Secondaries and smoke - how do they work? Torpedoes too...

[Herr_Reitz]

Today in a combat against a Bismarck in my Tirptiz, the Bismarck got doused in smoke by a red DD. The dd came out of smoke - or perhaps a nearby ship put radar to him - but in either case I killed him. I'd moved off from the Bismarck a good distance so I turned back towards the smoke. As I approached the smoke - undetected per the Priority Targeting indicator (no planes, no radar, no hydro, nothing) his secondaries started firing upon me. 

 

I could not see him. Oh how I wish I'd left him targeted with my secondaries but I had switched them to the DD i eventually sank. I was at least 4 to 5 km from the smoke. I followed the secondaries coming out of the smoke and fired a salvo back. I got a hit but nothing of value. The secondaries stopped... then started again but this time there was a ship that had caught us. 

 

What I want to know is this: do secondaries work some kinda magic in smoke when you leave them locked to a previously targeted ship? Is it possible the smoke opened for a moment allowing the secondaries to fire? 

 

During all of this I'm looking around my display to see who or what was lighting me up for his secondaries but the initial attack indicated nothing had spotted me. 

 

Anyone else noticed this? Would appreciate an explanation because I'm curious. 

 

Part Two: 

Torpedoes... dropped by bombers they have a minimum range to activate, right? I thought ship launched torpedoes also had this feature... is I wrong? 

 

tia fyc

[Unabletony]

I'm not sure about the first one, but air dropped torps do have an arming distance. Videos showcasing Kaga have a few of these close drops that don't arm.

[RipNuN2]

Without a replay it's hard to say what happened in the first part. Yes plane launched torps have an arming distance, it's quite a bit further out from the ship launched arming distance. If you select the torps on one of your ships and swing it out, where the green cone starts indicates where the torps will arm. This is very handy if you are in a brawl to make sure your torps have enough room to arm.

[BGolightly]

Today in a combat against a Bismarck in my Tirptiz, the Bismarck got doused in smoke by a red DD. The dd came out of smoke - or perhaps a nearby ship put radar to him - but in either case I killed him. I'd moved off from the Bismarck a good distance so I turned back towards the smoke. As I approached the smoke - undetected per the Priority Targeting indicator (no planes, no radar, no hydro, nothing) his secondaries started firing upon me. 

 

I could not see him. Oh how I wish I'd left him targeted with my secondaries but I had switched them to the DD i eventually sank. I was at least 4 to 5 km from the smoke. I followed the secondaries coming out of the smoke and fired a salvo back. I got a hit but nothing of value. The secondaries stopped... then started again but this time there was a ship that had caught us. 

 

What I want to know is this: do secondaries work some kinda magic in smoke when you leave them locked to a previously targeted ship? Is it possible the smoke opened for a moment allowing the secondaries to fire? 

 

During all of this I'm looking around my display to see who or what was lighting me up for his secondaries but the initial attack indicated nothing had spotted me. 

 

Anyone else noticed this? Would appreciate an explanation because I'm curious. 

 

Part Two: 

Torpedoes... dropped by bombers they have a minimum range to activate, right? I thought ship launched torpedoes also had this feature... is I wrong?

 

That's correct, ship-launched torpedoes have a minimum arming distance. It is very, very short, though - it's indicated by the inner radius of the green torpedo targeting arc (i.e., the edge closest to your ship).

 

I'm not sure about secondaries, but I have on occasion seen my secondaries fire on a previously-selected target before the target is actually rendered as visible to me. I've attributed it to the "fade-in/fade-out" visual effects added a few patches ago, but I really don't know what's going on there.

 

It's possible that your enemy's secondaries were actually set to target someone behind you, and you were just caught in the spray, but without seeing what you saw I really couldn't tell you.

[Sotaudi]

 

That's correct, ship-launched torpedoes have a minimum arming distance. It is very, very short, though - it's indicated by the inner radius of the green torpedo targeting arc (i.e., the edge closest to your ship).

 

I'm not sure about secondaries, but I have on occasion seen my secondaries fire on a previously-selected target before the target is actually rendered as visible to me. I've attributed it to the "fade-in/fade-out" visual effects added a few patches ago, but I really don't know what's going on there.

 

It's possible that your enemy's secondaries were actually set to target someone behind you, and you were just caught in the spray, but without seeing what you saw I really couldn't tell you.

 

This.

 

You can see the arming mechanic most clearly when watching a friendly torpedo bomber squadron launch torps.  When they are dropped, indicators will appear in the water showing their positions. After a short time, the indicators will brighten indicating they have armed.  If they hit something before that happens, they will not detonate.

