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MexicanPanda

Hunters and/or target shooters

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Hello fellow forumers, I know this is a somewhat odd place to ask about this, but this is the only community that I am a part of right now, so eh.

 

Anyhoo, my mother has said she wants a rifle for her birthday/mothers day/maybe christmas present. She's enjoyed shooting my guns when we go out to the range, and has decided she wants something she can go hunting with and shooting at the range. She has said she wants a bolt action with as little recoil as possible, since she is quite small, but she wants to be able to hunt deer with this rifle. I've narrowed down the massive library of calibers I think she might like down to half a dozen, but that's still quite a few and I would like some more opinions on them or other suggestions.

 

In our area a "long shot" is probably 150 yards, and so I've narrowed down the list to 300 blackout, 25-45 Sharps, 44 magnum, 243 Winchester, 6.5 Creedmoor and 308 Winchester. The 300 Blackout and 25-45 Sharps are nice since I can just get or build her an upper for my AR-15 until she gets her own lower. The 44 magnum would be excellent if I could find her a Ruger 77/44, but those are kinda hard to find and quite pricey. The 243 is nice because of it's lack of recoil and versatility in being able to take everything from deer on down, but I have heard it really wears out barrels quickly. The 6.5 Creedmoor kinda fills the same niche as the 243 in my opinion, but doesn't wear out barrels quite as fast. The problem I have with both of these calibers is that they seem to be a bit excessive for the ranges she'd be shooting at. Finally, the 308 is pushing the recoil limit for my mother, but if we put a muzzle brake on her rifle, then she should be just fine with it.

 

I would be reloading some ammo for her, so that should mitigate some of the costs for her ammo, so that shouldn't be a massive consideration. Other than that, I guess I'd just like whatever knowledge and opinions any of you can share with me. Thank you in advance for any help.

 

Update: My mom has picked the 44 Magnum as her first choice. 300 blackout as her second choice.

 

Update 2: The Ruger 77/44 was gone by the time my mom had made her choice and I was able to get back to the store to check it out. Now she has two main options. Go with a 6.5mm gun in the form of the 6.5 Creedmoor or 260 Remington, or go with a 30 cal gun in the form of a 300 blackout or 308. I'm biased and hoping she picks one of the 30 cal ones. =P

 

Update 3: Should be the final update, my mom didn't end up picking a caliber, but she agreed with the one I settled on for her. I already ordered her an upper chambered in 300 blackout, and I'll be building her a complete AR. So I've got her presents covered for the next 3 years or so. :P Thank you everyone for your help.

Edited by MexicanPanda
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Well I would also suggest a Mannlicher(not sure I spelled that right) 7mm . Do not know prices or availability of guns anymore since I can not use them due to what my Rheumatoid Arthritis  has done to my hands .

:honoring:

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Is Mom really going to shoot enough to wear out a barrel, even in the .243?

 

Depends on how busy she is, but it would probably take her a few years to wear out a 243, and quite a few more to wear out the others.

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I would vote for the .243 because of the low recoil and proven effectiveness as a deer rifle.  I am not sure if barrel wear would be an issue as you should get 1,500 rounds plus out of the barrel and probably more if the loads are not too hot.   

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I have a Mossberg 4x4 in .270 Winchester and while I have yet to take it out hunting but it is rather affordable, both rifle price and ammo price. Gunbroker shows a variety of calibers, and none break the 600 dollar range.

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I have a Mossberg 4x4 in .270 Winchester and while I have yet to take it out hunting but it is rather affordable, both rifle price and ammo price. Gunbroker shows a variety of calibers, and none break the 600 dollar range.

 

I've looked at the 270 as a caliber choice, and I guess maybe with a muzzle brake it /might/ work for her, but so far I haven't considered it too strong a contender.

 

I would vote for the .243 because of the low recoil and proven effectiveness as a deer rifle.  I am not sure if barrel wear would be an issue as you should get 1,500 rounds plus out of the barrel and probably more if the loads are not too hot.   

 

The 243 is very tempting, but something just nibbles at me the wrong way when I look at the approximately 1,500 rounds that will go though a 243 barrel before accuracy starts dropping off vs the approximately 5,000 that can go through a 308 barrel.

