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EasternSun

Battleships need support Cruisers Do Not

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So after a short amount of Battles I've found that cruisers are much easier than battleships. In a cruiser you can Kill every class and still survive unless you play dumb and get caught.

 

In a battleship every move is dictated by your team. With how bad most teams are you basically gambling every time you press the battle button. Supporting a Flank? Good luck,you team will usually run away or continue to snipe leaving you dead. In a Cruiser you can turn and angle, get your guns around and the reload is fast enough your not punished for RNG every shot.

I also been testing tier 10's on the test server and their even worse there. So much Torp spam that you basically free XP for every destroyer. When a gearing can get 4km into your hull and your secondaries all dance around while you mains are loaded for AP because you trying to sink the other battleship what is the point? So you shoot the DD with a full Broadside and only do 4000k damage because "Reasons". 

 

In a cruiser I can kite the DD and Torp the Battleship, go dark and attack again.

Good luck with doing that in a Battleship.

 

So next time you complain about Battleship players "sniping" think,"Am I supporting the Battleship and given them incentive to advance?". Most of you fail at this simple task so they all condition themselves to stay safe.

 

I don't want to be in the back in a Battleship, the meta decided this for me. When a BB request support go with them, let them use their massive HP pool, be willing to get shot yourself to cover them and you might see battleship players get closer. As it is now there's no reason for a BB to even leave Spawn as most team go to One side exposing the flank. Sooner or later the red team will all come to you for their free meal. At least you can last stand for some damage before then or stop the inevitable cap that happens with everyone chasing the CV to A1.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited by EasternSun
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i agree with you but you're probably going to be insulted or told you're wrong by people who don't know how to play the game or think bbs are overpowered.

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Except this isn't most cases when I play in any ship. When I play, absolutely no one supports me, no matter what ship I'm in.

In rare cases, this leads to people wondering why I didn't cover the flank.

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So after a short amount of Battles I've found that cruisers are much easier than battleships. In a cruiser you can Kill every class and still survive unless you play dumb and get caught.

 

In a battleship every move is dictated by your team. With how bad most teams are you basically gambling every time you press the battle button. Supporting a Flank? Good luck,you team will usually run away or continue to snipe leaving you dead. In a Cruiser you can turn and angle, get your guns around and the reload is fast enough your not punished for RNG every shot.

I also been testing tier 10's on the test server and their even worse there. So much Torp spam that you basically free XP for every destroyer. When a gearing can get 4km into your hull and your secondaries all dance around while you mains are loaded for AP because you trying to sink the other battleship what is the point? So you shoot the DD with a full Broadside and only do 4000k damage because "Reasons". 

 

In a cruiser I can kite the DD and Torp the Battleship, go dark and attack again.

Good luck with doing that in a Battleship.

 

So next time you complain about Battleship players "sniping" think,"Am I supporting the Battleship and given them incentive to advance?". Most of you fail at this simple task so they all condition themselves to stay safe.

 

I don't want to be in the back in a Battleship, the meta decided this for me. When a BB request support go with them, let them use their massive HP pool, be willing to get shot yourself to cover them and you might see battleship players get closer. As it is now there's no reason for a BB to even leave Spawn as most team go to One side exposing the flank. Sooner or later the red team will all come to you for their free meal. At least you can last stand for some damage before then or stop the inevitable cap that happens with everyone chasing the CV to A1.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Good insight.

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Except this isn't most cases when I play in any ship. When I play, absolutely no one supports me, no matter what ship I'm in.

In rare cases, this leads to people wondering why I didn't cover the flank.

 

you don't play much, do you?

 

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you don't play much, do you?

 

Ever since release, no.

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I agree to an extent... but I also disagree on some points as well.  And this is someone playing primarily as BB main with CL/CA as a secondary.

 

Yes... BBs need support.  However, support is a two way street.  Ideally, as a BB you want to push.  In order to do that though, you need the support of an entire team, or at least a few key ships.  You need your DD to smoke, and you need your CLs to be by your side firing as you soak up damage for them.  This is why playing in a division is much more appealing, as you can control some of these aspects instead of playing a random match where you charge in only to find your team has left you, tucked tail and turned back only to leave you to get roasted.

