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Jakajan

Loved the Z-46, Still learning the Z-52. Any pointers?

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So the Z-46 was an excellent hybrid torpedo boat. I loved the rear firing guns, it reminded me of a IJN DD with good guns, speed, sturdy 23k hit points, excellent torpedo reload and hydro. Really felt like a super ship for its tier. I managed a 60% win rate in her, which for potato me is super for any T9.

 

So now I have the Z-52 and it may be my imagination but radar seems like a larger issue and of course I can not smack down the occasional tier 7 destroyer which may be impacting my performance. Torpedoes seem and feel the same ish and the guns seem weaker to me because I favor running away tactics. The hydro has an awesome 5.8km range but feels like it only gives me a relevant advantage against Z-46? Still trying to learn how to maximize this.

 

I do not like the reduced turning radius or slightly weaker concealment. It's almost as if the Z-52 gives up a lot of what makes th z-46 great for the 1km better hydro.

 

That said it is still competitive and I do not have the better torps yet, those are coming today.

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So the Z-46 was an excellent hybrid torpedo boat. I loved the rear firing guns, it reminded me of a IJN DD with good guns, speed, sturdy 23k hit points, excellent torpedo reload and hydro. Really felt like a super ship for its tier. I managed a 60% win rate in her, which for potato me is super for any T9.

 

So now I have the Z-52 and it may be my imagination but radar seems like a larger issue and of course I can not smack down the occasional tier 7 destroyer which may be impacting my performance. Torpedoes seem and feel the same ish and the guns seem weaker to me because I favor running away tactics. The hydro has an awesome 5.8km range but feels like it only gives me a relevant advantage against Z-46? Still trying to learn how to maximize this.

 

I do not like the reduced turning radius or slightly weaker concealment. It's almost as if the Z-52 gives up a lot of what makes th z-46 great for the 1km better hydro.

 

That said it is still competitive and I do not have the better torps yet, those are coming today.

 

talk with Lert.... he likes these DDs more than most I see here...

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talk with Lert.... he likes these DDs more than most I see here...

 

I do, but I haven't looked into the Z-52 as much as I should have. She's sat in my port for more than a week now, but I haven't even driven her once. That, and I'm mediocre at DDs to begin with.

 

I'm afraid I can't really help OP.

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 Z52 is a great boat. I am by no means excellent in her, I have games that are outstanding then I have games where I fail miserably. You can play her almost like the Z46. Her conceal is a little worse than Z46 if you are using both the commander conceal and conceal mod. Torpedo basically the same. Guns are also the same.

 

 I play mine as mainly a torpedo boat. Stay stealthy because at Tier 10 there is mucho radar. Use AP versus Gearing. I hang a speed flag on mine so with speed boost active she zips along 42+ knots, so she can get you out of trouble as fast as she got you into it. Learn when to shoot and when not to. But I still have trouble with that same thing.

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I learned a bit tonight after about 10 games with her. She is good but requires a more aggressive play style. The Z-46 is more like a Yugumo in concept except with Amazing guns and excellent quick torpedoes. Honestly I think I will train a separate captain just for Z-46, I love her that much.

 

The Z-52 is a good boat. I'm still trying to make her shine but here are the best two fights now that I got her down. She is a good pursuit ship but can't win against a Gearing or a Khaba in a straight gunfight without the hydro and smoke combo. She can easily hunt down multiple Japanese destroyers though. I took out two Shimakaze in a 2 on 1 gunfight tonight and won. I know, I know they are IJN but still Z-52 made me proud here.

 

Myn6x9L.png

 

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One tip I learned tonight. Always use AP against a broadside battleship. I know this is something I learned back with Russian DD but forgot it was a thing with german. My Z-52 was doing 5k per volley for 10 volleys against a Yamato at 10km range that was very very broadside. Considering the damage was output in about 40 seconds I was impressed.

 

I got 30k exp with her in a day and researched the top torpedo. I have yet to equip it, no silver!!

Edited by Jakajan

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The 6km Hydro and 2 front mounted turrets are a liability more often than not.

