CV Matchmaking

[Kebobs_]

I currently have both Lexington and Shokaku. It is becoming ever more apparent that I am way Overpowered against T6 ships I want to strike and powerless against most T10 ships. I think there will be far less sky cancer complaints if a T8 for example can only see T7-9. This would possibly increase wait time for CVs a little, but it would encourage more to play CV knowing that they won't be shut down by AA two tiers above them rendering them powerless. Let me know what y'all think!

[_Fantomex_]

Tier 9 and 10 CV's which already effectively have +1/-2 and +0/-2 MM would be "hurt" a little bit, as they would lose the ability to club lower tier opponents without gaining anything out of it, but overall I think CV's should definitely get restricted MM. 

[Volron]

One thing is for certain, they need to change it so a T5 CV should NEVER see a T6+.  Reason is simple, 5's cannot strafe/manual drop while 6+ can.

[BrushWolf]

CV's already wait for extended periods to get a match. This would only increase those periods. The class has never scaled well between tiers where for every other class any ship of any tier can damage and even sink any ship.

[madgiecool]

One thing is for certain, they need to change it so a T5 CV should NEVER see a T6+.  Reason is simple, 5's cannot strafe/manual drop while 6+ can.

 

For your example to work, there would have to be 4 CV's in a match.

 

While the tier 5 CV's will be at a disadvantage due to manuals, the teams will be balanced, as both teams will have a tier 5 and a tier 6.

 

IMHO - as long as the teams are balanced, who gives a flying firetruck that the tier 5 CV is seeing MM +1 (or 2)? 

[marcoest]

Madgiecool

  I have to disagree with you I have had 4 case of being in a T5 IJN CV going up against a T6 and have been decimated by strafing.  You cant avoid T6 planes to strike the other team and you cant attack them because the strafe you as you get close the man drop should be given back to all CV's

 

[BrushWolf]

Strafe was an ill thought out game function. It is effectively an I Win button as it wipes everything it hits.

[Kebobs_]

Strafe was an ill thought out game function. It is effectively an I Win button as it wipes everything it hits.

 

It is super strong for taking down squads, but easily recognizable by a good player and you can dodge your planes away. T5 CV should not see T6 or 7 though because of the manual change.

[Springheel_Jack]

They should either get rid of manual drops and strafing entirely or give it to all tiers.  The way it is now is ludicrous.

[Kebobs_]

They should either get rid of manual drops and strafing entirely or give it to all tiers.  The way it is now is ludicrous.

 

They can't take it away that is for sure, since it would kill off the remainder of CV playerbase. However, no manual at t4/5 makes them unplayable. They need to make auto drops for T4/5 better or give them manual and set maxes for commander points or something. Sure people used to seal club in CVs but this causes more problems than fixes as it is now. Kind of a tough situation I have to agree. I play Taiho and I can say I would NEVER play it without manual

 

[Troa_Barton]

I agree, this is why I liked to seal club in my langley as tier 4 MM is +1-1mm in a tier 4 cv you wont see tier 6 but in a tier 5 you can see tier 7.

I would have fun in my langley and warm up to grind in my lexington...

Because of people like me this led to them removing manual drop from tier 4/5 cvs because people were seal clubbing. The reason I was, was because it was more fun to play a CV with +1-1 mm. Playing a ranger against a division of iowas, or a baltimore was just painful and was an act of frustration if you had to be the one to deal with them.

Make this the case for all tiers and the seal clubbing issue would likely be irrelevant, they can then restore manual drops to tiers 4/5 because the MM would be fair across the board.

 

The argument that this would lengthen wait times I believe to be inaccurate as this would increase the amount of players actually playing cvs at tiers other than 4/7/9/10.

 

The other huge issue and one of the biggest reasons I stopped playing cvs besides the matchmaking is the economic nerf cvs got recently. In order to make a decent income you HAVE to hard carry, it has to be a long game with premium time and preferably a premium cv.

The effect on gameplay is detrimental as well, I have purposefully let teammates die in order to prolong the game and keep targets for myself in order to have a "good game" for myself. This should not be a concession I should make as a cv, I should be encouraged to win the game and help my teammates as effectively as possible not draw out the game for my benefit.

This also led to the seal clubbing issue at tiers 4/5 because it was far easier to meet that criteria of a "good game" at low tiers. The AA at those tiers excluding the cleveland was manageable the enemy cv was likely new meaning you could control the flow of a game, ending it when you felt that you had enough of a contribution to get enough of a reward.

 

I believe this issue with the matchmaking is half of the problem with cv population with the other half being economic. There is still the issue of balance between IJN and USN CV's but that's another topic all together.

[I_Am_DreadgeNought]

To be sure something needs done about CVs,  both in terms of making AA actually GOOD aside from the few ships that outright EAT planes,  vs being of no use at all.   ("fixing AA for both CVs and Others")

 

 

We need to do more perhaps to put CVs into "Fixed MM" games,  such they can ONLY be "Bottom Tier" units,

with a +2 MM system,  Defences more based on the ships 'at the top' and their attack power per the BBs at the bottom.

