German AP is garbage

[_James_T_Kirk]

It's like the case of Emperor's New Clothes, everyone salivates at German AP, it's actually even worse than HE. Unless enemy ship is perpendicular to your guns (no more deviation than may be 10 degrees), forget about any significant amount damage. In fact, even in the above case, I would rather have RU or US guns then German ones; not to mention British ones which do steady amount of damage. For a nation that specializes in AP it's strange how bad they are. (Do I even need to mention their battleships?)

[Unabletony]

Is this the German version of that one IJN whiner..?

Another game:

German AP really sucks, does it?

[RivertheRoyal]

First, I would like to throw my head back and laugh heartily.

 

Second, I would like to know—have you worked off the pink yet?  

[GhostSwordsman]

Tell that to the Budyonny that I quad-citadel-ed in Hipper and subsequently sunk earlier today...

 

 

 

 

Edit:

 

 

[_Fantomex_]

The German AP has high damage at the expense of bad penetration angles. If you want lolpen AP, play USN. 

 

The AP is effective, you just have to be in the right position to use it.

[chs4000]

The German AP has high damage at the expense of bad penetration angles. If you want lolpen AP, play USN. 

 

The AP is effective, you just have to be in the right position to use it.

 

That's exactly what the OP said. 

[_James_T_Kirk]

The German AP has high damage at the expense of bad penetration angles. If you want lolpen AP, play USN. 

 

The AP is effective, you just have to be in the right position to use it.

 

 

Is USN really good against angled targets? I'm thinking about buying New Orleans, I need 3000 freexp

 

First, I would like to throw my head back and laugh heartily.

 

Second, I would like to know—have you worked off the pink

 

Yeah

 

 

Rest of you guys are posting good results, but I'm not asking for results. I can put up 100 000 damage games too. The problem is, say Baltimore/ Moskva/ DesMoines/Zao are angled and burning your down plus doing good HE damage. Your AP doesn't work, HE doesn't work. Now what?

[GhostSwordsman]

 

Rest of you guys are posting good results, but I'm not asking for results. I can put up 100 000 damage games too. The problem is, say Baltimore/ Moskva/ DesMoines/Zao are angled and burning your down plus doing good HE damage. Your AP doesn't work, HE doesn't work. Now what?

 

Why are you fighting an angled ship that you can't reliably damage alone? That would be my question.

[MrDeaf]

why, what's wrong with using HE with DE?

[tcbaker777]

It's like the case of Emperor's New Clothes, everyone salivates at German AP, it's actually even worse than HE. Unless enemy ship is perpendicular to your guns (no more deviation than may be 10 degrees), forget about any significant amount damage. In fact, even in the above case, I would rather have RU or US guns then German ones; not to mention British ones which do steady amount of damage. For a nation that specializes in AP it's strange how bad they are. (Do I even need to mention their battleships?)

 

my Graf Spee and Nurnberg would like a word with your post, especially my Graf Spee which has been averaging at least 1000 damage per salvo so far for the past few days and dont even try  to start on if the bbs are bad, the only bad thing i see about German bbs is that dispersion, thats why they're great for brawling

[RivertheRoyal]

 

Rest of you guys are posting good results, but I'm not asking for results. I can put up 100 000 damage games too. The problem is, say Baltimore/ Moskva/ DesMoines/Zao are angled and burning your down plus doing good HE damage. Your AP doesn't work, HE doesn't work. Now what?

 

See, your issue is that German cruisers are cruiser killers. When they were first introduced, everyone was saying "go after the enemy cruisers, it's what you're really good at." However, there are a lot of battleships in game right now—and fewer cruisers than WG anticipated, I think.

German cruisers aren't all that good going up against angled battleships.

There's a caveat though, and one that you mentioned, at that.

 

German AP is incredibly awesome against broadside targets. You can easily do 8k in a salvo, and then hit for another 8k one reload later. But, again, this is dependent on the enemy ship being broadside.

 

Then, the trick with German cruisers is in positioning, and opening up the opportunity to shoot at as many broadside targets are you possibly can.

This is why that line is known to be a favorite among more skilled players—since it's all about planning ahead and making your own opportunities.

