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mathewprime

Why do stats Exist? (Read full Desc)

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I'm probably going to regret this, But the reason why I ask is because players seem to like bringing stats up, for instance when you dont do well in a match and theyw ant to find someone to blame. The reason why I play World of Warships is simple: I like Battleships. I dont care much for winning as long as I have fun. Now I understand that some players take this game seriously and want good stats. But why bother? Its just a bunch of pixels. Why pick on players for not doing well?.. Usually I wouldnt bother with this question and just go full co-op mode. but that mode does need some work.. My point I'm trying to make is not everyone is going to be perfect, not everyone thrives to win. Its.. annoying when players bring up your stats to blame you for the loss. I mean I understand there are missions that require wins but.. they give plenty of time, Especially if those missions are from the campaigns. I play games to relax, have fun, when real life doesnt want me to. I'm not here to grind mindlessly. I mean teamkilling is one thing.. But in certain ships, theres only so much one can do. For instance I just recently got the Montana, A T10 US Battleship. Now the first few times I've played, It turns out to be a waste of credits. But the more i play the more I learn how to play the ship better. Its not like I'm a robot that can download data on how to play a ship that I just got. Its definitely going to take a while for me to learn how to play the Montana well. Especially with its armor layout. .. Now why did i choose the American Battleship line? I love the looks of them. Now I know the Montana, Iowa, NC, Alabama, Are designed for long range, realistically. and Wargaming goes the realistic route for Armor layouts, which is fine.. I dont mind realism, But if I cant use all four of the Montanas guns without getting Citadeled to death in the matter of seconds, I'm going to go option B. Bow in. Now sometimes even the bow armor doesnt do much against certain shells. I'm not complaining, I'm just trying to explain my view of things to the people who take it upon themselves to bully other players who arnt die-hard winners. Do I plan to get better? Eventually. But I'm not going to stress about it. Its just a game, And wargaming designed the game the way they did. there isnt much I can do. I can do my best to learn how to play her well, But I dont want to be picked on over and over in the process because I dont play well enough. I hope those who have encountered me can understand this, and to those who have picked on other players' stats because of their poor play. Now obviously this excludes Bots. I just hope my point has been made, and the.. hardcore players dont go all rage on me for this. I just want to make sure this is seen by at least some of the players that always want to win, Its not bad wanting to win. But picking on players' stats aint the solution. 

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Paragraphs are your friend.

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It varies among different people.  I use my stats because I find it fun to beat your old personal best, like a high score. 

 

There is a dark side to this however, wows is plagued with stat shaming.  Players that struggle or are bad at the game are often given harsh ridicule by "better" players even though they want to have fun like the rest of us.  It's no better then ridiculing someone for being bad at playing basket ball, or checkers.  Perhaps it's just an evolved more sophisticated version of bullying.

 

 

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no idea

stats make the game less fun to me because i don't want them to be very bad and it limits my gameplay

i gladly wish we had an option not to record them

 

thankfully we have an option to hide them, wot doesn't have even that

Edited by bad_arcade_kitty

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People overuse stats. I like them because I'm fascinated by numbers and studied statistics. They are fun and thought provoking when used well. But more often than not they are a tool of trolls and jerks.

 

Stat-shaming is the problem, not stat keeping. I think the trade off is still worth it though.

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I'm probably going to regret this, But the reason why I ask is because players seem to like bringing stats up, for instance when you dont do well in a match and theyw ant to find someone to blame. The reason why I play World of Warships is simple: I like Battleships. I dont care much for winning as long as I have fun. Now I understand that some players take this game seriously and want good stats. But why bother? Its just a bunch of pixels. Why pick on players for not doing well?.. Usually I wouldnt bother with this question and just go full co-op mode. but that mode does need some work.. My point I'm trying to make is not everyone is going to be perfect, not everyone thrives to win. Its.. annoying when players bring up your stats to blame you for the loss. I mean I understand there are missions that require wins but.. they give plenty of time, Especially if those missions are from the campaigns. I play games to relax, have fun, when real life doesnt want me to. I'm not here to grind mindlessly. I mean teamkilling is one thing.. But in certain ships, theres only so much one can do. For instance I just recently got the Montana, A T10 US Battleship. Now the first few times I've played, It turns out to be a waste of credits. But the more i play the more I learn how to play the ship better. Its not like I'm a robot that can download data on how to play a ship that I just got. Its definitely going to take a while for me to learn how to play the Montana well. Especially with its armor layout. .. Now why did i choose the American Battleship line? I love the looks of them. Now I know the Montana, Iowa, NC, Alabama, Are designed for long range, realistically. and Wargaming goes the realistic route for Armor layouts, which is fine.. I dont mind realism, But if I cant use all four of the Montanas guns without getting Citadeled to death in the matter of seconds, I'm going to go option B. Bow in. Now sometimes even the bow armor doesnt do much against certain shells. I'm not complaining, I'm just trying to explain my view of things to the people who take it upon themselves to bully other players who arnt die-hard winners. Do I plan to get better? Eventually. But I'm not going to stress about it. Its just a game, And wargaming designed the game the way they did. there isnt much I can do. I can do my best to learn how to play her well, But I dont want to be picked on over and over in the process because I dont play well enough. I hope those who have encountered me can understand this, and to those who have picked on other players' stats because of their poor play. Now obviously this excludes Bots. I just hope my point has been made, and the.. hardcore players dont go all rage on me for this. I just want to make sure this is seen by at least some of the players that always want to win, Its not bad wanting to win. But picking on players' stats aint the solution. 

