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evilleMonkeigh

Now the fuss about RDF has died down a bit...

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...what ships do you use RDF on?

Bearing in mind not everyone has a 19pt captain: would you put it on a 10-15 point captain, for instance?

Maybe a better way to word the question is: Which Tier 4 skill/s is RDF superior to?

 

For DD...
Is it ever better than AFT on a RU DD? or CE on a USN/IJN DD?

Would it be a good 2nd 4th skill, or would you be better off with extra T2 or 3  skill(s) like SE, AR, BFT, DE (or even IFHE?)
At what stage of your captain would you add it in - as a 10pt, or a 14pt captain, for example?


For cruisers....

If you use it on British CLs, is it more important than CE? 

Is it useful on other cruisers - which ones - and why?

 

For BB...

Is there any time RDF is a good idea over other captain skills?

 

Overall

Is RDF a "must have" skill for you or more an "icing on the cake"?

I'm not really interested in rants like "this is a skill no one asked for" or "I don't use it as I'm a purist and philosophically opposed" but more a simple cost vs effectiveness in the current meta:

Is it worth it as a T4 skill? At what point (i.e. 10pt, 14pt, 18-19pt) would you consider RDF, and for what ships?

Is it a skill you would only use in Ranked? or is it a must-have for Randoms?

 

It gives more information (great) but it seems a little intangible - it's hard to compare "how useful" against concrete boosts like 10% concealment, or +20% gun range, etc.  For example, you can make a value judgement of AR vs BFT, based on your estimated likelihood of getting damaged/torpedo vs gun use etc.  But it's harder to compare say AFT and RDF....

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My opinion for DDs:

USN: Must have on higher tier DDs for cap contesting

IJN: Depends on play style

Soviet: 100% No.

KM: Must have if you use them for cap contesting.

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My opinion for DDs:

USN: Must have on higher tier DDs for cap contesting

IJN: Depends on play style

Soviet: 100% No.

KM: Must have if you use them for cap contesting.

 So at what point would you put them on? After CE or before - or "instead of"?

 

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 So at what point would you put them on? After CE or before - or "instead of"?

 

 

CE first, then RPF. Just put RPF on my 14 point Mahan skipper.

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CE first, then RPF. Just put RPF on my 14 point Mahan skipper.

 So RDF ahead of whatever T3 skill you missed on the way up (SE, DE, BFT?)

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A waste of 4 points. If your smart you can figure out where an enemy is with a very high accuracy based on where your seen and the the geography of the map.

 I've also heard it said that RDF scales better with skill i.e. better players can make better use of the information on enemy ships; i.e. smart players get MORE benefit out of it....

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Use it on my US and IJN ships, very handy when capping and late in the game. Have not tried it on my RU DDs.

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 I've also heard it said that RDF scales better with skill i.e. better players can make better use of the information on enemy ships; i.e. smart players get MORE benefit out of it....

That's what many of the better players say.

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RDF gives information for blindfire solutions with torpedoes.  Makes a skilled guess a significantly better guess.   Which grid of the map in that smoke is the enemy player?  Found him.  Rough heading and speed solution for torpedoes?  Got it.  Is the cap free to take?  Yes it is or appropriate grid ping for allies.

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 So RDF ahead of whatever T3 skill you missed on the way up (SE, DE, BFT?)

 

Sure, it's been helpful. Granted I could probably reskill and get rid of it.

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I used it on a couple of DDs but removed it entirely. It is a double edge skill, a smart enemy can locate you pinpoint just based on minimap + "located" indicator. Very easy to do early game.

Useful in ranked though.

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Kamikaze R - especially helpful when hunting other Kami R or gunboat destroyers. As the ad phrase goes, "Try It! You'll Like It!"

It is somewhat of a two-edged sword though... the person being spotted knows you are there... 

 

I still believe it should have been a consumable with an on/off option... no recharge at all. Press button it's on, press button it's off. 

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I disagree. I find it hurts more than it helps. Especially in DD hunters. As for example, a 5.6 km concealability Fletcher will actually give itself away by using RDF, since now the enemy knows someone is close that they can't see. I'd rather just pop into existence 5.6 km away on an unsuspecting enemy than give him a big sign I'm coming.