 

Personally, I only have a Prinz Eugen. But I fully plan on going down the full German cruiser line at some point, since my experiences with the Prinz have been so damn good.

Anyway, the line really isn't for everyone.

 

 

(P.S, you can use the HE against angled targets anyway. Fire damage FTW.)       

[K538]

Yeah German AP is trash.

 

 

If I hadn't gotten that 27k damage from my secondaries that game would have been a complete waste of time.

 

 

 

It's the whole reason for that loss.

[tcbaker777]

Yeah German AP is trash.

 

 

If I hadn't gotten that 27k damage from my secondaries that game would have been a complete waste of time.

 

 

 

It's the whole reason for that loss.

 

cant tell if sarcastic or not

[RivertheRoyal]

 

cant tell if sarcastic or not

 

I can. 

[_James_T_Kirk]

why, what's wrong with using HE with DE?

 

I mean you can , it's just no nearly as good as other nations', so you are at a severe disadvantage against cruisers. For example, today I was in Hindenburg and went against Zao at around 15km. One shot, 2 fires. I had no choice, but to repair, as I already had 1/2 health. He then set me on 2 more fires and that was that. My AP was useless. Switched to HE and did symbolic damage with no fires. Totally outclassed.

 

my Graf Spee and Nurnberg would like a word with your post, especially my Graf Spee which has been averaging at least 1000 damage per salvo so far for the past few days and dont even try  to start on if the bbs are bad, the only bad thing i see about German bbs is that dispersion, thats why they're great for brawling

 

Well, I have similar guns on Scharnhorst, so I believe you about Graf Spee. But the regular cruisers are a different story.

 

What are you smoking OP seriously what are you trying to sit at the back of the map and Snipe ships from a distance???  L M F A O if you are really trying to do this WRONG SHIP CLASS to be doing that in.

 

No, I try to close in whenever possible. Even at close range AP is pretty bad, and everyone knows to angle at higher tiers.

 

 

Why are you fighting an angled ship that you can't reliably damage alone? That would be my question.

 

Everyone is angled most of the time, no one will give you broadside unless they are forced to.

[_James_T_Kirk]

Yeah German AP is trash.

 

 

If I hadn't gotten that 27k damage from my secondaries that game would have been a complete waste of time.

 

 

 

It's the whole reason for that loss.

 

I'm not really impressed by this. I get similar results in Tirpitz, I do about 2k damage per shot as well. Imagine if you got 53 hits in a Carolina or Amagi? You would be pushing 200 000 damage. It should also be noted that you delted Pensacola and weakly armored Amagi which improved your results quite a bit. Look at your damage on Warspite, only 12k.

[GhostSwordsman]

Everyone is angled most of the time, no one will give you broadside unless they are forced to.

 

So then, put yourself in a position where the enemy has to choose between giving you broadside, or giving your allies broadside. Or put yourself in a position where they don't have a choice at all.

 

River already said it, German ships(cruisers) are all about positioning. Make your own opportunities to do damage with AP.

[_James_T_Kirk]

 

See, your issue is that German cruisers are cruiser killers. When they were first introduced, everyone was saying "go after the enemy cruisers, it's what you're really good at." However, there are a lot of battleships in game right now—and fewer cruisers than WG anticipated, I think.

German cruisers aren't all that good going up against angled battleships.

There's a caveat though, and one that you mentioned, at that.

 

German AP is incredibly awesome against broadside targets. You can easily do 8k in a salvo, and then hit for another 8k one reload later. But, again, this is dependent on the enemy ship being broadside.

 

Then, the trick with German cruisers is in positioning, and opening up the opportunity to shoot at as many broadside targets are you possibly can.

This is why that line is known to be a favorite among more skilled players—since it's all about planning ahead and making your own opportunities.

 

Personally, I only have a Prinz Eugen. But I fully plan on going down the full German cruiser line at some point, since my experiences with the Prinz have been so damn good.

Anyway, the line really isn't for everyone.

 

 

(P.S, you can use the HE against angled targets anyway. Fire damage FTW.)       

