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Pussnboats

Bow Camping

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Last evening I had a game in my Bismark.  Each side had 4 T8 BBs and 2 T9s BBs.  It was one of those ones with three Caps.  Me and the other BBs on my team moved just outside the middle cap (B).  The other teams BBs, every sinlge one of them, Bow camped about 8-10ks away from the middle of A and B cap spamming HE.  Meanwhile our team capped all three caps, and all of their BBs just sat there the entire game spamming HE.  I know this is only one game so not a large sample size.  But I think this shows the current meat in the game due to the damage mechanics.  A lot of BB captains think (rightly or wrongly) that Fire Damage is better than trying to use AP or expose your broadsides.  I believe Wargaming really need to have a long hard look at damage mechanics and how they are affecting this game.  Bow camping BBs is not very fun or engaging.  

 

It appears to me that fire damage is set far too high, and citadels need to be removed completely.  Maybe then we will have ships being more dynamic and actually trying to use all their guns.  Ideas are welcome. 

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Yeah... no. Fires are the way cruisers survive fights against BBs and citadels are the way BBs kill cruisers. Removing these will make it less dynamic, not more.

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IDK. Citadels definitely need to stay. Fire damage... On one hand they are enraging as a battleship, on the other they are a cruiser's primary source of damage against BBs, I think it should stay as is. I'm not sure what they should do to get rid of bow on camping. I think it's a teamwork thing. If a BB sits back, he doesn't have to worry about his team supporting him. On the other hand, almost every time I go in and come under fire, my friendly cruisers run for their lives and abandon me.

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This has been around for so long I just consider it something normal by now. You'll get used to bow camping, HE spamming, passive play and other things as time goes by. It hasn't went away since the game launch, well over a year and well over countless changes, there's nothing that makes me think it'll ever go away.

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Last evening I had a game in my Bismark.  Each side had 4 T8 BBs and 2 T9s BBs.  It was one of those ones with three Caps.  Me and the other BBs on my team moved just outside the middle cap (B).  The other teams BBs, every sinlge one of them, Bow camped about 8-10ks away from the middle of A and B cap spamming HE.  Meanwhile our team capped all three caps, and all of their BBs just sat there the entire game spamming HE.  I know this is only one game so not a large sample size.  But I think this shows the current meat in the game due to the damage mechanics.  A lot of BB captains think (rightly or wrongly) that Fire Damage is better than trying to use AP or expose your broadsides.  I believe Wargaming really need to have a long hard look at damage mechanics and how they are affecting this game.  Bow camping BBs is not very fun or engaging.  

 

It appears to me that fire damage is set far too high, and citadels need to be removed completely.  Maybe then we will have ships being more dynamic and actually trying to use all their guns.  Ideas are welcome. 

 

no.

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I dont think it will go away.  Relying on bow camping and HE is a weakness.  HE for a BB is a tactical choice and in situations, very viable.  But relying on both means a better player is now able to exploit you.  They are bow camping?  Rain shells through their deck.  Let them chase you right broadside to your team.  I love it when ships bow tank chase me.  I angle, take damage but dish out same... Until they sail past that island and two of our BBs unload full salvo into them, or they go right into a torpedo wall.

 

Best way to end this type of play?  Players and divs to keep exploiting it.

 

As for citadels and fires, citadelling makes people play smart otherwize it would become just a dps spamfest.  HE?  If it bothers that much and is problematic, spec a damage control commander and be smarter with damage control party.  I am building a DC commander for my german line.  Thing is practically a fireproof brute.  Burn me.  I can take the heat.

Edited by Vaporisor

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Abandonment Sucks eggs, been there many times. It is a rare thing when a CA sticks with you. Today I have lost more Battles than won but the ones we won were through CA's sticking with me. There are some players who actually know their roll. I protected this CA with my Guns and armor He finished off the ship after my Citadel hits. 4 in all. 6 between us. That was half the team killed by two strangers fighting as a team. If All Cruisers only Learned their roll so many battles would be victories. Everyone would have higher damage numbers. It is not just the CA's though, Everyone needs to really learn each ships roll in any combat situation. Solo Yolo Players need to suck it up and become a team player. Campers also need to do this.1 dd 1 bb 1 ca can wreck a fleet through team work. Imagine if all 12 did it. Mutual benefits for the entire team can only be awarded to players who fight as a team.