 

 

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I would vote for a shotgun with both a smooth and rifle barrel.  You can bust clay targets and hit deer up to 150 yards.  As a bonus, you may be able to have her attend shooting lessons for free.  In Illinois, I teach Wingshooting both Hunter Level and Youth and Women Level.  Our Youth and Women classes are free to the participants and there are 28 ga semi-automatic shotguns for students to use.  For a beginner, I would suggest a 20 ga semi-auto with light loads which keeps the punishment down and the weight is easier to adapt.

 

Otherwise, a 5.56 (.223) might be another option.  AR platforms are good for deer with the right loads and tips.

 

Most of all, congrats on your Mom being an interested shooter.  Always happy to see more join the sport.

Edited by bat1159man

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I would vote for a shotgun with both a smooth and rifle barrel.  You can bust clay targets and hit deer up to 150 yards.  As a bonus, you may be able to have her attend shooting lessons for free.  In Illinois, I teach Wingshooting both Hunter Level and Youth and Women Level.  Our Youth and Women classes are free to the participants and there are 28 ga semi-automatic shotguns for students to use.  For a beginner, I would suggest a 20 ga semi-auto with light loads which keeps the punishment down and the weight is easier to adapt.

 

Otherwise, a 5.56 (.223 might be another option.  AR platforms are good for deer with the right loads and tips.

 

Most of all, congrats on your Mom being an interested shooter.  Always happy to see more join the sport.

 

I have mentioned to her that if she were to only get one firearm, it should be a shotgun, since she can do literally everything with it, but she said she wanted a rifle for now. There isn't much recreational use for a shotgun in our area, since any clubs that do clay shooting are rather uppity and have a massive waiting list or the people that used to attend, no longer do. She can however use her rifle and mine at the range we go to or on the rare occasion that we get to go down to my friend's property and bang some steel plates there.

 

On using a 223 AR for deer, I've heard of some people using that caliber, but I'm not 100% sold on the idea yet. This is kinda why I was liking the 300 Blackout or 25-45 Sharps. Not saying 223 can't do the job, but I simply don't know enough yet to know whether I can trust it to do the job.

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Is Mom really going to shoot enough to wear out a barrel, even in the .243?

 

This.. 4 to 5 thousand rounds.. If you heard something about burning out barrels, it was probally the .243 wsm.. Its the best also in easy to find inexpensive ammounition. I have several, favorite is Rem 700.. best price id ssvsge 110

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Unfortunately, it's been too long I don't recall what exactly what rifle we used at the scouts thing (anything I find is a lever action, ones where I was were bolt) or that my Uncle showed me fully. Pretty sure my uncles rifle was akin to a 7.62 or it was a 30-06. Hard to recall with his extensive collection which I used over a decade ago. But if recoil is an issue, I'd say go with the .300. Definitely has some stopping power and a medium range round. Personally I'd go for more for the .308 as to whats on the list but better to stay under her limits and stick with a round that is better suited for an AR platform and lower recoil. I know too many people that went "I'm a bada**" and broke something cause they couldn't properly handle the damn recoil. And the countless I've smacked upside the head for, even though generally not real guns, holding them sideways when it comes to hand guns.

 

Plus, seem to be enough things that chamber for that round, .300 blackout seems to be the way to go.

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I have mentioned to her that if she were to only get one firearm, it should be a shotgun, since she can do literally everything with it, but she said she wanted a rifle for now. There isn't much recreational use for a shotgun in our area, since any clubs that do clay shooting are rather uppity and have a massive waiting list or the people that used to attend, no longer do. She can however use her rifle and mine at the range we go to or on the rare occasion that we get to go down to my friend's property and bang some steel plates there.

 

On using a 223 AR for deer, I've heard of some people using that caliber, but I'm not 100% sold on the idea yet. This is kinda why I was liking the 300 Blackout or 25-45 Sharps. Not saying 223 can't do the job, but I simply don't know enough yet to know whether I can trust it to do the job.

 

Excellent, you did the right thing by offering alternatives.  That is all you can do.  If you want another suggestion, the good ole .30-06 would be a possibility.  I have several from the Garand to the Springfield to my hunting rifle, the Remington 700.  Nice thing about the .30-06 is that all major manufacturers produce them, they are usually reasonable in cost with frequent sales and the ammunition options are fantastic plus ten to be lower.

.

Keep us posted on what you decide and good luck.

.