 

Now... the counter argument.  You mention stealth.  USN BBs have better stealth than a fair amount of high tier CL/CAs/  12.2-13.4km for T8-T10 USN BBs.  I can stay hidden if I want.  And I can launch a full volley at an unsuspecting CL and utterly delete them if I want, and then I can vanish again.  Being within 15km of the enemy isn't sniping in my opinion.  And I think base camping is a better term for what people call "sniping"

 

Now the big disagreement.  You state that people whine about BBs sniping.  However, if you are kiting in a CL, you are basically doing the same thing.  While you are doing that, (and I don;t mean YOU in particular), you could be next to that BB pushing with him, or urging him to push.  You could be pushing through DD smoke.

 

I get frustrated when I play every ship class, but I do not find CLs much easier than BBs.  BBs biggest weapon aside from their guns is there surviveability.   No one ever says "Ooooh, a Des Moines is on cap.  I'm going to think twice about attacking."  Throw a GK on cap though and it'll make an enemy think twice, unless they have superior odds.  

 

And to be fair, a lot of the BBs sniping are doing it out of habit.  They have no intention of pushing until they know they won't take damage.  This is regardless of support.  I've seen this happen too much to know otherwise.

 

So yeah.  I agree on some points, but disagree on others.  I think most will.  Still, thought provoking post.  I think all players of all classes need to sail a mile in other people's hulls.

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  Look, any ship that goes alone and is not supported has a low survival chance.   Even if they are aggressive or passive.

  I play all classes of ships.   I push with BBs, I support DDs with Cruisers, I scout/spot/cap in a DD and I clear skies/spot with CVs.  Of course with all classes I try to sink opponents but that is not my main objective.  My main objective is to contribute to the team so we can Win.

 

 

 

  But your view that CL/CAs are easy...well I don't think so.  Also, don't use the public test server as your gage for how the live server plays. 


 

  Bottom line...play your ships role/strength and just maybe you'll be on a team that understands how use a good teammate.


 

With respect.

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   Some parts of your point I'll agree with, others I will not.... As a BB / Cruiser player I'll make this point. In a BB, with torps and DD's as they are, I keep myself AT LEAST 10 km from any DD when possible . That being said, when my team leaves the spawn and that single DD and a cruiser go to the opposite flank alone. I will not let them go without support, either me reversing course and following them to help out or with gunfire from a distance even if it means going in close. I may die in the process. but I refuse to leave teammates unsupported when they really need it. Recently I have noticed a few trends that show many understand the support role. During a game, I'm watching the minimap and I keep having to look around to keep from colliding with a DD or CA that seem to be way too close. When I take a closer look, I realize they are trying to support me in close quarters. I've had the enemy team bearing down on me and I'm bow on to the enemy teams BB's and suddenly, there goes a DD right across my bow with a smoke screen! I know there have been a lot of "Potato" complaints lately. But since there are, it becomes so much more obvious when those few stellar players who do understand help out. So I believe cruisers need just as much support as BB's....

Edited by Sampsonite
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In a battleship every move is dictated by your team.

 

 so they all condition themselves to stay safe.

 

I don't want to be in the back in a Battleship, the meta decided this for me. 

 

Yeah OP, you probably should just stick to CAs.  A BATTLESHIP driver doesnt let his team dictate his moves, HE dictates the moves of his team.  And even as a CA Capt you will do well to remember that.  Now I am not talking about those BaBBies camping ing the back but a REAL BB captains.  They will act decisevly and a smart team will play accordingly.  Remember, they do not have the speed to make huge changes to whims of there teamates or the enemy team.  Time and time again most battles are decided by the team whos BBs inflicted there will on the other team, not sailed around trying to out manuver the enemy, play DDs and CAs for that.  BATTLESHIP captains are bold, brash and will punch the biggest guy in the bar right in the mouth just to make a point.  As a Battleship driver, I do not allow the 'meta' to decide crapfor me.  I pick a strategic course of action inform my team where I am going and of my aggresive playstyle, and its up to them to man up and come along or cower in my wake.  Someone has to stop this "Im going to camp because the team wont push" Lemming pile.  And its up the BATTLESHIP captns, to lead, do our job, and smash the enemy, cowards be dammned!

Edited by Ujenele
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I don't think BBs need support so much as they need to provide the support!

 

If they provide support then they should, in turn, get support via the ships they are helping.*

 

*This counts on 3 things:

 

1. The ability for the BB to read the mini map and be able to react quickly (being the one taking most time to react once committed).