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I've had a bunch of battleships point their bow at me and spam HE...

I dont think it will go away.  Relying on bow camping and HE is a weakness.  HE for a BB is a tactical choice and in situations, very viable.  But relying on both means a better player is now able to exploit you.  They are bow camping?  Rain shells through their deck.  Let them chase you right broadside to your team.  I love it when ships bow tank chase me.  I angle, take damage but dish out same... Until they sail past that island and two of our BBs unload full salvo into them, or they go right into a torpedo wall.

 

Best way to end this type of play?  Players and divs to keep exploiting it.

 

As for citadels and fires, citadelling makes people play smart otherwize it would become just a dps spamfest.  HE?  If it bothers that much and is problematic, spec a damage control commander and be smarter with damage control party.  I am building a DC commander for my german line.  Thing is practically a fireproof brute.  Burn me.  I can take the heat.

 

It works until they realize you're not going to attempt to bow-pen them. 8-10K salvos tend to change their minds about their decision to bow camp and spam HE at you. By then it's too late, you've already dealt double the damage they have in a shorter amount of time.

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citadels need to be removed completely.

My Neptune and New Orleans say yes.

My Iowa says...hm, Iowa gets citadeled plenty, nevermind. Yes.

 

It'll never happen though.

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Removing citadels doesn't make much sense.. I mean all that would really do is make the game last longer. I don't have time to play a match that lasts 20 minutes, every single time. Time To Kill is a statistic that HP-based games have to balance carefully around enjoyment.

 

Fire isn't that big of a deal. Don't use your repair unless you see two fires pop up.

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IDK. Citadels definitely need to stay. Fire damage... On one hand they are enraging as a battleship, on the other they are a cruiser's primary source of damage against BBs, I think it should stay as is. I'm not sure what they should do to get rid of bow on camping. I think it's a teamwork thing. If a BB sits back, he doesn't have to worry about his team supporting him. On the other hand, almost every time I go in and come under fire, my friendly cruisers run for their lives and abandon me.

 

It may not necessarily be that your support is abandoning you, just that it looks that way. I'm not saying it never happens, but it's not always just letting a ship take all the fire to save one's own hull.

 

From the other side of the coin, the cruiser needs to maintain an optimal distance to be able to not take devastating damage. If you, as a BB, want to close to 10km or less, then feel free to do so, but don't expect your cruisers to follow suit and be right with you and/or in front of you. Getting that close in a cruiser is generally a death sentence, depending on the situation of course.

 

If you're closing in on a BB, don't expect cruisers to follow. Any BB captain worth his salt will ignore you and kill off your support, because battleships can basically cancel each other out with armor angling. The cruiser cannot do the same. If you're closing in with two or three enemies still present and able to shoot back(depending on the enemies), then don't expect your cruisers to follow. Cruisers are especially weak to focus fire, possibly more so than they are to battleships in general, so don't expect them to follow you in that close as they don't have the means to stay alive as long as you do.

 

In fact, I encourage you to go back and re-analyze those situations where you felt you'd been abandoned. Look back over the replays and see if the cruisers were just maintaining distance or actually running away. Also look to see what you were pushing into. There is a correct and incorrect time for battleships to close and brawl, and if a BB captain wants support when he does, he better make sure it's the correct time to close.

 

What I mean is, look to see how many enemy ships were present and could engage you, or your support. If it was more than what you had on that flank, then you have your answer as to why your support abandoned you. Look to see how close any other enemy BBs were and how close any other allied BBs were, as that might explain why your support didn't follow you in as you closed with the closest enemy BB.