 

 

We also need to do more to make it pronounced to CVs to DO THEIR JOBS instead of just trying to Torp/Bomb things,

ie  SPOTTING TARGETS and Killing Planes to protect the team.

 

 

The amounts of pay for damage and the kinds of damage doable needs a few things done,  so you get paid FAR more for Utility work than simply for raw damage,  while making CVs far more not able to be attacked easy by other CVs.

 

Perhaps more can also be done to buff their 2nds,  along with like all ships having 1 or 2 base uses of Repairs.

[Taylor3006]

I don't care for the +2/-2 matchmaking for any class of ship. 

[Troa_Barton]

To be sure something needs done about CVs,  both in terms of making AA actually GOOD aside from the few ships that outright EAT planes,  vs being of no use at all.   ("fixing AA for both CVs and Others")

 

 

We need to do more perhaps to put CVs into "Fixed MM" games,  such they can ONLY be "Bottom Tier" units,

with a +2 MM system,  Defences more based on the ships 'at the top' and their attack power per the BBs at the bottom.

 

 

We also need to do more to make it pronounced to CVs to DO THEIR JOBS instead of just trying to Torp/Bomb things,

ie  SPOTTING TARGETS and Killing Planes to protect the team.

 

 

The amounts of pay for damage and the kinds of damage doable needs a few things done,  so you get paid FAR more for Utility work than simply for raw damage,  while making CVs far more not able to be attacked easy by other CVs.

 

Perhaps more can also be done to buff their 2nds,  along with like all ships having 1 or 2 base uses of Repairs.

 

I can agree that the AA on CV's is objectively poor, however I don't quite agree with the rest.

 

Placing CV's at the bottom in MM is going to completely kill CV games, people will not play CV's if they're bottom tier only. That is the one time Where I 100% agree with someone complaining that they're bottom tier. I agree that it would help in the attempt to balance them against AA but That is going to take a lot more fine tuning than I think Wargaming wants to do. Not to mention sometimes you get an enemy team consisting entirely of USN BBs / CAs how are you supposed to balance for that and keep AA feeling useful?

 

As far as forcing CVs to "DO THEIR JOB" this is the reason CV's took a huge hit in income and is one of the reason myself and others dislike playing them now. A CVs loadout is 2/3 direct damage dealers fighters / torpedo bombers / dive bombers. As such 2/3rds of their income and experience should come from dealing direct damage. I understand the frustration of a bad CV not spotting a lone dd when you need them to but that's the difference in experience. There already is an incentive to do so which would multiply their experience by 1.5X its called winning the game. Some CV's understand that and see the risk to that goal that a lone DD possesses and will scout it out. I disagree that the income and experience should be further weighted towards this due to the fact that sometimes the matchmaker creates teams with few if any dds. What is a CV supposed to do for income and experience then with a system weighted towards scouting and torp detection? Worse yet in encourages you to keep from destroying enemy dds so that you can farm more detection income and exp. Weighting it further in that direction actually encourages them to not outright kill an enemy dd.

 

A CV does not come equipped with scout planes, a CV cannot be everywhere at once, and not all CVs have the same level of experience. To top it all off they are usually getting yelled at by their team, demanding that they become someone's personal escort which could hurt the rest of the team.

 

Better secondaries? Sure why not?

Heals? Well maybe but to be honest I would much prefer the ability to refill plane reserves over a heal or even to just remove the mechanic of finite plane reserves entirely.

[Kebobs_]

To be honest they should just give ALL CVs defensive AA. T8 and up someone trying to bomb the enemy out of thr match will pay with failure and a lost strike force. For example, Essex and taiho get 94 AA rating with AFT and BFT. Combine that with some people taking MAA over CE and the defensive fire t8 and above get, you do not want to strike the enemy cv. T8 cv cannot deal with t10 AA. T6 cannot with T8. In between is better but in no situation should a t5 cv get a double cv match with t6 because they will literally be strafed to hell.

[Destin65]

On 4/28/2017 at 11:13 PM, Kebobstuzov said:

 

It is super strong for taking down squads, but easily recognizable by a good player and you can dodge your planes away. T5 CV should not see T6 or 7 though because of the manual change.

Ha! "Good player" has nothing to do with it. Noobs can see it come from 6 days in advance.

The problem is, which you don't mention because you don't even play the game, is that you cannot avoid it even knowing it is coming. Then when you try to pin down their fighters you get strafed repeatedly during the entanglement because the "I could only afford a $9.99 Programming-At-Home-Course" game developers cannot fix their own bugs they create.

You know, you really should play the game, get out there in the mix and see exactly what all of us CV drivers are talking about. Because it's obvious you have never played the game.