 

It's really, REALLY simple.  Normal game players play to win because WINNING is fun.  People who play to play are odd ducks.  How many times have you played volleyball and only wanted to see how long you could keep the ball in the air?  I remember playing with this sort of player before.  And quite honestly, I'm the person who would ignore them and always go for the winning shot or the spike, because games are meant to be played to be won.  And the fact of the matter is that if you tell your team that you're a "play for fun: type of player before a battle, they're gonna know ... KNOW ... that you're almost certainly going to be a detriment to the team's chances of winning, because you don't take playing to win seriously.

 

As for why pick on players for not doing well and having bad stats, it depends on the situation.  If they're here on the forum and they're trying to convince people to do something that most people feel is a bad idea, and it turns out that that person has bad stats, that person will probably take some heat.  I personally don't like calling out people for bad stats, but will do so if they're acting like a know it all when their stats prove that they know very little when it comes to this game.

 

As for the rest of your above post, you're doing a good job of hitting all the triggers that fire up serious players.  Play only for fun.  Don't care about winning.  It's just pixels.  It's just a game.  Honestly, saying any of those things gets me fired up and lets me know that you will be a boat anchor to the team's chances of winning. 

 

 

 

 

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Those stats.....

 

Always have a check at those guys that boast about their stats, then go solo tab and check their win rate again. Always a good laugh.

 

Now, when someone "takes lead" of the team and impose a terrible strat, it might be good to remind everyone that following someone with a 30% WR might not be the best option available.

 

But I agree with you and you should not be bothered about it. Everyone makes mistakes too. It is just a bit upsetting when a hard fought battle ends with the Montana you have smocked all game suddenly broadsides and gets deleted.

 

personally I don't really care whether we win or lose, as long as it was a good game (yes the reds have the right to play well too). But losing crappy games because :izmena:  or because of :child: is not going to make my day. Not to mention the :sleep_fish:

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Mathewprime, I'm going to explain this to you in the best way possible.

 

This isn't a game to many of us the way you think it's a game. This is a game to us in the way a sport is to an athlete. There is a reason why matchmaking based games are called E-Sports. There isn't any other way to explain it. If you never played a sport to win, you don't get that drive many of the rest of us have. 

 

I personally played Baseball, Football, Hockey, and did competitive track. Winning to many of us is about putting forth your best effort and trying to achieve the best you can. When we see people say "I play for fun" it tells us you're that kid that doesn't put forth their best effort, attempt to improve and work on their game. All matchmaking based games are competitive. This goes for the following;

 

League of Legends

DoTA

DoTA2

Overwatch

World of Tanks

War Thunder

(Insert every FPS game to date)

 

These are competitive games. People will always be like this so long as it has a competitive aspect to it.

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I dont care much for winning as long as I have fun

 

God damn it, OP, you almost had me.

 

DoTA

 

Dota does not have a matchmaking system.

Edited by m373x

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God damn it, OP, you almost had me.

 

 

Dota does not have a matchmaking system.

 

yes, but DotA and DotA2 are both competitive games hence why they are in that list.

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yes, but DotA and DotA2 are both competitive games hence why they are in that list.

 

I wish WoWs tried to be a competitive game.