It tempts you to be more aggressive than is good for you and makes you do stupid things like getting to close or out of position.

Play it like the Z-46 and you will be fine. This ship is not a clear upgrade to the Z-46 as the drawbacks (tunring and handling n general) are massive.

However you can drop AFT on it and get a 3rd T3 skill like torp reload or SE.

Edited by tmGrunty

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Almost at 100 games now.

Being aggressive is slowly improving my results.

Have torpedo reload module so my reload is 76 secs.

Its a fickle ship, turns like a pig.

Very thin line between being too aggressive, then being caught out of position.

Fun catching DD's out with Hydro, be careful where their support is.

 

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Almost at 100 games now.

Being aggressive is slowly improving my results.

Have torpedo reload module so my reload is 76 secs.

Its a fickle ship, turns like a pig.

Very thin line between being too aggressive, then being caught out of position.

Fun catching DD's out with Hydro, be careful where their support is.

 

 

It should be possible to get the torpedo reload even lower you know with torpedo armament expertise, or do you take radio positioning instead?

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It should be possible to get the torpedo reload even lower you know with torpedo armament expertise, or do you take radio positioning instead?

 

I dont bother with RPF, more useful things for the 4 points.

I've now taken the 3 point 10% torpedo reload skill, 69 sec reload.

You wont necessarily get more kills/damage BUT its great for area denial and most players either dont know you reload that quick or just turn away.

Even with 69 Knot torpedoes a half decent  BB skipper can still dodge, theres just so many ways in game now to detect torps.

Its not an easy DD to get bulk damage in (for me anyway).

Edited by murryhawk

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Yeah lately in my Z-52 I am almost a pure gunboat. On a good game I get 200+ hits and about 65k damage.

 

On a bad game I still sink a Shimakaze because they are pathetic.

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I usually catch shimas out with hydro, when I'm spotted I usually close in and op hydro/smoke if no radar cruisers around.

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Guns - Guns - Guns

 

Any skill to improve rate of fire, turn rate, etc should be used.  Torps are secondary, period.  Really the first thing you see are DDs and your primary weapon against DDs are your guns.  Forget dispersion and torp rotation.  Go for reload and turret rotation.  I am working my way up with the Z52 and I have found out two things, her 6.1 camo rating allows her to contend caps pretty well and second she can shoot pretty fast when set up right. 

 

My suggestion is that if the enemy has Japanese DDs and you are spotted.  Drive forward quickly to spot them and get guns on them.  Shima has 5.9 camo rating so pushing up will spot her.  Plus the Shimas turret rotation sucks (I have one). 

 

A bit of experience also helps.  If you keep your guns locked in a position toward where the enemy DD will most likely come from your gun speed and reloads will usually cause them to panic and withdraw.  I am still amazed at T10 to see guns on an enemy destroyer swinging around from the other side of the ship  (its possible they just made a turn).  

Edited by Siegewolf

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On 5/15/2017 at 9:52 AM, Siegewolf said:

Guns - Guns - Guns

 

Any skill to improve rate of fire, turn rate, etc should be used.  Torps are secondary, period.  Really the first thing you see are DDs and your primary weapon against DDs are your guns.  Forget dispersion and torp rotation.  Go for reload and turret rotation.  I am working my way up with the Z52 and I have found out two things, her 6.1 camo rating allows her to contend caps pretty well and second she can shoot pretty fast when set up right. 

 

My suggestion is that if the enemy has Japanese DDs and you are spotted.  Drive forward quickly to spot them and get guns on them.  Shima has 5.9 camo rating so pushing up will spot her.  Plus the Shimas turret rotation sucks (I have one). 

 

A bit of experience also helps.  If you keep your guns locked in a position toward where the enemy DD will most likely come from your gun speed and reloads will usually cause them to panic and withdraw.  I am still amazed at T10 to see guns on an enemy destroyer swinging around from the other side of the ship  (its possible they just made a turn).  

