21
Penetration 23/0 18/+ 11+/2+ 7+/5 6/8

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If I'm in a BB and equal tier, I always go AP, but if I'm lower tier, especially if I'm like 2 tiers lower I use HE, it seems to work for me. In a DD or Cruiser, I switch back and forth.


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In general, if you have good aim and know where to aim,In BBs you should almost always have AP loaded.  There are circumstances where HE is the better option (bow in BB, or a DD) But it is usually better to fire what you have loaded than to waste 30 seconds switching to HE (if you have seagall with expert loader you could probably get away with it).  One instance I don't see talked about all that often as a good chance to use HE is if you're dived up with a CV or just want to be a pal to a Cv on your team.  BB HE will absolutely wreck AA modules opening high AA ships up for air attack.  Good targets for this are the Des Moines, any t8+ American BB, and the Minotaur.  Other than that, with CAs and DDS, knowing when to use which ammo type is part of learning the game, though HE tends to be the default for those classes.


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Posted (edited) · Report post

Hi, all.  I'm going to move up from the Maass to the Z2-3 some time in the next week or two.  It has the option to upgrade to 150mm guns.  I'm wondering if I use AP instead of HE against other DDs, will I have to worry about over-penetration?  Or is that only 8 inch or higher calibers?  Does anyone know?

 

Thanks,

Vince (zubalkabir)

Edited by zubalkabir

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Hello, respond to Vince (zubalkabir), in my opinion low caliber  HE (150 or below) is highly effective against DD. Over-penetration is the  major phenomenon i faced when using ap (128mm or above). Even my light cruisers(armed with 152mm or higher) options are always HE shells , in engaging ultra fast-going DD as it is quite difficult to predict the hit point on the dd(aim at torpedo tubes, shells hit on the bridge.....)


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Hi, Truman_Wu.  So, stick with HE pretty much all the time?  Except *maybe* against a cruiser's broadside at short range, when you're likely to hit the belt armor at a perpendicular angle?  I'll try that, and see how it works.  Thanks.


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