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The whole 'stats' thing is from younger people. It basically has to be. If you've played games in the past with persistent stats, and where those persistent stats became a 'focus' of rank or prestige of some sort, you would have learned what a waste of time chasing that dragon is. For example, I aimed and went for elite tier stats in BF2 (the original one), I was ranked in a number of stats in the top 100 worldwide, including K/D and W/R. And you know what? It was a *complete* waste of time. Instead of just enjoying the game, the over focus on those stats made me play the stat, not the game. And what's worse, those stats are gone now, as the servers have been shut down. All that work, literally 1000's of hours, gone. And I know I'm not the only one to have that happen to them. It teaches you to consider how long that game will exist and how worth aiming for things like stats are.

 

Those that choose to continue that folly, basically have to be a younger/more inexperienced gamer, as they haven't learned this lesson first hand.

 

I hate yo be the one to tell you this, but some day you're going to die and everything you've done will be "wiped" from your server. 

 

Seeing as we are all going to eventually die I'm going to stop going to work, stop paying my bills, stop caring and just -live-, regardless of how it effects others....

 

I don't play for stats but I still want to do well and win. Others could make an effort to do the same.

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The whole 'stats' thing is from younger people. It basically has to be. If you've played games in the past with persistent stats, and where those persistent stats became a 'focus' of rank or prestige of some sort, you would have learned what a waste of time chasing that dragon is. For example, I aimed and went for elite tier stats in BF2 (the original one), I was ranked in a number of stats in the top 100 worldwide, including K/D and W/R. And you know what? It was a *complete* waste of time. Instead of just enjoying the game, the over focus on those stats made me play the stat, not the game. And what's worse, those stats are gone now, as the servers have been shut down. All that work, literally 1000's of hours, gone. And I know I'm not the only one to have that happen to them. It teaches you to consider how long that game will exist and how worth aiming for things like stats are.

 

Those that choose to continue that folly, basically have to be a younger/more inexperienced gamer, as they haven't learned this lesson first hand.

 

54 years old this year and I LOVE the stats, so either I'm an outlier or your hypothesis is not correct.

 

I find that people who don't understand why the stats matter to some people really go out of their way to come up with some negative personal characteristics to explain it: We're cheaters, we're shallow, we're mean. And now we're young and foolish. 

 

How about: When I do things, I like to do them well? Is that not a thing on your planet?

 

Why not separate the stats from the behavior the OP is talking about. Stat shaming is a horrible thing to do. End of story. Leave the rest out of it.

Edited by DingBat
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The current status quo imo is fine. However, if XVM or something similar comes to WoWS, then I will most definitely be protesting. 

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Tbvh, in almost 12k battles I see very little stat shaming. In the few games I have seen it, I can say it usually happens when a, I hate to say this, bad player makes a bad decision and then goes on a rage in chat. Some better player then may call out the rager. But there is a very small group of players who are very good at the game that just like to stat shame, but imo, that is a very small group.

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The whole 'stats' thing is from younger people. It basically has to be. If you've played games in the past with persistent stats, and where those persistent stats became a 'focus' of rank or prestige of some sort, you would have learned what a waste of time chasing that dragon is. For example, I aimed and went for elite tier stats in BF2 (the original one), I was ranked in a number of stats in the top 100 worldwide, including K/D and W/R. And you know what? It was a *complete* waste of time. Instead of just enjoying the game, the over focus on those stats made me play the stat, not the game. And what's worse, those stats are gone now, as the servers have been shut down. All that work, literally 1000's of hours, gone. And I know I'm not the only one to have that happen to them. It teaches you to consider how long that game will exist and how worth aiming for things like stats are.

 

Those that choose to continue that folly, basically have to be a younger/more inexperienced gamer, as they haven't learned this lesson first hand.

 

Really? And what do you consider a "younger" gamer? I'm pushing 50 and I still care about stats. I play the game to have fun, and losing is not fun for me. I don't really care about K/D ratio or WTR necessarily, but good game play brings good K/D, good damage and good WTR (usually).

 

I've been playing video games since the late 70s (with the Atari 2600 although I didn't start 'PC' games until the mid 80s with my first PC). I wouldn't call myself an "inexperienced gamer". Some people just enjoy the grind of a game, and the statistics related to that. Regardless of how long a game will be around.

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Tbvh, in almost 12k battles I see very little stat shaming. In the few games I have seen it, I can say it usually happens when a, I hate to say this, bad player makes a bad decision and then goes on a rage in chat. Some better player then may call out the rager. But there is a very small group of players who are very good at the game that just like to stat shame, but imo, that is a very small group.

 

Usually this. 

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Mathewprime, I'm going to explain this to you in the best way possible.