Seigewolf,

 

 I kinda see where your going..I just busted the cap on the 46 to get the 52 with my 18 point CPT. I will admit I am set up for rapid torps and it seems the knife fight always happens first with another DD If I make it through that first 2-3 min's of game I can unleash torpedo hell on the other team. But getting through the first fight can be tough..If I may ask what is your Commander layout?

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This is my winning Z-52 configuration.  I'll let my stats be the proof.  If you want more specific tips, feel free to PM me.  This is my #1 ship.

0042e82d48033ffd66640061f8f28ca1.png

 

64c757e15bc2cef8dcb2942521726302.png

 

 

138c6224d67ed7045c3335d12928e0d2.png

 

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Awesome thank you, mine are almost Identical with the exception of BFT which I will be able to get once I get that 19th point, thank you again.

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On 11/25/2017 at 1:18 PM, JochenHeiden said:

This is my winning Z-52 configuration.  I'll let my stats be the proof.  If you want more specific tips, feel free to PM me.  This is my #1 ship.

0042e82d48033ffd66640061f8f28ca1.png

 

64c757e15bc2cef8dcb2942521726302.png

 

 

138c6224d67ed7045c3335d12928e0d2.png

 

I personally disagree with superintendent. At tier X I usually would rather run premium consumables for that 3rd charge (games rarely use more then 3) and save 3 valuable points for something else. I like torp acceleration myself, it puts you much more in the danger zone of radars but at 8.4 km with that torp speed and detectibility you can make a killing.

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9 hours ago, 1An0maly1 said:

I personally disagree with superintendent. At tier X I usually would rather run premium consumables for that 3rd charge (games rarely use more then 3) and save 3 valuable points for something else. I like torp acceleration myself, it puts you much more in the danger zone of radars but at 8.4 km with that torp speed and detectibility you can make a killing.

I typically use up all my smokes and hydros each match so I need them all.

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I've got about 30 games in Z52 so far.  My experience has been either feast or famine.  Either I do very well, or I get detected and deleted 3 minutes in.  I'm starting to hang back from caps a bit at the beginning of a game, because I've figure out that if I a Z52 gets spotted, every ship on the other team drops what it's doing and focuses on it.

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On 12/5/2017 at 8:41 AM, JochenHeiden said:

I typically use up all my smokes and hydros each match so I need them all.

 

Same for me unless I screw up badly and die too fast. I’m more likely to use all of the hydros than all of the smokes. 

I respectfully disagree with the guns-guns-guns approach to this ship. It already has the fastest torp reload at T10. No, they aren’t as potent as Shima torps, but you can launch more of them during a 20 minute battle. They work fine on DDs, provide area denial just fine, and cause flooding. 

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So I recently have looked at our Community Contributors You Tube vid's on playing/builds for the Z-46 and Z-52. (Flammu, Noster, Ect) The general consensus is Torp Builds. Now these build do give them some pretty ridiculous Torp reload speed's (68.9 sec base) But they cost you the true ability to win every 1 on 1 or even 2 on one DD fight's at Caps. I did change my skills and loadout some thanks to these video's But I did not go with the All or nothing Torp builds They  advocate.

Prior to watching their Video's I had run Gun Builds With a Full Gun build you win 99% of Cap point battles hands Down. A turret turn fast enough to keep your guns on target even at insanely close range (under 2km) only slightly slower reload than a Gearing/Fletcher and a MUCH higher potential Damage output from your guns than either of them. You still had a faster torp reload but not the insanely fast reload from their videos.

In most matches I find myself in these cap fights more often than hunting BB's with torps. The Z's excell at cap fights especially the Z-52 with it's 5.88 Hydro and a 6.1 detection. couple that with Steering Mod 2 and if you have it the engine boost mod your almost immune to those torps incoming to your smoke.(Doged the torps from 3 Shimi's 2 Gearings and a Minotaur in one match all coming at my smoke, 73 torps in all) Now after these fights you usually have taken some damage so AR is suggested as a skill to reduce your Torp reload for later game BB hunting. But the Torpedo Module I do NOT suggest. The KM DD's are Jack's of All Trades. And focusing on just ONE of these aspects hurt's you in others, and in the knife fighting for cap areas the Full Torp builds loose their edge. if A Gearing or Fletcher decides to push you at a Cap and you have a torp build they will win. They will out gun you, out turn you and make it so you can't return fire with gun's once inside about 2.5 km.