BTW, I know what you mean about uppity as many ares suffer from that syndrome.  That is why we have a group that has been shooting together for 20 years, no pretensions just a lot of fun.

 

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Unfortunately, it's been too long I don't recall what exactly what rifle we used at the scouts thing (anything I find is a lever action, ones where I was were bolt) or that my Uncle showed me fully. Pretty sure my uncles rifle was akin to a 7.62 or it was a 30-06. Hard to recall with his extensive collection which I used over a decade ago. But if recoil is an issue, I'd say go with the .300. Definitely has some stopping power and a medium range round. Personally I'd go for more for the .308 as to whats on the list but better to stay under her limits and stick with a round that is better suited for an AR platform and lower recoil. I know too many people that went "I'm a bada**" and broke something cause they couldn't properly handle the damn recoil. And the countless I've smacked upside the head for, even though generally not real guns, holding them sideways when it comes to hand guns.

 

Plus, seem to be enough things that chamber for that round, .300 blackout seems to be the way to go.

 

308 is what my new rifle is going to be chambered in, and even I want to out a muzzle brake on it just so I don't have to worry at all about recoil. The 300 blackout does look nice, next to no recoil,  cheap to reload and it's "max range" is about in line with the max range we'd be taking shots at. Also, that's the caliber my dad wants too. :P

 

 

Excellent, you did the right thing by offering alternatives.  That is all you can do.  If you want another suggestion, the good ole .30-06 would be a possibility.  I have several from the Garand to the Springfield to my hunting rifle, the Remington 700.  Nice thing about the .30-06 is that all major manufacturers produce them, they are usually reasonable in cost with frequent sales and the ammunition options are fantastic plus ten to be lower.

.

Keep us posted on what you decide and good luck.

.

BTW, I know what you mean about uppity as many ares suffer from that syndrome.  That is why we have a group that has been shooting together for 20 years, no pretensions just a lot of fun.

 

 

I know 30-06 would be too much for my mom. She barely liked shooting my 308 ishapore before I sold it in preparation for getting her rifle and a replacement for myself. Then again, muzzle brakes are wonderful things, so there might be one in our future. :P Especially with how much I tease my dad about getting him one.
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On a second thought, maybe this will do for her.........

.

De1TSP0.jpg

 

can rest on the ground and the bipod stock pole help the recoil......

Edited by bat1159man

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I've looked at the 270 as a caliber choice, and I guess maybe with a muzzle brake it /might/ work for her, but so far I haven't considered it too strong a contender.

 

 

The 243 is very tempting, but something just nibbles at me the wrong way when I look at the approximately 1,500 rounds that will go though a 243 barrel before accuracy starts dropping off vs the approximately 5,000 that can go through a 308 barrel.

 

 

 

Well, my .270 has no break and is very little more than my AR 15 in terms of recoil...

 

Unless I've got it bipodded and am not holding it right. Then it kicks something fierce, worse than my .50 in all honesty. But then I stand up and shoot it free hand and...nothing. Weird.

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Once you decide on a gun, for that extra little touch, why not get it laser or acid etched?

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The best all purpose rifle round ever invented is the 30-06.

Audie Murphy carried one in WW2,

and he was only 5 foot 4 inches tall;

not a big guy.

 

it will take down a deer at 1,000 yards;

you can buy ammo everywhere,

and it is an American round so all the ballistics and other data are easily obtainable.

It is a better round than .308,

won't hurt her hand like a .44 Magnum,

and it is a very reliable weapon which is available from multiple manufacturers in Bolt Action style.

 

Edited by Umikami

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Mild recoil, look into 6.5 Swede.  It gets a lot of attention in the long range crowd, and is a sleeper in the US.  Tikka would be a good place to start looking.  7mm Mauser is another older cartridge that doesn't get much respect these days.

 

6.5 Creedmore is the new cool kid on the block.  I am not up to speed on it, but it is popular in the precision shooting world.  .300BLK is a specialty cartridge.  Most shooters I know use only the subsonic round with a can.  I can't recall anyone using the supersonic round.  I tend to prefer cartridges that have been around a decade or more.  Every few years a new round looks promising, then gets relegated to the passe when the gun rags 'discover' the next big round.  I had a lot of hope for 6.8SPC, but that is now a niche round.  :(

 

7.62x39 (yes, the AK-47 round) in a CZ bolt gun is another option.  Low recoil, easy ammo to find.  Ballistics are close to the .30-30.  I would suggest the .30-30 only if you or your mother desire a lever action.  Nothing wrong with those, but the tube magazine limits you to round nose bullets.  But a .44Magnum in a lever rifle would be an amazing option.