 

This isn't a game to many of us the way you think it's a game. This is a game to us in the way a sport is to an athlete. There is a reason why matchmaking based games are called E-Sports. There isn't any other way to explain it. If you never played a sport to win, you don't get that drive many of the rest of us have. 

 

I personally played Baseball, Football, Hockey, and did competitive track. Winning to many of us is about putting forth your best effort and trying to achieve the best you can. When we see people say "I play for fun" it tells us you're that kid that doesn't put forth their best effort, attempt to improve and work on their game. All matchmaking based games are competitive. This goes for the following;

 

 

Thanks. That is an excellent explanation. 

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Honestly I only use the stats to compare myself, to myself.  The problem I have with the W/L is there are so many variables I cannot control.  So I don't get as worked up about that as others do.

But people love stats, in sports to politics you'll see it.

The real problem stems, from what I see, comes from a certain group of the stat elites.  These people who think the stats mean everything cannot comprehend how stats don't matter to someone else.  So they attack that person.

I recognize everyone has a different set of skills, its a game for people to have fun.  A person with bad skills can still have fun and should not be stat shamed.  That's a poor sport doing that.  Then again, some people just can't help being an ***.


 

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I'm curious OP, what do you mean by fun? If I was constantly losing battles and basically doing nothing in them to contribute to my team, that would not be fun.

 

I like doing 100k damage and 3 kills. I like an awesome torpedo dodge or pulling out a last minute win. I like when I am able to reset our cap because we will win the game. I like putting citadels on an enemy ship or a broadside of torpedoes. In fact, it's quite a head rush of adrenaline.

 

That to me is fun. Not fun is dying early having not contributed. Not fun is taking easily avoided torpedoes. Not fun is having a teammate ignore his entire team in such a  way that we lose the hard-fought battle. Not fun is having all your teammates die and you're left alone. Not fun is YOLOing into the enemy and being focus killed.

 

No where in this post do I mention stats. Stats are just the reflection of how well a player performs. A 55%WR player is going to be a much more enjoyable teammate than a 45%WR player - on average - just because we're a team and I want us to win. The 55%WR player better understands game mechanics, aiming, strategy, and what those big red circles in the water mean.

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Statistics exist because they exist. They are a means of recording minutiae. They are recorded by WarGaming as a means of determining what happens, at what frequency, in the game. They are used as an aid in making decisions when changes to the game are being considered. While they won't tell what is fun, they do tell what is done.

 

Statistics are provided to players, because players have asked for them. They can provide usefull feedback to the player. Some players use them to improve. Most ignore them.

[note: the introduction of a new paragraph, set off with a blank line, indicates a new topic to the reader.]

 

Some players will use other peoples statistics for a variety of reasons, most of which are inappropriate. These include:

  • Making decisions on whom they may or may not support.
  • Predicting the outcome of the battle, and if they will abandon their team to pursue more rewarding endeavors.
  • Explaining the reason their own team has lost. (Funny they never feel the need to explain a win, when they win all credit is due to them.)
  • Denigrating their fellow team mates.
  • Justifying their sense of self worth.

 

Statistics can be made private through a selection on the players statistics page. While this may annoy some curious people, who feel the need to know all about other people, and will lead to speculation, (never let the absence of facts stand in the way of an opinion), it won't make them unavailable to WarGaming, or to the player.

 

 


To provide an example of the power of the use of paragraphs, and white space, allow me to provide the above missive without the benefits of paragraphs.  There is no new content here, just an adjustment of the formatting. You be the judge which style better gets the information to the reader.

 

Statistics exist because they exist. They are a means of recording minutiae. They are recorded by WarGaming as a means of determining what happens, at what frequency, in the game. They are used as an aid in making decisions when changes to the game are being considered. While they won't tell what is fun, they do tell what is done. Statistics are provided to players, because players have asked for them. They can provide usefull feedback to the player. Some players use them to improve. Most ignore them. Some players will use other peoples statistics for a variety of reasons, most of which are inappropriate. These include: Making decisions on whom they may or may not support. Predicting the outcome of the battle, and if they will abandon their team to pursue more rewarding endeavors. Explaining the reason their own team has lost. (Funny they never feel the need to explain a win, when they win all credit is due to them.) Denigrating their fellow team mates. Justifying their sense of self worth. Statistics can be made private through a selection on the players statistics page. While this may annoy some curious people, who feel the need to know all about other people, and will lead to speculation, (never let the absence of facts stand in the way of an opinion), it won't make them unavailable to WarGaming, or to the player.

Edited by Quaffer
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