 

Fletcher's max concealment is 5.8km. But to your point. The target doesn't know who shined RDF on him/her. It can be an invisible red ship or it can be one of the red ships spotted.

 

RDF tells you which direction the closest enemy is. The located signal doesn't. The ship locating you can be behind other ships.

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I disagree. I find it hurts more than it helps. Especially in DD hunters. As for example, a 5.6 km concealability Fletcher will actually give itself away by using RDF, since now the enemy knows someone is close that they can't see. I'd rather just pop into existence 5.6 km away on an unsuspecting enemy than give him a big sign I'm coming.

 

Which is the reason why being able to toggle it on or off is one suggestion I had for improvement.

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There is also a good bit of psychological warfare going on too.

After all, the person being 'watched' knows they are being watched.

This is not unlike me, in a Mahan, locking torps on a Scharnhorst 25km away.  Obviously, I can't fire..  but their 'Priority Target' shows up, causing evasive maneuvers, and slows them down.

...

On the flip side, they know somebody is out there -- somewhere closer to them than any other of their allies..

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...

On the flip side, they know somebody is out there -- somewhere closer to them than any other of their allies..

 

Again. No. It only means they are the closest ship to a enemy ship. Not vise versa. And it doesn't tell them which red ship, or what direction or distance, is locating them.

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Most of this thread discussion has involved destroyers - USN & IJN.

So.... at what stage would you consider RDF?

At 10pts as the first T4 skill, or (I presume more likely) at 14pts?

 

What about cruisers?

Mostly a skill for DD-smacking British CLs or are their others that benefit?  Would it be > CE in this case?

 

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I've used it, I found it made my targets more cagey. Especially IJN DD's. They tended to be more wary and more ready to run away. It was a liability to add to it's benefit was limited. Based on map geometry you can tell within a very strong reason where someone is. Only stopped or hiding ships get caught off guard.

 

Aside from confirmation bias, IJN DDs are supposed to act that way anyways. Being the most fragile and least defensible ships of the game and such. And being the most concealable ships, they spotted you already. I hope they do act jumpy and run away.

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Most of this thread discussion has involved destroyers - USN & IJN.

So.... at what stage would you consider RDF?

At 10pts as the first T4 skill, or (I presume more likely) at 14pts?

 

What about cruisers?

Mostly a skill for DD-smacking British CLs or are their others that benefit?  Would it be > CE in this case?

 

 

 

I think any DD captain worth the name will agree that CE is always your first choice at 10 points (the exception being, perhaps, RU DDs due to their unique playstyle).  Only at 14 pts would I consider RPF, and that on DDs intending to hunt other DDs or avoid them (USN and IJN respectively).

 

 

As for Cruisers, the same criteria, though additionally I would mainly consider it on those Cruisers which have DD hunting as a primary role (Atlanta, Belfast) and/or have the speed to run down enemy DDs (IJN, FR).  Others, I would consider other skills more critical, and even the Atlanta may consider Anti-Aircraft skills more important than RPF if it is being intended for that role instead of as a DD hunter.  I would be hesitant to give it to an RN Cruiser that only has AP rounds, as this works against fighting DDs...such ships are specialists at killing other Cruisers, and making them DD hunters is probably working against their strengths and into a weakness.

 

 

In all cases, it depends greatly on the player.  If they don't see any benefit to the skill, then they are better off taking other skills that will benefit them.  Those who do value the information this skill has will be the ones who benefit from it, not those who won't make use of it.

Edited by Jakob_Knight

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I think any DD captain worth the name will agree that CE is always your first choice at 10 points (the exception being, perhaps, RU DDs due to their unique playstyle).  Only at 14 pts would I consider RPF, and that on DDs intending to hunt other DDs or avoid them (USN and IJN respectively).

 Thanks - so it's a skill "to consider" at 14pts. 

 

 

In all cases, it depends greatly on the player.  If they don't see any benefit to the skill, then they are better off taking other skills that will benefit them.  Those who do value the information this skill has will be the ones who benefit from it, not those who won't make use of it.