[Destin65]

They need to do something with CVs, badly. 

As it is, Evasive Maneuvers, Backseat Gunner, Air Superiority, Dogfighting Expert, those skills right there are as worthless to a CV driver as an AFK player is to a team. Completely, utterly, worthless. And with the CV "rework", it's even worse! So many of my commanders now are so screwed up with worthless skills that I will probably just dismiss them even though they have 12+ points. No point in blowing doubloons or elite xp to respec them. Would be better just to create a new one and not give Wargaming anymore money for the total garbage they put in front of us players like that.

Fix them and fix them right, or just remove them from the game.

[TexJapan]

On 4/27/2017 at 11:47 PM, Volron said:

One thing is for certain, they need to change it so a T5 CV should NEVER see a T6+.  Reason is simple, 5's cannot strafe/manual drop while 6+ can.

Very true.

 

On 4/27/2017 at 11:58 PM, BrushWolf said:

CV's already wait for extended periods to get a match. This would only increase those periods. The class has never scaled well between tiers where for every other class any ship of any tier can damage and even sink any ship.

Soooo true.

 

On 4/28/2017 at 1:33 PM, BrushWolf said:

Strafe was an ill thought out game function. It is effectively an I Win button as it wipes everything it hits.

Sooo not true.   While strafe can do a lot of damage, it still take timing and skill to bring out the most of it.   Without manual strafe and even bomb/torp drop manual, it would just be a pure point and click affair...no challenge, no fun  (look at the Graf Zeppelin).   For those that think CVs are easy, there is a reason there are so few in game...it take time and dedication to get good in them.

VR,

[TexJapan]

On 5/9/2017 at 10:29 PM, Troa_Barton said:

The other huge issue and one of the biggest reasons I stopped playing cvs besides the matchmaking is the economic nerf cvs got recently. In order to make a decent income you HAVE to hard carry, it has to be a long game with premium time and preferably a premium cv.

This part of Barton's post I agree.   Sometimes when you play for the team, the rewards are pitiful.  Example...T8 CV up tiered to a T10 match.   Attacking most ships means that your squadrons are destroyed, so you try to scout and perma spot enemy ships.   The end game, maybe you helped the team win by "team play" but your rewards at the end are very low.

vr,

 

[BrushWolf]

1 hour ago, TexJapan said:

Very true.

 

Soooo true.

 

Sooo not true.   While strafe can do a lot of damage, it still take timing and skill to bring out the most of it.   Without manual strafe and even bomb/torp drop manual, it would just be a pure point and click affair...no challenge, no fun  (look at the Graf Zeppelin).   For those that think CVs are easy, there is a reason there are so few in game...it take time and dedication to get good in them.

VR,

It doesn't matter how much skill is involved because it is an overpowered attack, it destroys pretty much everything in its path, that can be done multiple times before the fighters are out of ammo. If the ammo use was much higher and it only hit a single squadron I would be alright with it. Strafe is also a factor in the excessive amount of micromanaging required to do even moderately well with CV's

[TexJapan]

5 minutes ago, BrushWolf said:

It doesn't matter how much skill is involved because it is an overpowered attack, it destroys pretty much everything in its path, that can be done multiple times before the fighters are out of ammo. If the ammo use was much higher and it only hit a single squadron I would be alright with it. Strafe is also a factor in the excessive amount of micromanaging required to do even moderately well with CV's

  So, along with that logic then a BB that gives full salvo on a target and DevStrikes it, then that's overpowered.   A DD that torps a full health ship and DevStrikes it, that is overpowered.  All ships with unlimited ammo is overpowered.  Aiming, angling and positioning my ship to best use it in battle is "micromanaging"...etc.

  Look, I understand the CVs are a tuff ship to master, but wait until you get into T8+ CV and go into a match (see your highest is a T6 USN CV).   That Strafe will be your best friend.   Me personally, sometimes I can wipe the map against the other Team or CV...most times it's a tuff match, sometime I become the victim in a CV.  MM is a funny thing and players are either potatos, avg, or unicome...mix bag that adds to the challenge.

  Always from my point of view...It's the PLAYER that is OP...Not the Ship or mechanics.

 

VR

[BrushWolf]

On 4/28/2017 at 10:13 PM, Kebobstuzov said:

 

It is super strong for taking down squads, but easily recognizable by a good player and you can dodge your planes away. T5 CV should not see T6 or 7 though because of the manual change.

Strafe increased the micromanaging in a ship type that already had an excessive amount of micromanaging.

[cometguy]

2 hours ago, Destin65 said:

. . . Air Superiority, Dogfighting Expert, those skills right there are as worthless to a CV driver as an AFK player is to a team. Completely, utterly, worthless. 

Assuming you mean air supremecy, since you're talking about captain skills. And literally every CV captain I have has both of those skills, and the only reason I wouldn't have them is if my captain doesn't yet have 11 points.

Also, is it 2017 already?