2. Those ships that the BB is supporting need to support the BB in return (otherwise he/she can't do their job).

3. Communication! Know the plan; stick to it! If you intend to bug out let your group know etc.

 

Well, my thoughts anyway. :honoring:

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i love to push in BBs sadly for my Missouri its terrible at it.

so i play mostly german BBs as they are more fun being in the action i try to always be in secondary range 10km.

 

 i have also had decent success with the dunke pushing vs weaker BBs and cruisers. (play like a large cruiser )

 

seeing a  BB move in close to caps is key to area control and keeping the enemy fleet in their spawn while you rack up easy pts.

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I am with NoZoup on this.  While I think you have some very valid points, the idea that Cruisers do NOT need support is basically flawed.  Cruisers and BB's work best together, as you suggested that cruisers support the BB's when needed, the same goes the other way.  Realistically, no one ship in this game can operate independently.  At least, that is the way the game is designed.  If you are playing to an objective and not just damage farming, you will need ship support with you in 99/100 cases.

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I don't think BBs need support so much as they need to provide the support!

 

If they provide support then they should, in turn, get support via the ships they are helping.*

 

*This counts on 3 things:

 

1. The ability for the BB to read the mini map and be able to react quickly (being the one taking most time to react once committed).

2. Those ships that the BB is supporting need to support the BB in return (otherwise he/she can't do their job).

3. Communication! Know the plan; stick to it! If you intend to bug out let your group know etc.

 

Well, my thoughts anyway. :honoring:

 

Yes and No.  I agree that BB's should provide support, but conversely by providing that support they are also receiving support from the ships they escort.  Ideally it is a symbiotic relationship between the supporter and the supportee.   Example.  I sail with a CA and I am gunning the enemy CA's and BB's to keep them off my CA buddy.  In return I need that CA to watch for, and kill, enemy DD's and help knock out the close cruisers while in certain cases provide close in AA support in those games that require it.   So #2 on your list is paramount to the entire idea of "support".

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I agree to an extent... but I also disagree on some points as well.  And this is someone playing primarily as BB main with CL/CA as a secondary.

 

Yes... BBs need support.  However, support is a two way street.  Ideally, as a BB you want to push.  In order to do that though, you need the support of an entire team, or at least a few key ships.  You need your DD to smoke, and you need your CLs to be by your side firing as you soak up damage for them.  This is why playing in a division is much more appealing, as you can control some of these aspects instead of playing a random match where you charge in only to find your team has left you, tucked tail and turned back only to leave you to get roasted.

 

Now... the counter argument.  You mention stealth.  USN BBs have better stealth than a fair amount of high tier CL/CAs/  12.2-13.4km for T8-T10 USN BBs.  I can stay hidden if I want.  And I can launch a full volley at an unsuspecting CL and utterly delete them if I want, and then I can vanish again.  Being within 15km of the enemy isn't sniping in my opinion.  And I think base camping is a better term for what people call "sniping"

 

Now the big disagreement.  You state that people whine about BBs sniping.  However, if you are kiting in a CL, you are basically doing the same thing.  While you are doing that, (and I don;t mean YOU in particular), you could be next to that BB pushing with him, or urging him to push.  You could be pushing through DD smoke.

 

I get frustrated when I play every ship class, but I do not find CLs much easier than BBs.  BBs biggest weapon aside from their guns is there surviveability.   No one ever says "Ooooh, a Des Moines is on cap.  I'm going to think twice about attacking."  Throw a GK on cap though and it'll make an enemy think twice, unless they have superior odds.  

 

And to be fair, a lot of the BBs sniping are doing it out of habit.  They have no intention of pushing until they know they won't take damage.  This is regardless of support.  I've seen this happen too much to know otherwise.

 

So yeah.  I agree on some points, but disagree on others.  I think most will.  Still, thought provoking post.  I think all players of all classes need to sail a mile in other people's hulls.

 

​I will have to respectfully disagree with one point.  If the CA is near the BB for support the BB will not have to soak up damage as everyone will be shooting the nice squishy CA for the easy kill.   As a CA main I have enjoyed many battles where the enemy shoots right over or past the BB to sink my squishy butt.  Not the BB's fault just how the game is played.  So I hope (but don't really care anymore) that others will forgive me for staying behind those BB's and sniping so I can try to stay alive long enough to do some (any) damage.
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Yes and No.  I agree that BB's should provide support, but conversely by providing that support they are also receiving support from the ships they escort.  Ideally it is a symbiotic relationship between the supporter and the supportee.   Example.  I sail with a CA and I am gunning the enemy CA's and BB's to keep them off my CA buddy.  In return I need that CA to watch for, and kill, enemy DD's and help knock out the close cruisers while in certain cases provide close in AA support in those games that require it.   So #2 on your list is paramount to the entire idea of "support".

