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Big_Spud

Things that still bother me about Colorado

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This has been done to death so many times already, but its that time again. I'm tired of it as well, so I'll keep this short and simple.

 

The recent buff the Colorado's range from 16.7km to 18.8 was an extremely welcome and much needed change. It means that Colorado players need no longer be forced to run the Artillery Plotting Room modification and sacrifice AA potency or perhaps a silly secondary build. I've run a decent number of games since the change was made last patch and the ship is definitely more palatable now. However, it has not alleviated the other issues present with the ship, and has if anything made them stand out even more.

 

The short list of glaring issues is as follows. Actually there's only one item on the list:

 

 An utter lack of a tier-appropriate hit-point pool.

 

 

Seriously, can we just give the damn thing 58,000-60,000 HP already? I don't see any reason why a tier 7 battleship should be saddled with this pathetic 50,100 pool, especially since tier 7 is where basically everything is now able to overmatch the hull plating and bow/stern sections. Colorado takes the already flagging protection of New Mexico, shaves off 3,100 HP, and gets thrown up a tier so it can get punched in the face harder.

 

 

I can't even think of what else to type on the subject. Buffing Colorado's HP pool just seems like such a clear and common sense thing to do that I am utterly baffled as to why it never happened.

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HP tends to be based on a combination of weight and tier. Colly is given a super heal to compensate, but frankly it's not enough.

 

54k would be sufficient I think. But as a Colly lover (300k elite xp, over 200 cumulative battles) a buff would be appreciated.

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HP tends to be based on a combination of weight and tier. Colly is given a super heal to compensate, but frankly it's not enough.

 

54k would be sufficient I think. But as a Colly lover (300k elite xp, over 200 cumulative battles) a buff would be appreciated.

 

The super heal doesn't make as much of a difference as it's made to out to be. Mostly because there's less of a chance to actually use it to full potential 90% of the time.

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I agree an HP buff is needed, she's too squishy for her tonnage.

 

Based on her final refit tonnage, Colorado should have 58,550 HP.

 

 

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The Colorado's HP pool is more than adequate when battling other Tier 7 battle ships.  What has made the Colorado dreadful to play is the Inertia Fuse for HE Shells skill that all of the cruisers are running.  Her 25mm deck armor is now easily penetrated by HE shells, and at 21 kts, she is too slow to flee from the threat.

 

The Tier 7 German BB's deck armor is immune to low tier HE shells (and high tier for that matter), and the Japanese BB's are fast enough to flee.

 

Giving the Colorado more HP would only mean that it would take longer for her to burn down.

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I'm all in favor of her losing the "super" heal if she gets some actual health.  Her stock HP can stay the same, since her original standard displacement wasn't significantly higher than Nagato (who also has 49k stock HP), but the top-hull HP should be about 58-59k.

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The Colorado's HP pool is more than adequate when battling other Tier 7 battle ships.  What has made the Colorado dreadful to play is the Inertia Fuse for HE Shells skill that all of the cruisers are running.  Her 25mm deck armor is now easily penetrated by HE shells, and at 21 kts, she is too slow to flee from the threat.

 

The Tier 7 German BB's deck armor is immune to low tier HE shells (and high tier for that matter), and the Japanese BB's are fast enough to flee.

 

Giving the Colorado more HP would only mean that it would take longer for her to burn down.

 

I'll agree that IFHE made things immensely worse for Colorado (and New Mexico), they seem to melt like butter now.

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Would she work as an effective secondary platform? On the PT, her secondary range went up to 8.6km.....plus she has 18 secondary guns...

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The Colorado's HP pool is more than adequate when battling other Tier 7 battle ships.  What has made the Colorado dreadful to play is the Inertia Fuse for HE Shells skill that all of the cruisers are running.  Her 25mm deck armor is now easily penetrated by HE shells, and at 21 kts, she is too slow to flee from the threat.

 

The Tier 7 German BB's deck armor is immune to low tier HE shells (and high tier for that matter), and the Japanese BB's are fast enough to flee.

 

Giving the Colorado more HP would only mean that it would take longer for her to burn down.

 

Yeah, adequate when fighting other tier 7s means it's inadequate 2/3rd of the time, especially considering how outpaced she is by tier 8 BBs.

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Yeah, adequate when fighting other tier 7s means it's inadequate 2/3rd of the time, especially considering how outpaced she is by tier 8 BBs.

 

I wouldn't count it as adequate versus other tier 7's either, considering all of them either have 6-15,000 more HP, and all but Nagato have better armor

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(Strokes chin)

 

Hmm, you know, I like this idea.  Never really thought about much of the CO recently, but I do remember the small hp pool being a pain.  Yeah I like it, let's do it.  Give her an increase for super heal trade.  I mean I don't know what to expect number wise for T6-8 RN BBs, however if the numbers are higher than CO...

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Would she work as an effective secondary platform? On the PT, her secondary range went up to 8.6km.....plus she has 18 secondary guns...

