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The_Moe

Tier 10 German BB IFHE for Secondaries?

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I had a 17 point captain on my Tier 10 FDG BB, and I'd been quite happy with the secondary fire damage on my full secondary build with flag (10.6 km manual). Last week I reached 18 points and wanted to try IFHE secondaries. The problem is I don't play enough to really test this new build. I'm seeing about the same average damage, but more from direct HE shells and far fewer fires. My best guess is that my IFHE build will do more damage to destroyers and thin-skinned cruisers, likely taking them out sooner than without IFHE, but I might be losing damage to larger BB's, since fires are quite rare now. I do run 8 flags, but they are for more credits, lower repair costs, xp, free xp, captain xp, speed, and secondary range. I guess I could add one fire flag, but that's only increasing fire chance on some guns by 0.5%.

 

Is there anyone out there who has quite a few games with and without secondary IFHE on either the FDG or other German BB's with a secondary build? Would love to know what you've discovered. Thanks.

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Hi Moe, the test server is up, it's a good place to test anything.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited by yUPPatriots
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Hi Moe, the test server is up, it's a good place to test anything.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Hey yUPPatriots. I already have the build up. Just no time to play. ;) The test server is a lot of fun, though. I have to admit. :honoring:

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Have they fixed it to where IFHE affects secondaries now?

 

That was a very good question. I thought for sure I read a while back that WG had fixed that, but I wasn't sure. A little research lead me to Aeroon's video comparison between IFHE and non-enhanced secondaries. Wow, what a difference.  Here's the link. http://gamesvideoreview.net/watch/yaNS4YVGcyQ

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I just watched Aerroon's other video on the IFHE secondaries. I can see the value in IFHE, since it deals more damage consistently. Think I'll keep the skill right where it is. Here's the second video on his IFHE series, if you're interested.

 

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Well then,  If ze germans he is a 'special' case and they get divided by 4.. not 6. He's shooting yamy bow which has 32mm..  it takes twice as much to kill it w/o ifhe and that's cuz only the 150's are doing pen dam to the bow. With ifhe 128's get to join the fun.

 

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The FDG, which you said you are running, is a T9 BB.  I can tell you from extensive running back and forth with IFE and not that the extra damage you get on the FD with IFE is not worth it compared to the fire damage you get without it.   There have been some topics, one in a thread I started on this subject, regarding the effectiveness of IFE on the GK.  I haven't tried it yet.   I like my fires. My only 2 witherer achievements have been due to GK seconds..   I'll keep that.

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If any of those previous videos are the ones I saw, where the GK is broad to a bow on Yam that isn't firing back,  well that just doesn't happen in real time in the game and isn't a good measure of anything.  Real time BB brawls aren't static fights and that certainly isn't a good indicator.  Sure.  It shows that IFE can pen a Yam bow....but that isn't that half of a real BB battle.  Real time the Yam Pens the GK and probably wins that match.

Edited by CaptGodzillaPig

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The FDG, which you said you are running, is a T9 BB.  I can tell you from extensive running back and forth with IFE and not that the extra damage you get on the FD with IFE is not worth it compared to the fire damage you get without it.   There have been some topics, one in a thread I started on this subject, regarding the effectiveness of IFE on the GK.  I haven't tried it yet.   I like my fires. My only 2 witherer achievements have been due to GK seconds..   I'll keep that.

With th bow camping epidemic at high tiers infecting not only bbs, but cruisers like moskva and minotaur as well... if he is a permanent on my gk skipper.

 

A bow on target it is very difficult to set more than two fires, the bow and forward superstructure.  Your shells simply don't hit the [edited]end of a bow camping ship.  Ergo, yup simply don't set enough fires.

 

Add in that secondaries are programmed to target upper belt armor instead of superstructure and you find that without ifhe you waste most of your secondary shells as shatters, even against comparatively thinly armored T9 n t10 cruisers, further reducing your damage.

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If any of those previous videos are the ones I saw, where the GK is broad to a bow on Yam that isn't firing back,  well that just doesn't happen in real time in the game and isn't a good measure of anything.  Real time BB brawls aren't static fights and that certainly isn't a good indicator.  Sure.  It shows that IFE can pen a Yam bow....but that isn't that half of a real BB battle.  Real time the Yam Pens the GK and probably wins that match.

An angled gk at less than 10km can become cit immune to even a yammys guns.  There's no guarantee the yammy wins, even less so when your secondaries are pumping out the equivalent to a full broadside of main gun normal pen damage over the course of the 1v1.&

 

Straight bow on the yammy overmatches the gk easily... but a straight on gk isn't giving his secondaries sufficient firing arcs to do anything, nor is he angling to bounce the yammys shells on his angled belt armor... remember, even those 18 inch shells have an autobounce range too.

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You have yet to learn the art of switching to HE when getting into a bow in stagnant BB fight...    You will be fine young padewan, once you learn the ways of HE force.  And while I appreciate your assessment, my actual in game data over roughly 100 games proves different.  I do (did) far greater damage in my FD (the ship in question) when considering my secondary hit AND fire damage without IFE that the sum total of both with IFE.   You can talk woulda could shoulda's all you want.  I took real time data over a realistic number of games to gather such, and made my decision from there.   I haven't tried IFE on GK yet, so I can't speak realistically to that, but as I said, my only 2 witherers in this game came from GK fires.  I can't argue with that.