 

 

The same process happens with ship launched torps, though, as BGolightly mentions, the arming distance is much shorter, so it usually happens too fast to see that.  However, as BG notes, the torpedo lead indicator (and firing arc) does not start right at the launchers.  There is a gap before it starts.  That gap is the arming distance.  If you are close enough to the target that it falls within that arc, the torpedoes will not detonate.

 

 

As to the secondaries, if you were not spotted, it is almost certain that they were not firing at you.  The Bismarck secondaries can fire out to around 10 km when properly spec'ed.  What most likely was happening is that a ship behind you was within 10 km of the two of you, and the Bismarck secondaries were firing at him, and since you were between them, you were catching some of the shots.

 

 

Of course, given the accuracy of the drunken secondary gunners on ships, they may well have been firing at someone on the opposite side of the Bismarck, too. 

 

[Atom_Alchemist]

Today in a combat against a Bismarck in my Tirptiz, the Bismarck got doused in smoke by a red DD. The dd came out of smoke - or perhaps a nearby ship put radar to him - but in either case I killed him. I'd moved off from the Bismarck a good distance so I turned back towards the smoke. As I approached the smoke - undetected per the Priority Targeting indicator (no planes, no radar, no hydro, nothing) his secondaries started firing upon me. 

 

I could not see him. Oh how I wish I'd left him targeted with my secondaries but I had switched them to the DD i eventually sank. I was at least 4 to 5 km from the smoke. I followed the secondaries coming out of the smoke and fired a salvo back. I got a hit but nothing of value. The secondaries stopped... then started again but this time there was a ship that had caught us. 

 

What I want to know is this: do secondaries work some kinda magic in smoke when you leave them locked to a previously targeted ship? Is it possible the smoke opened for a moment allowing the secondaries to fire? 

 

During all of this I'm looking around my display to see who or what was lighting me up for his secondaries but the initial attack indicated nothing had spotted me. 

 

Anyone else noticed this? Would appreciate an explanation because I'm curious. 

 

Part Two: 

Torpedoes... dropped by bombers they have a minimum range to activate, right? I thought ship launched torpedoes also had this feature... is I wrong? 

 

tia fyc

 

part one.

 

the priority target skill doesn't say if you are DETECTED, it merely states that you are TARGET locked. the skill you are thinking of is situational awareness...which everyone has by default now, that said, secondary fire at targets that are DETECTED (they don't need to be locked) and are within range, furthermore secondary shell velocity is VERY low and at long range it can take forever for shells previously fired at a detect target to actually hit, (example you get spotted, his secondaries fire you become unspotted, all within about a second, atleast one volley of secondary fire is coming at you and it can take 4 or 5 seconds for that volley to reach you)

 

part two, yep all torpedoes have a minimum arming distance, it's easy to see on ship launched because where your firing arc begins is the arming distance when launching torpedoes, on aircraft it's a little harder because their is no stat for the distance the torpedo has to travel in water before arming, but it's there.

[Herr_Reitz]

Okay - so I'm not going bonkers quite yet... close to the edge, down by the corner... but not yet there. This is good. If I should encounter a part one again, I'm going to make sure to save the replay. 

 

Part two I thought was correct, that ship launched torps had a minimum range... but the DD driver told me nope, which of course got my mind thinking I must have misimagined it. 

 

Appreciate ALL of your input folks - thanks much! 

[HMCS_Devilfish]

If the Bismarck had manual target lock on you his secondaries would fire as soon as you became sootted , either with his radar or enemy , of late ive noticed ships shooting out of smoke accurately even though im not spotted by any other ship , not sure what spotting mechanic is in play but it seems to have started when the shoot your guns you become visable mechanic was  done

[Gashaus]

I ran into something similar. I'm in my Mino and smoke up. Fire one salvo and get return fire that hits. I reverse, to back edge of smoke without firing. Bam!! 3 citadel hits. Situational awareness never alerted me of being targeted. I congratulated the guy for being a good shot. Just seems a little wonky.

[BGolightly]

I ran into something similar. I'm in my Mino and smoke up. Fire one salvo and get return fire that hits. I reverse, to back edge of smoke without firing. Bam!! 3 citadel hits. Situational awareness never alerted me of being targeted. I congratulated the guy for being a good shot. Just seems a little wonky.

 

If the "detected" icon didn't pop up, then you probably weren't visible. That's just an opposing player seeing your shells flying out of the smoke and gauging your location accordingly. The follow-up hits were probably just lucky dispersion.

 

I've citadeled concealed Minotaurs and Neptunes enough times with Hindenburg to be pretty well turned-off of the Royal Navy cruisers. The smoke-and-shell tactics they seem designed around just seems like a false sense of security to me.