Just say you're sorry...

[_ENO_]

Had some great success flushing a DD out of our cap in a standard battle last night, working with a div mate. DD was in smoke and using RPF- alternating detection between me and the div mate both within about 5km. Long story short I held behind a small island alternating detection with my div mate- the DD fired his torps at me but missed then I charged. As I came out I detected the DD with sonar and killed it- then got hit by a torp fired from behind me by a "friendly"  French cruiser. I died. 

 

I was flabbergasted and admittedly said "are you [edited]kidding me?" And the response was "sorry, but you should have looked." Followed eventually by "crap happens bro."

 

This, of course, left me seething a bit- we ended up winning which helped but seriously all I'd hoped for was an "sorry that was my bad."

 

Is it unrealistic to expect people to just take ownership of a mistake in a game? To say sorry without conditions?

 

/rant 

 

[SullyQuindarius]

Some people are jerks. That's life.

[1SneakyDevil]

Had something similar happen a few nights ago. 

[Raptor_alcor]

You ran into one of the inbred idiots that somehow believes that they can do no wrong. They only exist because humanity doesn't allow the weak links to die off. 

[Wulfgarn]

I agree, you apologize when you hit someone regardless of the situation.

 

I've turned pink 1x and that Captain actually gave me 1 karma because of my apology. 

[Battleship_Constitution]

crap happens, lern to look.

[VTAdmiral]

To be fair, allied torpedoes are visible to you the second they leave your launcher.

 

It's his fault for firing when a friendly was in his line of fire, but it's also your fault for succumbing to tunnel vision and ignoring your surroundings.

 

Most TK incidents boil down to "I didn't pay attention to what I was shooting at" and shooting torpedoes at an enemy while an ally is nearby... in addition to "I didn't pay attention to what was going on around me" and steering into friendly torpedoes that have been visible for up to a minute.

 

Nobody is blameless in TK incidents unless it's flagrant trolling like the Wallet Warrior Killer back in CBT.

[HMCS_Devilfish]

We all at one time or another make a mistake, I say sorry , my bad , there is just not a lot of time to go into detail about why you did what you did in chat , what I do if its bad is private message an apology and explination,, I got torped a month ago ... nothing not even an apoligy, they just ignored me, a few weeks ago it happened again 2 torps hit me , I survived and again no apology so this time I private messaged them , the response .. no speak englay but he understood because the profanity was in spanish ... I googled it

[Capt_Binkley]

What drives me nuts are the ones who insist they are not responsible at all and it's entirely your fault for sailing into their torpedos.  Got sunk by one of those twits a couple days ago.  Had one torp me twice about 90 secs apart in the same game.  Absolute menace.

[TheKrimzonDemon]

Had some great success flushing a DD out of our cap in a standard battle last night, working with a div mate. DD was in smoke and using RPF- alternating detection between me and the div mate both within about 5km. Long story short I held behind a small island alternating detection with my div mate- the DD fired his torps at me but missed then I charged. As I came out I detected the DD with sonar and killed it- then got hit by a torp fired from behind me by a "friendly"  French cruiser. I died. 

 

I was flabbergasted and admittedly said "are you [edited]kidding me?" And the response was "sorry, but you should have looked." Followed eventually by "crap happens bro."

 

This, of course, left me seething a bit- we ended up winning which helped but seriously all I'd hoped for was an "sorry that was my bad."

 

Is it unrealistic to expect people to just take ownership of a mistake in a game? To say sorry without conditions?

 

/rant 

 

 

Welcome to the new generation o gaming, where everything that happens is obviously the fault of someone else.

[_ENO_]

Yeah I suppose it's just the way it is. My expectations are pretty low- a sorry would cut it. I'd been playing cat and mouse with this DD for a few minutes and admittedly didn't know any more of our ships were even nearby. Anyway it's a shame that people can't even take ownership of their actions in a game- the easiest place ever to admit doing wrong. 

[LabradorRetriever]

To be fair, allied torpedoes are visible to you the second they leave your launcher.