Edited by Irishwind

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The best all purpose rifle round ever invented is the 30-06.

Audie Murphy carried one in WW2,

and he was only 5 foot 4 inches tall;

not a big guy.

 

it will take down a deer at 1,000 yards;

you can buy ammo everywhere,

and it is an American round so all the ballistics and other data are easily obtainable.

It is a better round than .308,

won't hurt her hand like a .44 Magnum,

and it is a very reliable weapon which is available from multiple manufacturers in Bolt Action style.

 

 

I think OP meant a .44 magnum...rifle. Not a handgun or revolver. Granted, I have never seen a .44 magnum bolt action, though a good friend of mine has a beautiful .44 levergun.

 

For target shooting, I'd suggest a Rossi Puma M92. It's a .38/.357 levergun and even with the hottest .357 I loaded into it, it was about..well..the recoil of my AR. Put .38Special in it and..uh...did...did it shoot? *works lever* Well that's an empty casing!" =p

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What about the Mosin Nagant? As bat-man said, the Remington 700 is pretty nice as well. Not sure how your mom feels about guns with a wood finish, but I think it would be neat.   

 

Edited by Yoshiblue

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A Mosin Nagant?  Good news is the second shot with set the shoulder back that the first one displaced! :trollface:

 

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On a second thought, maybe this will do for her.........

.

De1TSP0.jpg

 

can rest on the ground and the bipod stock pole help the recoil......

Haha, if that didn't cost a fortune and a half while also being made of "pure evil features" that are banned in my state, I'd buy it in a heartbeat. XD

 

 

Well, my .270 has no break and is very little more than my AR 15 in terms of recoil...

 

Unless I've got it bipodded and am not holding it right. Then it kicks something fierce, worse than my .50 in all honesty. But then I stand up and shoot it free hand and...nothing. Weird.

 

Absorbing the recoil with your whole body vs. absorbing it with just your shoulder. Part of the reason she did t like my 308 Ishapore, since it was too heavy for really anyone but me to shoot free hand, and even I wasn't the biggest fan of free handing it.

 

Once you decide on a gun, for that extra little touch, why not get it laser or acid etched?

 

Maybe I can do that to her gun for next year's present. Especially if she actually likes the gun after that time.

Mild recoil, look into 6.5 Swede.  It gets a lot of attention in the long range crowd, and is a sleeper in the US.  Tikka would be a good place to start looking.  7mm Mauser is another older cartridge that doesn't get much respect these days.

 

6.5 Creedmore is the new cool kid on the block.  I am not up to speed on it, but it is popular in the precision shooting world.  .300BLK is a specialty cartridge.  Most shooters I know use only the subsonic round with a can.  I can't recall anyone using the supersonic round.  I tend to prefer cartridges that have been around a decade or more.  Every few years a new round looks promising, then gets relegated to the passe when the gun rags 'discover' the next big round.  I had a lot of hope for 6.8SPC, but that is now a niche round.  :(

 

7.62x39 (yes, the AK-47 round) in a CZ bolt gun is another option.  Low recoil, easy ammo to find.  Ballistics are close to the .30-30.  I would suggest the .30-30 only if you or your mother desire a lever action.  Nothing wrong with those, but the tube magazine limits you to round nose bullets.  But a .44Magnum in a lever rifle would be an amazing option.

 

I agree that 6.5 Swede would be nice, really regret not picking up the one swedish Mauser I saw a few months ago. But 6.5 Creedmoor should make a good replacement and with more options for platforms and customization afterwards. The 7.62x39 in that cz could also be good, I'll have to see if I can find one so I can add that to the list of options. As for the 30-30, I agree that it's an awesome cartridge and love shooting my dad's Winchester 94 in it, but my mom said she didn't want a lever gun, so unfortunately, that rules out a lot of nice deer calibers.

 

 

I think OP meant a .44 magnum...rifle. Not a handgun or revolver. Granted, I have never seen a .44 magnum bolt action, though a good friend of mine has a beautiful .44 levergun.