Edited by CaptGodzillaPig

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An angled gk at less than 10km can become cit immune to even a yammys guns.  There's no guarantee the yammy wins, even less so when your secondaries are pumping out the equivalent to a full broadside of main gun normal pen damage over the course of the 1v1.&

 

Straight bow on the yammy overmatches the gk easily... but a straight on gk isn't giving his secondaries sufficient firing arcs to do anything, nor is he angling to bounce the yammys shells on his angled belt armor... remember, even those 18 inch shells have an autobounce range too.

 

The video in question does not show an angled GK.  THe GK is straight broadside to the full bow on Yam and both are sitting still.  Additionally the Yam, being a training ground ship, never fires it's mains.   This would never happen in a real match up and as such the data provided in the video is false.  A full broadside GK to the Yam's bow guns would take massive Pen damage given the Yammy knew how to shoot.  The damage taken from the Yam mains would far out pace the damage dealt by bow penning secondaries from the GK. Additionally, I don't think the training Yam was even firing its seconds back at the GK.  Add that with the main gun fire and the GK wouldn't stand a chance.  If you don't believe that assessment, go get yourself full broadside to a bow on Yam at around 8k range and let me know how that turns out for you.
Edited by CaptGodzillaPig

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No.

 

I played around in training room with this.  You give up too much losing that percentage of fire chance.  The benefit is not as great as the trade off.  While the IFHE will be nice against CL and DDs, the majority of your secondary engagements are going to be against BBs where the loss of fire chance is huge.

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No.

 

I played around in training room with this.  You give up too much losing that percentage of fire chance.  The benefit is not as great as the trade off.  While the IFHE will be nice against CL and DDs, the majority of your secondary engagements are going to be against BBs where the loss of fire chance is huge.

 

This.  For some reason it won't let me upvote you.  Server down still maybe?  I will come back for the upvote later.  TAKE IT!!   TAAAAAKE IT!

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No.

 

I played around in training room with this.  You give up too much losing that percentage of fire chance.  The benefit is not as great as the trade off.  While the IFHE will be nice against CL and DDs, the majority of your secondary engagements are going to be against BBs where the loss of fire chance is huge.

 

Pretty much this, also those 4 points could be spent on more tanky skills or other things to help you last longer in fights and pump out more secondary damage anyway.
Edited by RipNuN2

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You have yet to learn the art of switching to HE when getting into a bow in stagnant BB fight...    You will be fine young padewan, once you learn the ways of HE force.  And while I appreciate your assessment, my actual in game data over roughly 100 games proves different.  I do (did) far greater damage in my FD (the ship in question) when considering my secondary hit AND fire damage without IFE that the sum total of both with IFE.   You can talk woulda could shoulda's all you want.  I took real time data over a realistic number of games to gather such, and made my decision from there.   I haven't tried IFE on GK yet, so I can't speak realistically to that, but as I said, my only 2 witherers in this game came from GK fires.  I can't argue with that.

 

its entirely anecdotal (as is your own support) but ill take consistently doing 20-40k damage from secondaries alone without having to do anything beyond alt-clicking someone once in awhile,over sporadically getting whitherer achievements.

 

i feel you, i do, my most recent whitherer came from fires set by secondaries in my tirp... i know how nice that can be.  but it occurs just too infrequently at t10 to be worth it imo.  without ifhe, you'll die having done less damage than you potentially could have far more often than you'll die having done more damage than you should have.  also... while there's certainly a time and place to fire he at angled bow-campers... when you're within secondary range is not that time, nor is it that place.

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The video in question does not show an angled GK.  THe GK is straight broadside to the full bow on Yam and both are sitting still.  Additionally the Yam, being a training ground ship, never fires it's mains.   This would never happen in a real match up and as such the data provided in the video is false.  A full broadside GK to the Yam's bow guns would take massive Pen damage given the Yammy knew how to shoot.  The damage taken from the Yam mains would far out pace the damage dealt by bow penning secondaries from the GK. Additionally, I don't think the training Yam was even firing its seconds back at the GK.  Add that with the main gun fire and the GK wouldn't stand a chance.  If you don't believe that assessment, go get yourself full broadside to a bow on Yam at around 8k range and let me know how that turns out for you.

 

you're right, it doesn't show an angled gk.

 

in reality, the gk would be angled.

 

you're quick to point out that the yammy is acting unrealistically in order to prop up your argument as to why this wouldn't work... but you conveniently dismiss the fact that the gk is also acting unrealistically.

 

yes, hypothetically the yammy wouldn't just sit still like that.  yes, hypothetically the yammy would shoot back.  in which case, yes the gk would be [edited] if it didn't act hypothetically as well and angle in response.

 

you are trying to tell us that "if the yammy did this, which it would in real life, the results would have been different" which is true... but you presume that even as the yammy acts differently than it does in the video so as to come out better in that fight, the gk won't do anything differently, when in reality, if the yammy acts differently, so too will the gk act differently, and as a result the outcome would not be as assured as you falsely attempt to portray it by only acknowledging that half of the variables which favor your position while dismissing any variables that would undermine your presumption.

 

tldr: you asserted that the video results are false because the yammy would've acted differently.  i countered your hypothetical of the yammy acting differently with a hypothetical of the gk also acting differently.  whether the yammy and gk are acting statically, as in the video, or are both acting dynamically, as we hypothetically propose, the results will be the same.

 

but regardless of all that... none of this is even relevant to the issue at hand!  even if the gk does die quickly to the yammy because of the yammy acting differently, none of that invalidates the fact that ifhe secondaries are proven to do more damage in any given equal span of time than non-ifhe secondaries.

Edited by Shadeylark

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