 

It's his fault for firing when a friendly was in his line of fire, but it's also your fault for succumbing to tunnel vision and ignoring your surroundings.

 

Most TK incidents boil down to "I didn't pay attention to what I was shooting at" and shooting torpedoes at an enemy while an ally is nearby... in addition to "I didn't pay attention to what was going on around me" and steering into friendly torpedoes that have been visible for up to a minute.

 

Nobody is blameless in TK incidents unless it's flagrant trolling like the Wallet Warrior Killer back in CBT.

 

You've mentioned both sides and why they are each responsible for their surroundings.   But I disagree overall because these type of situations only occur when an ally behind is torping toward friendlies and enemies ahead in the front line.  And I think this is what the OP started the discussion about.

 

I see it as ridiculous for a ship to be torped from behind by any teammate.  If you are torping in such a way,  you have to be sure that no friendlies can sail into that path. Or communicate with them and be 100% sure they've acknowledged the firing trajectory.  

 

I can only raise fault with the torping ship because first off, your ally would be in a front line position between you and the enemy.  That ally has a dirty, unforgiving job whether he intended it or not.  He is closer and will be a likely target focused by the enemy.  He may be supporting the team and trying to affect a push or defense.  Of course he is in greater danger in that position, but someone has to do it. Unless this game turns into World of SnipeShips or you want to deter players from working towards objectives/teamplay even more.

 

So looking back into the basic issue, the problem is where the torpedoes are fired or if they should've been fired at all.  And I say it doesn't matter if the front line ally notices the exact moment the teammate launches their torps.  Whether BB, CA, or DD, he may not be able to slow or stop in time.  He may be put in a situation where he eats the friendly torps or can engage a hard turn to avoid.  

 

But the possibility is there that dodging the torpedoes could turn the situation worse.  The friendly captain could be very experienced and tactically sound.  Has great situational awareness and has planned a push or defense based on the enemy/ally positions and islands, cover, etc. This player has done everything right to affect the game positively for his team,  but now faces friendly torps from behind and has to decide whether to eat those torps or make a hard turn to avoid them.  But he is in an angled position manoeuvring through the push and deviating from that to avoid the torps would now slow him down to a sitting duck(for instance a BB).  Also now broadside to the enemy whether it be 1,2,3,4 or more enemies(should prob just eat the friendly torps at this point).  We don't need to bring in the argument about whether the opposing forces are just dds, cruisers or a mix.

        

Because you should NEVER put a teammate in that type of situation at all.  If there is a possibility of team damage and crippling a friendly warship, DON'T FIRE!  And let's look at the other situation where the friendly has a whole minute to make a decision and change course and is in no danger of being torped...  You may have stalled or stopped an offensive team push or defense of a flank.(here's some RNG for you,  ruined a match for 1 player or the other 10 as well) 

 

100% the fault of torpedo launching friendly.   This is the only way I feel about it.  If I am missing something or not being fair,  please let me know.

[Philisophia]

This behavior isn't surprising to me at all. The general attitude in this country, especially in the teen and early 20's crowd, is entitlement, selfishness, and a general attitude of indifference.  Unfortunately, it seems this attitude is creeping up into the older crowd too. **** I hate it. It's an embarrassment. The internet just makes the phenomenon worse by providing anonymity. 

 

****

 

TLDR - I'm not surprised.

 

EDIT - I just wanted to say that I by no means think that ALL young people or any other group of Americans are this way; just that I recognize a general trend.

 

-Z2Sixty

 

Moderated by Mezurashi.

[Nukelavee45]

 

You've mentioned both sides and why they are each responsible for their surroundings.   But I disagree overall because these type of situations only occur when an ally behind is torping toward friendlies and enemies ahead in the front line.  And I think this is what the OP started the discussion about.

 

I see it as ridiculous for a ship to be torped from behind by any teammate.  If you are torping in such a way,  you have to be sure that no friendlies can sail into that path. Or communicate with them and be 100% sure they've acknowledged the firing trajectory.  