 

That's what I thought I said with my first 2 statements lol. Obviously what I was thinking didn't quite translate.

 

In agreement anyway! :honoring:

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I think one crucial difference that people often overlook, is that a cruiser sniping is a lot more effective than a BB sniping.  I personally think that when ever possible a cruiser should try and push forward and support their friendly DDs, but not all cruisers have great stealth or handling, and some are squishier than others, which can make pushing a huge risk.  But when a cruiser is actually forced to sit back and snipe, it can still be useful to the team.  

 

Cruisers are too squishy to lead a push or tank anyway, and often times they are very poorly equipped to deal with DDs.  So I often wonder what BBs actually expect the cruisers to do for then apart from providing AAA support.  With out a DD providing a screen, a cruiser is not going to be of any use against enemy DDs, a cruiser is not going to be useful tanking as its too squishy, and a cruiser does not really need to get close to provide effective supporting fire.

*I will always push forward and support my BBs if they make a push, but again, with out proper DD support there is not much more I can do up with the BBs that I can't do farther back.

**edit

I just wanted to reiterate the importance of team work.  If DDs don't push, there is no spotting and the cruisers are useless.  If the  cruisers don't push there is less high DPM to capitalize on the DD spotting, and if the BBs don't push there is no tank to take fire away from the cruisers.

 

Edited by yashma
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Nothing in this game is that cut and dry OP. What you're learning is that positioning is key to victory. Positioning in early tier BBs is hardest because they're so slow. It's not really a matter of support, it's a matter of being in the right place at the right time.

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I definitely wouldn't say that cruisers are easier than BBs... just different. You have to think differently and use different strategies.

 

Additionally, you really can't generalize. Different cruisers have much different roles. Atlanta just doesn't play the same as Shchors, and it plays much differently from CAs.

 

I find that some cruisers need support much more than others. Atago seems to need very little support while NO is best used as part of fleet actions for her own protection and the fleet's advantage.

 

 

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So after a short amount of Battles I've found that cruisers are much easier than battleships. In a cruiser you can Kill every class and still survive unless you play dumb and get caught.

 

In a battleship every move is dictated by your team. With how bad most teams are you basically gambling every time you press the battle button. Supporting a Flank? Good luck,you team will usually run away or continue to snipe leaving you dead. In a Cruiser you can turn and angle, get your guns around and the reload is fast enough your not punished for RNG every shot.

I also been testing tier 10's on the test server and their even worse there. So much Torp spam that you basically free XP for every destroyer. When a gearing can get 4km into your hull and your secondaries all dance around while you mains are loaded for AP because you trying to sink the other battleship what is the point? So you shoot the DD with a full Broadside and only do 4000k damage because "Reasons". 

 

In a cruiser I can kite the DD and Torp the Battleship, go dark and attack again.

Good luck with doing that in a Battleship.

 

So next time you complain about Battleship players "sniping" think,"Am I supporting the Battleship and given them incentive to advance?". Most of you fail at this simple task so they all condition themselves to stay safe.

 

I don't want to be in the back in a Battleship, the meta decided this for me. When a BB request support go with them, let them use their massive HP pool, be willing to get shot yourself to cover them and you might see battleship players get closer. As it is now there's no reason for a BB to even leave Spawn as most team go to One side exposing the flank. Sooner or later the red team will all come to you for their free meal. At least you can last stand for some damage before then or stop the inevitable cap that happens with everyone chasing the CV to A1.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

You are very correct, and this is well written................I also play all class's and find the same situations happening and have had it happen. 

 

 

Listen up players of Crusier's and DD's.

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​I will have to respectfully disagree with one point.  If the CA is near the BB for support the BB will not have to soak up damage as everyone will be shooting the nice squishy CA for the easy kill.   As a CA main I have enjoyed many battles where the enemy shoots right over or past the BB to sink my squishy butt.  Not the BB's fault just how the game is played.  So I hope (but don't really care anymore) that others will forgive me for staying behind those BB's and sniping so I can try to stay alive long enough to do some (any) damage.