 This is why I started this thread.  It's a very "subjective" skill which cannot be used as mathematically as others - you can calculate the value of AFT on USN vs RU DD, or AFT (20% range) to BFT (10% dpm).  Whereas RDF is not so much apples to oranges as apples to... hubcaps.

 

RDF is always going to be very opinion-based without any real math to back it up.

 

I'm merely wanting to get a cross-section of opinion; a  feel for "how valuable" players rate it.

Is it more valuable than CE for a destroyer?  I suspect most players would say no.   But more valuable than IFHE? Probably.... but more so than say BFT, SE or DE (3pt skills)...?

 

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I find RPF has its uses for me, I have it on my fletcher captain and gives me lots of information although not really a lot I would consider critical. For instance if you are going for C cap at the beginning can tell you that everyone on the enemy team is headed north or that a Shima that smoked up did in fact stay in the smoke instead of running away. I also use it to orient my fletcher to the most likely torpedo angles when I am in smoke.

 

 

Really though it's personal preference, I can post screenshots of me wrecking ships just like other people have done to provide some illusion of credence. However the skill is really just personal preference and deciding what you are willing to give up in order to have it.

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Again. No. It only means they are the closest ship to a enemy ship. Not vise versa. And it doesn't tell them which red ship, or what direction or distance, is locating them.

 

That depends on the situation.  Not too long ago I had a battle in my Khaba where I used RPF against its user.  I forget the map, but the details are not really important.  I started going C and was detected by RPF.  I then decided to go B, and left RPF detection, letting me know that the enemy DD was defiantly going C as he was closer to my allies in that area.  Not long after I was detected by RPF again, which told me the enemy DD in C had abandoned the cap, which was being contested by friendly DDs, and had also changed course and was headed towards B.  I inferred that would have to come through a gap in two islands, so I launched blind torps which ended up hitting and sinking an enemy Shima.

 

It doesn't always work this well, but RPF can definitely be used against its user.  Sometimes just by telling me what flank the enemy's one DD is going to, and in other cases it can acutely help me triangulate his position. 

 

 

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I find RPF has its uses for me, I have it on my fletcher captain and gives me lots of information although not really a lot I would consider critical. For instance if you are going for C cap at the beginning can tell you that everyone on the enemy team is headed north or that a Shima that smoked up did in fact stay in the smoke instead of running away. I also use it to orient my fletcher to the most likely torpedo angles when I am in smoke.

 

 

Really though it's personal preference, I can post screenshots of me wrecking ships just like other people have done to provide some illusion of credence. However the skill is really just personal preference and deciding what you are willing to give up in order to have it.

 

I have it on my Mahan skipper(which doubles on my Sims) and it's been of help with DDs hiding in smoke and knowing where to drop my torps to score a kill. But it's not a "MUST HAVE SKILL".  It's a nice skill to have.

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I run it on different ships down all the lines of DD's including UK, PA, etc..  I haven't gone past T4 on the German line, so I really can't speak to them.

 

Different ships in different situations RPF is a great benefit to have, "if" you know what you are doing. I would suggest looking at some DD Youtube vids from Flamu to get an idea on how to use it. A month or two ago he did two or three specifically for RPF, but many of his DD vids he"ll run it.

 

I am currently waiting to see what tier the upcoming Ranked season will be, but I'm pretty sure I'll be running it in that meta. Last season I didn't run it on my Blys, but more often than not I wished I did. At that point, AFT was more important.
 

I would say it's almost a must for me running IJNs. I love it on my Kami R as someone mentioned above.

 

RPF is still a hot button issue and you really can't count on everyone's advice here for it. Hit those Flamu vids and check it out for yourself. Also keep an eye on Notser, Aerroon (sp?), and ichasegaming. You are starting to see them use it more often since the "gun bloom" nerf.

 

Edited by Wulfgarn

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I don't think I'll use it - I like sneaking up on other destroyers when I'm playing my Sims/Mahan. If someone gets pinged with RDF, they are alerted that someone is watching them, making a surprise attack less likely to succeed (IMO). Take that with a pinch of salt, I'm not a pro DD player (I enjoy them but still consider them my least played class).

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