 

I can only raise fault with the torping ship because first off, your ally would be in a front line position between you and the enemy.  That ally has a dirty, unforgiving job whether he intended it or not.  He is closer and will be a likely target focused by the enemy.  He may be supporting the team and trying to affect a push or defense.  Of course he is in greater danger in that position, but someone has to do it. Unless this game turns into World of SnipeShips or you want to deter players from working towards objectives/teamplay even more.

 

So looking back into the basic issue, the problem is where the torpedoes are fired or if they should've been fired at all.  And I say it doesn't matter if the front line ally notices the exact moment the teammate launches their torps.  Whether BB, CA, or DD, he may not be able to slow or stop in time.  He may be put in a situation where he eats the friendly torps or can engage a hard turn to avoid.  

 

But the possibility is there that dodging the torpedoes could turn the situation worse.  The friendly captain could be very experienced and tactically sound.  Has great situational awareness and has planned a push or defense based on the enemy/ally positions and islands, cover, etc. This player has done everything right to affect the game positively for his team,  but now faces friendly torps from behind and has to decide whether to eat those torps or make a hard turn to avoid them.  But he is in an angled position manoeuvring through the push and deviating from that to avoid the torps would now slow him down to a sitting duck(for instance a BB).  Also now broadside to the enemy whether it be 1,2,3,4 or more enemies(should prob just eat the friendly torps at this point).  We don't need to bring in the argument about whether the opposing forces are just dds, cruisers or a mix.

        

Because you should NEVER put a teammate in that type of situation at all.  If there is a possibility of team damage and crippling a friendly warship, DON'T FIRE!  And let's look at the other situation where the friendly has a whole minute to make a decision and change course and is in no danger of being torped...  You may have stalled or stopped an offensive team push or defense of a flank.(here's some RNG for you,  ruined a match for 1 player or the other 10 as well) 

 

100% the fault of torpedo launching friendly.   This is the only way I feel about it.  If I am missing something or not being fair,  please let me know.

Here's a scenario for you -  Your team mate is inserious danger of being taken out by a ship that you have a near certain chance to eliminate first with torps.  But - there's a small window of time to do it, and the friendly could possibly eat at least one torp depending on what he chooses to do in the next 5 seconds,and he's yelling for help.   Take the shot and risk team damage or TK,  or hold off and definitely lose a friendly capital ship?

 

I've had it go all the ways that could work out.  I've killed the red, saved the friendly, hit both, screwed it completely and sunk my ally... and I've been raged at for "not being any help at all" or "letting me die so you can get the kill" because I held off until I was certain I couldn't hit my ally (ie, I let the duel play out, and then took the shot).

 

I'm just saying, sometimes it's as hard to justify NOT taking a risky shot to a player, as it would be to justify why you risked hitting an ally.

[Jaynie]

Sadly everyone's situational awareness is not the same.   I have a good understanding of the red ships but those green ones sometimes disappear.  May be a form of focus caused color blindness.  The idea is to recognized who can do what prior to action and position according,  ie IJN CA  have torpedoes do not be between them and the red guys, very simple.  Yeah right.

[Raptor_alcor]

To be fair, allied torpedoes are visible to you the second they leave your launcher.

 

It's his fault for firing when a friendly was in his line of fire, but it's also your fault for succumbing to tunnel vision and ignoring your surroundings.

 

Most TK incidents boil down to "I didn't pay attention to what I was shooting at" and shooting torpedoes at an enemy while an ally is nearby... in addition to "I didn't pay attention to what was going on around me" and steering into friendly torpedoes that have been visible for up to a minute.

 

Nobody is blameless in TK incidents unless it's flagrant trolling like the Wallet Warrior Killer back in CBT.

 

This this and good lord THIS. THANK YOU, I'm so glad to have a destroyer player finally say what I've been saying for a long time. 

[DigitalRebel]

Ok ok.  I'M SORRY!   Jeez...  

[Palladia]

To be fair, allied torpedoes are visible to you the second they leave your launcher.