Sorry Flammu, Noster and others I prefer to WIN these fights. The Big change I made from a Full Gun Build is to drop my AFT. Yeah this dropped my range from 14.5 km to 12.1 km and hurt my AA a little but worth it for the Torp reload. 

My Current Setup for my Z-52  Captain is, PT, PM, AR, LS, TAE, BFT, SI, CE. With Modules as MA1,EB1,AA2,SG2,CS1,MB3.

This give's a good mix for the Z-52 while Keeping the skills for the Torp Build but keeping the Gun Build modules.You have a Base reload of 81 sec for torps (still not bad at all) a 3.2 sec gun reload 11.5 sec 180 turret traverse with a 3.7 sec RST.

This Allows you to keep your guns on any on tier DD if turning and shooting a close range (Under 2.5 km is not a problem) Gives you much of your Torp reload speed for BB hunting later in the Game and the ability to Dodge torps even at close (under 4 km) range.I did try the Full torp build and found the slower ROF and Turret turn to be severely detrimental to Cap point fights. With a full Gun build I almost always won these fights, but with out it  I could only drive off the enemy DD's instead of KILLING them outright. With this modified build I can still win these cap fights with a KILL not just driving them off. and get some of the benefits of the Full Torp Builds.

The problem I see with our CC's view's on the Z-52/46 is they only focus on the torp aspect of these ships even thought they all talk about how the ships is great at a cap fight they do not give their builds the skills and modules to be second to none in them. Even with my less than optimal torp build your Z-52/46 still has one of the fastest torp reloads in game for their tiers, and some of the nastiest Guns for knife fights.

My Former Gun Build included AFT for Range and EM for even faster turret traverse. It did not have TAE or AR which are essential to the torp builds. After playing matches with all 3 builds I think the one I use gives the best of both world without sacrificing too much of the other to Be good at it.

In the end it all depends on What you want to Do. Win the caps and kill other DD's or Kill BB's Both can win the match for your team. But I find that with fewer enemy DD's around my team will win more often  than if I'm just forcing them off the cap and hunting BB's.

1An0maly1 and me agree on most things about these ships, He's better at torping than I am (Checked the stats) so he naturally goes more for the Torp Aspects than I do. I  go more for the Gun aspects neither are a Bad choice. It all depends on your play styles. Both have merritts, both have drawbacks. Finding the balance that fit's your playstyle is the key.

Edited by BarronRichthofen
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I built mine for the guns primarily. I love it this way. A full torp reload spec is fun too, but the torps are anemic.

PS I have 2 captains for Z52 and one is the standard torp build. Its OK, really. But guns...oh man. It can be truly rewarding

 

Edited by Focke66

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Quite simply: be aggressive. The Z-52 does not reward passive play at all, unlike the Z-46. If you're not comfortable being a bully, don't play this ship.

You do need to be mindful of radar, but once you've accounted for those boats and they have either been taken out of the picture or are on the other side of the map, then push like mad. 6km hydro is no joke when dealing with DDs. You can push into a cap and turn it into a no man's land for other DDs by simply sitting in smoke and shooting at everything that tries to inch forward. Just as long as radar is no longer an issue. If there's a radar boat nearby, ping the ever living <bleep> out of it for your team to shoot at. Meanwhile, you can use your quick reloading torps and toss them into smokes and choke points to cause floods and force DCPs.

Edited by KaptainKaybe

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On 10/21/2018 at 9:44 AM, Spooooooooooooooooooooon said:

What's the consensus on HE versus AP for Z52?  I keep losing gun battles in caps while shooting mostly HE.  

Tier 10 DDs are quite fat and very susceptible to AP salvos from smaller calibres. Basically, if a DD is showing it's side and not angled sharply, use AP. if you can. Although I don't blame you if you forget as I do so all the time.

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