 

Well... again, the team thing.  If you have a DD leading you with smoke then you are good.

 

Honestly, more times than not, players will target the BB over the CA.  Human nature is to target the biggest threat.  Players usually panic when they see a BB in CQ and ignore the DD and CA.  Just my experience.

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USN Cruiser main here, and I believe your observation is a little short sighted. You have experience at the lower levels of WoWs, and very little experience in the upper ones. The world of Cruisers does look incredibly rosy when you're sitting in the Atago, one of the best and dynamic cruisers in the entire game, but that experience isn't exactly shared by other Cruisers of the WoWs world.

 

As you get to Tier 6 and beyond the HP and accuracy of BBs increase exponentially while that of Cruisers mostly remains the same. You may get more armor and HP, but it really doesn't seem like a lot when you start facing BBs that can practically delete you at will if they know what they're doing, angled or not. Cruisers begin to take on more of a support role, as pushing up and being aggressive with them is of increasing risk to the health of your ship. To me, Cruisers are stuck in the middle of immense power gains by BBs and DDs at this level, where they go from simply good ships, to great ones across the board, and Cruisers are stuck in the middle.

 

At Tier 10 a Des Moines could easily lose to a Khab kiting her at range, or a Shimkaze sending waves of torpedoes at her from stealth beyond ranges where he radar will reach. She has very little chance against an experienced BB captain short of a surprise attack where the BB is facing the wrong way, and even then the BB still has a chance. Left alone, the Des Moines, like the Atlanta, can absolutely amplify the power of an attack against an enemy ship 10 fold, but if you're going to ask me what I would take between a Khab, Des Moines, and Yamato with the game on the line, the Des Moines is going to be last every time.

 

Yes, a BB is vulnerable to positioning by great deal, understand this completely, but as a USN Cruiser I don't have the tools to deal with enemy BBs like you do, and even enemy Cruisers at times. I cannot survive the damage onslaught without you. Far too often I find myself dead with 5-7 minutes left to go in the match with all of our BBs quietly sitting behind islands or far out of the battle with near full health, mostly 4-5 at a time. That is a sure sign that your friendly BB captains don't understand the balance between pushing too far forward and sitting too far back. I'd much rather see a BB die on our team in the last 5 minutes, than to see them barely scathed, or see them die in the 1st 5. 

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The "it's your fault I snipe in my bbs" meme has been done to death, and disproven every time. I award you no points.

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Well... again, the team thing.  If you have a DD leading you with smoke then you are good.

 

Honestly, more times than not, players will target the BB over the CA.  Human nature is to target the biggest threat.  Players usually panic when they see a BB in CQ and ignore the DD and CA.  Just my experience.

 

   Very good point! I use my ship on a regular basis to draw fire away from others in this fashion. Another way a BB can support others. It's the best way to help out someone who got spotted first and is trying to get away. I've had many a time that someone did this and my last few HP lasted a whole game! There are so many tools to show and teach you how to play any ship, but I don't think there are any that show you methods on how to support your team
Edited by Sampsonite

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Teamwork is the key, no matter if you play a DD or a BB, or something in between.   And that is the big problem when dropping into a match as a single player not in a division.  You need support, but real support takes good communication that can't be done effectively in the chat bar, and working with a known group of people over time so that you react instinctively to each others moves and needs at any given point.

 

Solo play in a BB is not easy, regardless of what many think, especially if you play the American standard types, or something like the Warspite that isn't fast at all.  Typical scenario:   I'm in Arizona, I see another friendly slow BB and two cruisers on the left being advanced on by two enemy faster BBs and a cruiser screen with a DD, so I plod up towards them to offer help.  I fire when in effective range, and keep advancing, but by that time the other US BB is on fire and is trying to retreat, and her two cruisers just run away at full speed.  The enemy BBs finish off the burning BB and there I am alone, with no support and one of the team way on the other side of the map gives me crap in chat for hiding and not helping them push.

 

This happens all the time, as other players just see a lone BB on the other side of an island and don't understand that a reposition at 21 knots isn't going to happen so they call you names in chat without any context of the engagement that just took place.

 

It's frustrating at best and infuriating most of the time, and one of the reasons my solo pick up game play is being cut back. If I don't have my friends on voice comms to division with, it's just not worth dealing with all the armchair 13 year old admirals out there.

Edited by ElAurens

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