 

For target shooting, I'd suggest a Rossi Puma M92. It's a .38/.357 levergun and even with the hottest .357 I loaded into it, it was about..well..the recoil of my AR. Put .38Special in it and..uh...did...did it shoot? *works lever* Well that's an empty casing!" =p

 

Oh, you mean like one I have already? :P The Rossi 92s are great guns, have one in 357 and will be looking for one in 45 Colt eventually. My mom liked my 357, until she had a ND with it at the range and she went on the attack saying the gun was no good and other things. Hence why she wants a bolt action or semiauto now. But the Ruger 77 has a version chambered in 44 mag and one in 357, though only used ones are available now since Ruger discontinued the guns last year.

 

What about the Mosin Nagant? As bat-man said, the Remington 700 is pretty nice as well. Not sure how your mom feels about guns with a wood finish, but I think it would be neat.   

 

My mom likes guns with wood stocks, but a mosin would just amplify all the things she didn't like about my Ishapor, while potentially having the problems that come with a lot of Mosins.

 

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I don't hunt, would like to learn one century but, maybe something like an SKS might be an option. I saw someone mention the caliber 7.62 x39. The rifles aren't that big neither is the caliber. I actually liked the AK more than my AR cause of the kick. My SKS doesn't kick that bad. I don't know the stopping power etc...but ammo would be readily available. Mine only likes steel cased though for both SKS and AK-47. Accuracy might suffer at anything over 150 yards though... I have shot mine at 100 and they hit the steel plates and bring them down.

Don't blame her for not liking shotguns...I never liked them either. Good luck with your choice! :honoring:

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As far as the .243 barrels only being good for 1500 rounds or so, at what point are you going to consider a barrel as being worn out? There's a big difference between unacceptable accuracy for competition and unacceptable accuracy for hunting/plinking. A competitor might find his 1/2" groups opening up at 1500 rounds and call it worn out, but that same barrel will give acceptable results as a hunting rifle for 3-4K rounds, or more.

 

I have a Remington Model 600 (made in the mid '60s) in 6mm Rem., which is nearly identical to the .243. This rifle belonged to my grandma and she took several mule deer with it (I took my first with it, as well) and countless varmints. My grandparents were avid shooters and I have no idea how many rounds have been put through it, but the rifle is still capable of sub 1" groups with handloads. I'd say 1.5" groups are acceptable for hunting medium game, so this particular rifle has a lot of life left in it.

 

Those are just my thoughts on the .243. I have no experience with some of the newer cartridges you mentioned, so they may be the better choice. 

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I don't hunt, would like to learn one century but, maybe something like an SKS might be an option. I saw someone mention the caliber 7.62 x39. The rifles aren't that big neither is the caliber. I actually liked the AK more than my AR cause of the kick. My SKS doesn't kick that bad. I don't know the stopping power etc...but ammo would be readily available. Mine only likes steel cased though for both SKS and AK-47. Accuracy might suffer at anything over 150 yards though... I have shot mine at 100 and they hit the steel plates and bring them down.

Don't blame her for not liking shotguns...I never liked them either. Good luck with your choice! :honoring:

 

An SKS might not be a bad choice, though I am hesitant to look much into them. With how my state loves to ban everything fun, SKSs might be looked at as "evil" too at some point.

 

As far as the .243 barrels only being good for 1500 rounds or so, at what point are you going to consider a barrel as being worn out? There's a big difference between unacceptable accuracy for competition and unacceptable accuracy for hunting/plinking. A competitor might find his 1/2" groups opening up at 1500 rounds and call it worn out, but that same barrel will give acceptable results as a hunting rifle for 3-4K rounds, or more.

 

I have a Remington Model 600 (made in the mid '60s) in 6mm Rem., which is nearly identical to the .243. This rifle belonged to my grandma and she took several mule deer with it (I took my first with it, as well) and countless varmints. My grandparents were avid shooters and I have no idea how many rounds have been put through it, but the rifle is still capable of sub 1" groups with handloads. I'd say 1.5" groups are acceptable for hunting medium game, so this particular rifle has a lot of life left in it.

 

Those are just my thoughts on the .243. I have no experience with some of the newer cartridges you mentioned, so they may be the better choice. 

 

I realize that accuracy will only begin to drop at ~1500 rounds with the 243, which is why I am still considering it as an option, but the fact that barrel wear is even mentioned when talking about the caliber made me second guess it.

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