 

All the above are skills that must be learned in order to use them well, and unfortunately, battleships are the ones that get caught out the quickest and easiest when they close or push at the wrong time. Their size and maneuverability doesn't allow them to get out of those situations easily. Cruisers and destroyers are a bit more able to slip away from those situations, but their inherent fragility teaches those captains when and when not to close much better, I believe.

Edited by GhostSwordsman

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Removing citadels and nerfing fire damage would really reduce the game's strategic depth, and still wouldn't motivate passive players to engage their boilers and get into the thick of things. Did your team win? Then I don't see any issue with this tactic. It's viable, but only in limited situations, and not overpowered in the least.

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It seems like I remember a recent Q&A stating they were working on BB bow camping. Seems like it was said they had a few ideas they were working on.

Edited by Wulfgarn

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Removing citadels and nerfing fire damage would really reduce the game's strategic depth, and still wouldn't motivate passive players to engage their boilers and get into the thick of things. Did your team win? Then I don't see any issue with this tactic. It's viable, but only in limited situations, and not overpowered in the least.

 

Our team won, by a lot.  But for me the point is the process or the experience.  It is just not fun at all when your opponent is just sitting there literally doing nothing to stop you from winning except slinging HE at you.

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Last evening I had a game in my Bismark.  Each side had 4 T8 BBs and 2 T9s BBs.  It was one of those ones with three Caps.  Me and the other BBs on my team moved just outside the middle cap (B).  The other teams BBs, every sinlge one of them, Bow camped about 8-10ks away from the middle of A and B cap spamming HE.  Meanwhile our team capped all three caps, and all of their BBs just sat there the entire game spamming HE.  I know this is only one game so not a large sample size.  But I think this shows the current meat in the game due to the damage mechanics.  A lot of BB captains think (rightly or wrongly) that Fire Damage is better than trying to use AP or expose your broadsides.  I believe Wargaming really need to have a long hard look at damage mechanics and how they are affecting this game.  Bow camping BBs is not very fun or engaging.  

 

It appears to me that fire damage is set far too high, and citadels need to be removed completely.  Maybe then we will have ships being more dynamic and actually trying to use all their guns.  Ideas are welcome. 

 

​No. Bow camping, bow tanking and HE are fine in the right situations. Piss off.
Edited by Shadow_1964

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WG wants games to be shorter so folks spend money faster. The real answer is, "Ain't gonna happen." (said in Russian).

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IDK. Citadels definitely need to stay. Fire damage... On one hand they are enraging as a battleship, on the other they are a cruiser's primary source of damage against BBs, I think it should stay as is. I'm not sure what they should do to get rid of bow on camping. I think it's a teamwork thing. If a BB sits back, he doesn't have to worry about his team supporting him. On the other hand, almost every time I go in and come under fire, my friendly cruisers run for their lives and abandon me.

 

They could maybe make armor matter a little more, there was a suggesiton a while back to truncate shell angles as much as they truncated max range in order to add in immunity zones. 

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It appears to me that fire damage is set far too high, and citadels need to be removed completely.

 

lolnope

 

It's also hilarious that you complain about bow camping and then want to nerf fires, one of the hard counters to it. 

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I think BB HE is about right. It's a tool for specific situations.

 

Cruiser fire starting could be toned down if they have their citadels reduced in size (or cruiser citadels only caused 50% damage).

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lolnope

 

It's also hilarious that you complain about bow camping and then want to nerf fires, one of the hard counters to it. 

7ac.jpg

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I see a bow camper at range I throw HE at him and laugh as I burn him to the waterline.

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lolnope

 

It's also hilarious that you complain about bow camping and then want to nerf fires, one of the hard counters to it. 

 

Exactly. The whole notion is idiotic. They want to nerf this game into a snowflakefest. It's annoying. If it weren't for all the whining and nerfing we wouldn't even be faced with these issues in the first place. Now we need nerf on top of buff on top of nerf on top of buff because of derelicts out trying to scrounge for a free meal.

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