 

USN secondaries are artificially nerfed. Don't build for them.
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Colorado hard counters Scharnhorst and AP cruisers and that's about it really. In turn she's successfully countered to various degrees by everything else. Now, that used to be a good proposition when KM CLs came out, then once again when RN CLs first made their appearance and of course for a brief time when everyone and their mother seemed to be having a crush on Scharny. But under current less favorable circumstances Colorado suffers badly from IFHE, from 15"+ guns and from a general lack of speed that translates to fewer tactical opportunities.

 

I tend to agree that she does need another soft buff, and it could be anything meaningful ranging from HP or a better heal to better deck armor or a speed buff - whatever broadens her niche sufficiently to make her more effective outside of the narrow set of favorable circumstances.

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USN secondaries are artificially nerfed. Don't build for them.

They aren't as a whole, only the 5"/38 is choked.  The 5"/51 is as fast-firing in-game as it was in reality, the 5"/25 is buffed generously in potency (optimistic ROF, high fire chance and same alpha as other 5" guns despite a light shell and low velocity), and the 5"/54 might be a little bit underwhelming but is within historical parameters (it could be better within reason, but it's not super-nerfed as-is).

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Colorado hard counters Scharnhorst 

 

Exact opposite in my experience.

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They aren't as a whole, only the 5"/38 is choked.

 

Pretty critically on ROF for the ships that mount it.

 

The German 4.1in outranging the 5in/38 by the amount it does on Bismarck and Tirpitz is also a major downer. The German gun should have a max range of about 19,000 to 17,000 yards - which clearly we don't see anything like in game, but the ratio doesn't hold true leading to secondary build Bismarck's at T8 while North Carolina is very lackluster there.

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Exact opposite in my experience.

Agreed. A bow on Gnes or Scharn will bounce most shells from a Colorado, then chase it down with it's 10 kt speed advantage and drop torps. Not to mention lighting an insane amount of fires with secondaries.

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Colorado hard counters Scharnhorst and AP cruisers and that's about it really. In turn she's successfully countered to various degrees by everything else. Now, that used to be a good proposition when KM CLs came out, then once again when RN CLs first made their appearance and of course for a brief time when everyone and their mother seemed to be having a crush on Scharny. But under current less favorable circumstances Colorado suffers badly from IFHE, from 15"+ guns and from a general lack of speed that translates to fewer tactical opportunities.

 

I tend to agree that she does need another soft buff, and it could be anything meaningful ranging from HP or a better heal to better deck armor or a speed buff - whatever broadens her niche sufficiently to make her more effective outside of the narrow set of favorable circumstances.

 

I have to say, last ranked season I had a couple of opportunities to shoot more or less broadside Colorados with Belfast AP - which is not "British AP" and is not supposed to be anything to write home about - and was getting, if I remember, up to 5K salvos.  One red Colorado player commented on being surprised; so was I.  It may or may not be that the Colorado is objectively softer; it may just be that it is blocky and, of course, slow as molasses, such that it was easier (for me) to land AP correctly consistently.  Still, I'm not sure that its issues with cruisers boil down entirely to IFHE.

 

Regardless, I could certainly agree to some sort of buff.  And no, it is not just that I'm trying to grind through it now.

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The problem with the super heal is that it gets proportionally less effective the more charges you have. Someone running the max 5 charges of a standard heal can heal upto 70% of their maximum possibble health. Colorado can heal upto 92.4% of her max health. This means it's much easier to get full benefit out of the heal for other ships. Warspite compensates, (as do british high tier Cruisers), by being able to heal greater %'s of certain damage types. Thus making it more likely they'll accumulate enough healable health to get the full benefit from their super heal.

 

Even so in a perfect world Nagato still has >14k more total health if both fully use their heals.

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They aren't as a whole, only the 5"/38 is choked.  The 5"/51 is as fast-firing in-game as it was in reality, the 5"/25 is buffed generously in potency (optimistic ROF, high fire chance and same alpha as other 5" guns despite a light shell and low velocity), and the 5"/54 might be a little bit underwhelming but is within historical parameters (it could be better within reason, but it's not super-nerfed as-is).

 

The 5"/25 is firing at well within historical numbers. The shell isn't particularly light either, and it has a rather large bursting charge as well when compared to contemporary guns. Low muzzle velocity means you can make the shell walls thinner and pack more explosives in, which is good for an AA gun designed for barrage fire before radar had been invented.

 

The only secondary mount that comes to mind as being over buffed is actually the Japanese 5"/40 DP gun. That thing had a sustained rate of fire of eight RPM in real life.

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What would make the Colorado more competitive is making her final hull the Maryland or West Virginia or something. That would give her better secondaries and AA. Right now she seems thoroughly outclassed by Nagato in most meaningful measurements.

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The 5"/25 is firing at well within historical numbers. The shell isn't particularly light either, and it has a rather large bursting charge as well when compared to contemporary guns. Low muzzle velocity means you can make the shell walls thinner and pack more explosives in, which is good for an AA gun designed for barrage fire before radar had been invented.

 

The only secondary mount that comes to mind as being over buffed is actually the Japanese 5"/40 DP gun. That thing had a sustained rate of fire of eight RPM in real life.

