An idea for the implementation of Pre-Dreadnoughts and Esorts/Frigates

[dseehafer]

Greetings all,

 

Warning!: I have had a couple drinks tonight, and while I'm not quite "plastered" I'm still "under the influence". So If this sounds completely batsh:t crazy... that's my excuse.

 

If you're like me then you're kind of bummed that there are ships that are not powerful enough to make it in-game as playable ships, like escorts, frigates, and pre-dreads (with the exception of Mikasa). I think I have an idea on how we can implement them.

 

Right then, I used to play a game called Star Trek Online, in this game there was a consumable that allowed you to call in a bot starship to help you that you could only activate once you got below a certain health. Usually, you'd get an escort, but there was a small chance that a star-cruiser would come instead. The bot would fight with you for a limited amount of time, or until you died, or until it died... whichever came first.

 

Now then, I'd suggest a similar consumable be made available to all ships from tier 5 and up. 

 

Why not below tier 4? Because, though not even as powerful as a tier 1, a frigate would probably be a bit "too much" help to be able to call in at the lower tiers.

 

At first I though we should copy the idea from STO that you are guaranteed a Frigate but that you have a small chance to have  pre-dread come instead... but I decide that, just as a frigate might be "too much" in the lower tiers, a frigate might be "too little" in the upper tiers. Therefore I suggest that tiers 5-7 get a frigate and tiers 8-10 get a pre-dred.

 

You can only call one in if you are under, say, 5k health (It has to be a set number, it can not be a percent of your hitpoints as that would favor battleships over cruisers, and cruisers over destroyers... which wouldn't be fair). Once called, the ship will appear next to you and fight with you for, say, 90sec, or until you die, or until it dies... whichever comes first. When the 90s is up, or you die, the bot detonates and sinks. Perhaps when you call it in it will come out of the water... like the Flying Dutchman...

 

 

 

Any damage the bot does, any hits it scores, any planes it shoots down, etc... will be accredited to you. In this way, you have a chance to get some extra damage/credits/XP before you die. The enemy also has a new target to shoot at and farm some extra damage of their own. All while not being a significant threat to the outcome of the game.

 

Here are some examples of a Frigate/Escort for each major nation in-game.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Here are some examples of a Pre-Dreadnought for each major nation in-game

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Japan: Mikasa (already in-game)

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[goldeagle1123]

I would kill for them to add Schleswig-Holstein. That would be a true collectors ship.

[Omega_Weapon]

I would kill for them add Schleswig-Holstein. That would be a true collectors ship.

 

​Yeah. Mikasa is great. Every nation should get the same treatment and have at least 1 pre-dreadnaught available. Schleswig-Holstein would be the obvious choice for Germany. As for summoning escort ships for help, I don't see it working. It would take too long for them to sail in from the map edge and having them just materialize beside you ruins the immersion.

[Doomlock]

Better idea for the USN frigate/DE, John C. Butler-class. (Because Samuel B. Roberts)

[Royeaux]

I think pre-dreadnought combat needs to be reworked.  Let the main guns fire automatically by the computer, and give the player secondary control.  Otherwise, giving the player 4 long reloading guns with mega dispersion means they aren't even interacting in the battle.

[dseehafer]

Better idea for the USN frigate/DE, John C. Butler-class. (Because Samuel B. Roberts)

 

I decide against John C Butler class on account that it has two guns (I was aiming for two main battery guns for each frigate if you couldn't tell) AND has a triple torpedo launcher.

 

Gabbiano gets 1 torpedo tube per side but she gets away with it because she only has 1 main battery gun.

 

#balance 

[Battlecruiser_Siegfried]

The only way I can see predreads making it into the game is in some kind of a "Tsushima mode," or "tier -1" that features armored cruisers, predreadnoughts and torpedo boats. 

[dseehafer]

The only way I can see predreads making it into the game is in some kind of a "Tsushima mode," or "tier -1" that features armored cruisers, predreadnoughts and torpedo boats. 

 

Ehem, making it back into the game. Predreds are already in-game via Mikasa, their sole representative.

 

 

There actually is already a torpedo boat in the game, I won't tell you which though. 

 

 Ok fine, it's the T-22. The Type 1939 class, of which T-22 is the lead ship of, was classified as "flottentorpedoboot" (fleet torpedo boat) which is why they had the "T-#" designation instead of the "Z-#" designation of Germany's other 'normal' destroyers. 

 

 

[goldeagle1123]

The only way I can see predreads making it into the game is in some kind of a "Tsushima mode," or "tier -1" that features armored cruisers, predreadnoughts and torpedo boats. 

 

1939 configuration Schleswig-Holstein actually has a chance of being a competitive tier 2 battleship, unlike Mikasa.

[Battlecruiser_Siegfried]

 

1939 configuration Schleswig-Holstein actually has a chance of being a competitive tier 2 battleship, unlike Mikasa.

 

Only if given decent dispersion. Mikasa's biggest problem is that her guns don't do what they're supposed to do - that's a product of game design, not a reflection of the actual ship's capability to hit something. If Mikasa were as derpy (relative to competing boats) as the ship we got in game, the Japanese would have lost the war.

[goldeagle1123]

 

Only if given decent dispersion. Mikasa's biggest problem is that her guns don't do what they're supposed to do - that's a product of game design, not a reflection of the actual ship's capability to hit something. If Mikasa were as derpy (relative to competing boats) as the ship we got in game, the Japanese would have lost the war.