 

It's his fault for firing when a friendly was in his line of fire, but it's also your fault for succumbing to tunnel vision and ignoring your surroundings.

 

Most TK incidents boil down to "I didn't pay attention to what I was shooting at" and shooting torpedoes at an enemy while an ally is nearby... in addition to "I didn't pay attention to what was going on around me" and steering into friendly torpedoes that have been visible for up to a minute.

 

Nobody is blameless in TK incidents unless it's flagrant trolling like the Wallet Warrior Killer back in CBT.

 

Nope.  It is almost always 100% the fault of the person launching the torpedo's.  I'd say 100% but I've had situations where I launched torpedo's at a target just to see an ally swerve from a completely different vector into the path of my torpedo's.  Thing is,  I still apologized.  While he was sailing away from my torpedo's at the time and while I still sunk my target,  he was still in the potential area of effect so it was a risk that I,  as the person lauching the torps,  took.

 

You should never,  EVER have to worry about torpedo's coming from allies.  You should never have to be concerned that the blue at your back might suddenly launch a full school of fish into or even near your backside.  As the person launching your torps,  you know better then to put them in the water in any sort of vector that an ally might cross except on the very rare occasion that your ally is likely to die anyway and the risk outweighs the potential loss.

 

Even then I still suggest apologizing instead of blaming the person you hit.  It's just good manners.

[tcbaker777]

Ok ok.  I'M SORRY!   Jeez...  

 

im not feeling it, i think this is a half a$$ed apology and trust me, i know what half a$$ed apology's look and sound like, because ive both given them and have had them given to me

[Royeaux]

To be fair, allied torpedoes are visible to you the second they leave your launcher.

 

You would be surprised how often I've been hit by friendly torps from point blank range.  I'm in my Kamikaze R, as I sail by a friendly destroyer, BOOM, I'm dead. I had maybe 1-2 second warning.

[Jupitus]

Consider yourself lucky OP sometimes friendlies will torpedo you and then proceed to cuss you out in chat.

 

[Max_T]

i was up set last nite out side the game i hit a bb with a torp .got the enemy but did not see him comeing in on the left 9 km away .i got out torps a good bit before he was close and ping him on map and called out again. 1 hit him hurt him some but did not sink him i felt very bad about hitting a team mate. and told him i was very very sorry and i should have looked better it was all my fault. then in a bit good called every thing but a momys boy. o well i said did what could. he lived and we won the game but he cuz me few more times so some time sorry just dont work.i have been pink 2 times and had lost my temper..i play bbs most of the time but will grab grab a ca or dd here and there.again sorry to the guy i hit last nite. .

[CLUCH_CARGO]

in Pee Wee Hermans voice Deep Deep Tone SORRY  hee hee

[Raptor_alcor]

under 4km all friendly fire is effectively the fault of the person that launched the torps. Beyond that it becomes atleast PARTIALLY the one being hit's fault. People advocate being completely aware of your surroundings, friendly torps are partially your responsibility to watch out for because *gasp* YOU CAN'T CONTROL OTHERS. Once I put torps in the water on a target for example I'm hoping they hit the target, if I launch my 10 km atago torps at a target that's 8 km away from me and the target dies before they get there then oops, wild torps.  if someone then someone eats them at 9 km then it's partially their fault. I can't predict how far and where a friendly will go in the minute or so that the damn torps are in the water. 

[Neltak]

Most of the times I've been team torped they've clearly felt bad and apologized, so I tell them "crap happens". Sometimes they don't say anything so in order to avoid voicing my frustrations I simply type "..."

 

I'll never forget a game in my Hatsu. Enemy Fubuki smokes up ~5km in front of me as I smoke up an aggressive friendly Gneis who is under a lot of fire. Fubuki torps towards us both as I advance to torp & proxy spot the Fubuki. Gneis yells "Hatsu torps!!" and I think "yep I see them and they'll miss". All the sudden I'm sunk and realize the Gneis was talking about torps he launched. The situation was so bizarre I actually laughed at it, and he apologized as well.