I'll take your word for the bursting charge since I can't find a number for the MK36 HC shell, but from the bursting charge sizes on their respective AA shells, the 5"/25 comes in last among USN 5" weapons.  Then again, considering how the absurdly-superb ballistics and shells of the Russian 130mm guns only yields +100 alpha compared to the 5"/54, I guess it's not surprising that the alpha stays at 1800.

 

The Type 89 and Type 88 might be overbuffed a bit, but they're still pretty awful.  Rate of fire might be 8 sustained, but it got as high as 14 so some ground to buff it exists - the fact is that outside of point-blank range they're impractical without Manual Control for Secondary Armament because of how bloody slow the shells are.  The 2100 alpha and 8% fire chance are holdovers from the CBT "IJN HE" flavor - their DD equivalents lost it but the surface ships kept it - and really not a historical deviation so much as just outright ignoring it (as is the case with national flavor, period).  The Type 98 mounts on IbukiZaoTaiho, and Hakuryu do as much HE alpha as Akizuki's AP - 1700 - and have double the fire chance.

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I'll take your word for the bursting charge since I can't find a number for the MK36 HC shell, but from the bursting charge sizes on their respective AA shells, the 5"/25 comes in last among USN 5" weapons.  Then again, considering how the absurdly-superb ballistics and shells of the Russian 130mm guns only yields +100 alpha compared to the 5"/54, I guess it's not surprising that the alpha stays at 1800.

 

The Type 89 and Type 88 might be overbuffed a bit, but they're still pretty awful.  Rate of fire might be 8 sustained, but it got as high as 14 so some ground to buff it exists - the fact is that outside of point-blank range they're impractical without Manual Control for Secondary Armament because of how bloody slow the shells are.  The 2100 alpha and 8% fire chance are holdovers from the CBT "IJN HE" flavor - their DD equivalents lost it but the surface ships kept it - and really not a historical deviation so much as just outright ignoring it (as is the case with national flavor, period).  The Type 98 mounts on IbukiZaoTaiho, and Hakuryu do as much HE alpha as Akizuki's AP - 1700 - and have double the fire chance.

 

7.25 lb's for the MK36. The bursting charge on almost all 5" USN AAC is between 7.11-7.5 lb's on 50-55 lb shells. Bursting charge seems not to have much of an effect on shell damage, but the Soviet 130mm guns also have rather small bursters. Usually around 4-6 lb's for a 75 lb shell.

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The problem with the super heal is that it gets proportionally less effective the more charges you have. Someone running the max 5 charges of a standard heal can heal upto 70% of their maximum possibble health. Colorado can heal upto 92.4% of her max health. This means it's much easier to get full benefit out of the heal for other ships. Warspite compensates, (as do british high tier Cruisers), by being able to heal greater %'s of certain damage types. Thus making it more likely they'll accumulate enough healable health to get the full benefit from their super heal.

 

Even so in a perfect world Nagato still has >14k more total health if both fully use their heals.

My main problem with Colorado is it consistently gets bow multiple citadel pens from just about any other battleship.  Those are not healable so why does the heal matter at this point. It's even worse broadside. You get one or 2 cit pens right at the start of the match as your moving forward and the cruisers finish you off before you can even proc 2 heals. Without smoke you die before you can get behind the nearest cover due to your speed.

 

The ship is way too heavily dependant on teamwork.  

 

But at the same time, I really want this ship to have a role. So in both tier 7 ranked  seasons I played solely full AA spec Colorado. Problem is, it doesn't even make a decent AA ship due to its low AA gun ranges.  I finished rank 2 both times.  Just out of reach of rank one. It has good guns. Punchy like bayern. I'll have epic games in Colorado.  But it just feels like it's missing something still. Still much better than pre buff Colorado when I actually grinded through her before 2 years ago.  

Edited by Megrim3

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Agreed. A bow on Gnes or Scharn will bounce most shells from a Colorado, then chase it down with it's 10 kt speed advantage and drop torps. Not to mention lighting an insane amount of fires with secondaries.

 

I don't think it's quite that simple, at least assuming equally skilled opponents. A good Colorado player is sailing away from the German BB, making torps a non-factor- you will need to be within 4km for them to even reach a Colorado sailing away from you. Scharnhorst can't overmatch any part of the Colorado hull, while the Gneisenau has significantly worse damage output. Gneis and Scharn secondaries also aren't that great- they're better than the Colorado but not really game-changing in any way.

 

I think the Gneis and Scharn are better ships in random games due to their speed, but in my experience the Colorado did much better than the Scharnhorst, and probably even better than the Gneisenau at rank 5 and above last season. Stats in general probably don't represent the potential of the ship well, since the USN BB line is one of the most popular (which brings the average down), and it isn't a ship that is often revisited by experienced players (which would bring the averages up). It's counter-intuitive since it requires experience to know when to bring it in to brawl and when to use it at long range. Instinctively bringing it up closer because of the good turn characteristics and slow speed is what gets it killed prematurely by Gneis and Scharn- not because the ship is necessarily bad, but because it doesn't read well to new players.

 

In any case, the Colorado is more outclassed by the Nagato than the Scharnhorst and Gneisenau.

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