 

Mikasa is bad because of how lacking she is in terms of number of guns. Her dispersion isn't that bad, it's just there's on 4 of them, I wouldn't be all that opposed to an accuracy tweak though, to make up for it.  and the angles on the turrets are atrocious, and the bread and butter of pre-dreadnoughts, their secondaries, only reach out with 3km of base range in wows, which is a cardinal sin if I've ever seen one. Buffing her secondary (and main battery for that matter) range would most likely make her perfectly competitive. But as she is in game right, undoubtedly the worst ship in the game. I'd take a tier 1 over her any day if we're talking performance.

[dseehafer]

If Mikasa were as derpy (relative to competing boats) as the ship we got in game, the Japanese would have lost the war.

 

Mikasa did not single-handily win the Battle of Tsushima. Therefore, if only Mikasa was the derpy one the Japanese would have almost certainly still won on account of all the other Japanese ships being... well.... not derpy.

[Battlecruiser_Siegfried]

 

Mikasa did not single-handily win the Battle of Tsushima. Therefore, if only Mikasa was the derpy one the Japanese would have almost certainly still won on account of all the other Japanese ships being... well.... not derpy.

 

You're taking my comment a bit too literally. What I mean is: predreadnoughts were not as incapable relative to their opponents as Mikasa is made to be in WoWs. Her guns perform... like they might have performed IRL - like 4% hit ratio, or something stupid like that. In WoWs, accuracy has been boosted substantial for heavy armaments... but not for poor Mikasa; and not, I assume, for any tier 2 battleship.

 

The only way to get a fair portrayal of these ships is to have them fight in an arena where WG isn't so terribly concerned that some green newbie is going to get one-shotted by 4 heavy shells at once and rage quit.

[dseehafer]

 

But as she is in game right, undoubtedly the worst ship in the game. I'd take a tier 1 over her any day if we're talking performance.

 

I'd argue that Bougainville is the worst ship in the game right now. Only 3 guns when everyone else has 4, terrible rof, only does as much damage per shot as Erie but has 1 less gun and much worse rof, slow, no armor, huge target (as far as tier 1 ships go, that is)... it's easily the worst of the tier 1s. Worse than Mikasa? I think so. Mikasa performs beautifully up-close and personal... Bougainville performs terribly at any range.

 

However!! I'm glad WG used Bougainville as the French tier 1 instead of a paper ship. A bad historical ship is better than a good paper ship in my book.

[BladedPheonix]

 

​Yeah. Mikasa is great. Every nation should get the same treatment and have at least 1 pre-dreadnaught available. Schleswig-Holstein would be the obvious choice for Germany. As for summoning escort ships for help, I don't see it working. It would take too long for them to sail in from the map edge and having them just materialize beside you ruins the immersion.

 

Agreed. WG could maybe even give them away for WG's Birthday or X-mas gifts.

[Kitsunelegend]

I'd much rather have all those sexy predreads as premium ships. o3o

 

Please WG? Pretty please?

[Ukrainian_Farmer]

It is bat[edited] crazy, and I don't see them actually being all that useful most of the time, but I like the fact that you're thinking. I especially like the fact that its not about submarines, pt boats, noncombatant auxilliaries, or playable airfields again.

 

 

(If nobody has ever posted about the auxilliaries before, don't worry about it. I contemplated repair vessels once, but realized that was an immensely stupid idea and never shared it. Still counting it as an example.)

[Shadow_1964]

It is bat[edited] crazy, and I don't see them actually being all that useful most of the time, but I like the fact that you're thinking. I especially like the fact that its not about submarines, pt boats, noncombatant auxilliaries, or playable airfields again.

 

 

(If nobody has ever posted about the auxilliaries before, don't worry about it. I contemplated repair vessels once, but realized that was an immensely stupid idea and never shared it. Still counting it as an example.)

 

VEHEMENTLY agree on all points.

[ryuukei8569]

Well It would be fun if T2 and T1 where reworked to include predreads and Armored cruisers. But since many predreads where very similar in therms of their weight class, most of them could be added to t2. It would make low tiers interesting, though they would need to do some work on gunnery mechanics for it to work well. What they could also do to minimize seal clubbing is simply add in protected matchmaking rules, where players with say more than a few hundred games when in a T2 are only matched against other players with more than a few hundred games.

[dseehafer]

It is bat[edited] crazy, and I don't see them actually being all that useful most of the time, but I like the fact that you're thinking. I especially like the fact that its not about submarines, pt boats, noncombatant auxilliaries, or playable airfields again.

 

 

(If nobody has ever posted about the auxilliaries before, don't worry about it. I contemplated repair vessels once, but realized that was an immensely stupid idea and never shared it. Still counting it as an example.)

 

Again, the point is not to change the tide of battle, just to get a few more hits/fires/XP/credits/ect... before you go down.

 

I once made a half-hearted argument for the Kaiser Wilhelm der Grosse to be added to the game and actually came out with a decent argument on how to balance other Auxilliary cruisers as well.

 

Kaiser Wilhelm Der Grosse - http://forum.worldof...er-grosse-1914/

Kormoran - http://forum.worldof...ok-at-kormoran/

[SinqueScheiDeMona]

And this is why you don't let your kids drink natty ice.