 

Yeah may be I just have to get more skilled with positioning. The most frustrating thing is what I mentioned about the angle. Even a slight angle will cause you to go from 10 000 per salvo to only 500 damage on battleships. A severe angle will result in 0 damage. But fighting battleships is not as much an issue as fighting other cruisers is.

[ckupf]

German AP on cruisers and DDs has excellent alpha, but meh pen. This allows you to do good damage without getting many citadels. 10k volleys on BBs are all too common in my Hindy. Tell me that's worse than the 3k from the HE? DDs can also get good damage. And cruisers at close range you absolutely melt. Sure you can't citadel Yamatos and Montanas at 8km like the Moskva, or even 5km like the Zao and DM. But you will get the occasional Amagi cit, and overall get amazing DPM. You do more alpha than either the Zao or Moskva and fire more guns per minute than either. Decent trajectories mean that it's still effective at range, and the meh penetration means that AP works decently well against angled DDs. I've gotten one or two devastating strikes on t8 dds. 

 

And in situations where HE makes sense, it's a lot better than it used to be (2500/13% fire versus the old 2300/11% fire).

 

Their battle ships excel at close range where they have enough pen to citadel enemy BBs while not taking any citadels themselves. The armor style is effective to say the least (although it results in fewer overpens). The accuracy can be painful, but the German AP has almost never failed me. Occasionally a bow in BB will require HE, but even against DDs you should be using AP because of your relative alpha.

[Stauffenberg44]

Two words: Grosser Kurfürst

 

[HazeGrayUnderway]

Two words: Grosser Kurfürst

 

Well, this *IS* in the Cruiser subforum.

 

And German AP is mediocre to me.  The higher damage value is offset by the shells' tendency to bounce and non-pen with ease.

 

USN Cruiser AP, as a line, is a much more solid performer while still retaining decent HE performance in their shell selection.

 

What I do like however is the shell arcs and velocities of German Cruiser shells.  USN ones tend to get floaty.

[reefhawg]

Played properly the German cruisers are awesome.  I didn't really get this until the Roon and Hindy,.. now I get it.  Amazing.

 

[renegadestatuz]

 

Yeah may be I just have to get more skilled with positioning. The most frustrating thing is what I mentioned about the angle. Even a slight angle will cause you to go from 10 000 per salvo to only 500 damage on battleships. A severe angle will result in 0 damage. But fighting battleships is not as much an issue as fighting other cruisers is.

When this starts to happen, just start pumping the AP into the superstructure and you'll still see good damage rolls. Also, Hindy is tanky and a dpm monster. Try to force the engagement into your favor and close the distance when you can on the cruiser and it'll lead to better results. If they decide they want to kite away and disengage, then move on to another target instead of trying to fight them from range. Hindy is a brawler, and you want to take advantage of that. Get close in and you'll see those high damage salvos pop up more and you'll tear them to shreds.

[1nv4d3rZ1m]

 

Is USN really good against angled targets? I'm thinking about buying New Orleans, I need 3000 freexp

 

Yeah

 

Rest of you guys are posting good results, but I'm not asking for results. I can put up 100 000 damage games too. The problem is, say Baltimore/ Moskva/ DesMoines/Zao are angled and burning your down plus doing good HE damage. Your AP doesn't work, HE doesn't work. Now what?

 

Against a Balti or DM stay at range or torp them, their shells are slower and they will have a harder time if you are playing hard to get at range. The Balti and DM are mid range brawlers they prefer to engage just outside torp range so engage at either longer or closer ranges and you will win.  Against angled targets try and start fires as well, the HE damage is pretty lame but the fire starting potential is pretty decent given the rof at least on the Roon and Hindi. But really the KM CAs hunt broadside ships to put massive amounts of damage into, even broadside BBs can lose a ton of HP very quickly to one given the chance. They have the highest AP alpha damage of cruisers and the downside is that its more difficult to use. 

[ReddNekk]

What are you smoking OP seriously what are you trying to sit at the back of the map and Snipe ships from a distance???  L M F A O if you are really trying to do this WRONG SHIP CLASS to be doing that in.

 

If you wanna do some long range sharpshooting with Cruisers, the French CLs will put a  on your face.