post patch 0.6.4 - Bismarck vs. Tirpitz

[VaygrEmpire]

(disclaimer: I own both ships, including perma camo on Bismarck)

People have been saying Tirpitz buff does not mean Bismarck will become useless, and Tirpitz still will play differently compared to Bismarck due to torpedoes. 

 

 

 

 

 

really?

 

Both ships can now have 10.6 km secondary range with secondary set-up. If both ships have exact same set-up, then what happens? One ship has torps, and the other doesn't. 'Oh, Bismarck has hydro and can dodge torps easy.' Mind you, Tirpitz can now get in close range while shooting her secondaries @ 10.6 km as well, and then kill the Bismarck when in torpedo range, or even much closer range(about 3~4 km) where it is impossible to dodge torps with hydro ON. 

 

Before this patch, Tirpitz had to take risk of getting hit by Bismarck's long range secondaries without any additional method to counter that damage other than her main guns. With this patch, she doesn't care any more. Her secondaries can fire back as well. 

 

imo, I think Bismarck needs buff or Tirpitz needs nerf. Reduce dispersion on Bismarck's main guns (leave Tirpitz's dispersion as it is) or reduce Tirpitz's secondary range to that of Scharnhorst or Gneisenau or about 5.5 km. 

[Valdez_Raptor]

I own both and I agree the tirpitz buff was... too much, needs to be toned down a bit.

[HowitzerBlitzer]

Bismarck needs to sit lower in the water, too. 

[BGrey]

Since when has WG  balanced based on 1v1

[ObviousAlt]

Based on current stats, Bismark continues to out perform Tirpitz in raw damage by about 10k. This is consistent across 1 day, 1 week, 2 week and all time stats.

What has changed is Tirpitz's ability to affect the game a bit more, as win rate has climbed to close to 50%, at least short term.

It's no longer bottom of the barrel, it's competitive now, which it should be.

They play differently, Bismark is more forgiving of a poor decision, Tirpitz requires a bit more effort, but both are fun.

I play both and enjoy both, don't see a problem right now, other than Amagi numbers seem to be climbing...

[HazeGrayUnderway]

Patch 0.6.4 came out on 4/18/2017 and as of right now is the 23rd.  We're just short of 1 week's worth of stats:

 

Tirpitz still has the lowest WR% of Tier VIII BBs

Tirpitz still has the 2nd lowest Damage Average of Tier VIII BBs.

Tirpitz XP average ranks 3rd among Tier VIII BBs.

Tirpitz has the lowest Survival % among Tier VIII BBs.

 

Clearly Tirpitz is now OP with the 10.6km Secondaries.

CLEARLY!

 

 

 

... Right?

[dseehafer]

Bismarck needs to sit lower in the water, too. 

 

No, Tirpitz is the one that needs to be lowered to the same level as Bismarck. - ​http://forum.worldofwarships.com/index.php?/topic/120709-tirpitz-needs-to-be-lowered-to-match-her-historical-waterline/page__fromsearch__1

[Vekta408]

(disclaimer: I own both ships, including perma camo on Bismarck)

People have been saying Tirpitz buff does not mean Bismarck will become useless, and Tirpitz still will play differently compared to Bismarck due to torpedoes. 

 

 

 

 

 

really?

 

Both ships can now have 10.6 km secondary range with secondary set-up. If both ships have exact same set-up, then what happens? One ship has torps, and the other doesn't. 'Oh, Bismarck has hydro and can dodge torps easy.' Mind you, Tirpitz can now get in close range while shooting her secondaries @ 10.6 km as well, and then kill the Bismarck when in torpedo range, or even much closer range(about 3~4 km) where it is impossible to dodge torps with hydro ON. 

 

Before this patch, Tirpitz had to take risk of getting hit by Bismarck's long range secondaries without any additional method to counter that damage other than her main guns. With this patch, she doesn't care any more. Her secondaries can fire back as well. 

 

imo, I think Bismarck needs buff or Tirpitz needs nerf. Reduce dispersion on Bismarck's main guns (leave Tirpitz's dispersion as it is) or reduce Tirpitz's secondary range to that of Scharnhorst or Gneisenau or about 5.5 km. 

 

​If you're within 3-4km of a Tirpitz the pewp has already hit the fan. Getting spinklered by a Bis on your way in still sucks.(all the fires) The ship may not care but I care. Still have to make sure going in on that Bismarck is worth it.

[Battlecruiser_Amagi]

I own both ships and I they're fine. You trade torps for hydro and better AA. Nothing more, nothing less.

 

You think that the ship, Bismarck, is weak because it always had low alpha damage. The guns are simply weak and inaccurate, compared to the competition. KM ships are mostly about tanking. It's not until the Friedrich and the Kurfurst where they get some decent alpha damage potential at last.

 

 

Those are my stats on both sips. As you can see, while all stats are pretty similar, I tend to have more average damage on the Bismarck. Why? Because hydro. It allows you to be much more aggressive. If the Tirpitz also had hydro, then there might be balancing problem. Otherwise, I just don't see anyone's argument over this.

[Bacl]

Patch 0.6.4 came out on 4/18/2017 and as of right now is the 23rd.  We're just short of 1 week's worth of stats:

 

Tirpitz still has the lowest WR% of Tier VIII BBs

Tirpitz still has the 2nd lowest Damage Average of Tier VIII BBs.

Tirpitz XP average ranks 3rd among Tier VIII BBs.

Tirpitz has the lowest Survival % among Tier VIII BBs.

 

Clearly Tirpitz is now OP with the 10.6km Secondaries.

CLEARLY!

 

 

 

... Right?

 

Dont you dare brind stats in a rant topic, this is heresy since they are fact that goes against the narrative of said topic.

 

Seriously tho since the buff i managed to torp 1 ship i think with my Tirpitz so far because now with the secondaries buff they kinda tend o run away from me much sooner... I dont really complain tho, having the secondaries is much more useful and the Bismark is still the superior ship, Tirpitz is just more forgiving at the end of the game because its a premium.

 

 

[HazeGrayUnderway]

Hydro is something you can use a lot, most especially so since Battleships are the preferred meals for torpedoes.

 

Torps on a BB is a less often used tool.  Tirpitz plays at tiers where those opportunities get much fewer.  Sure, there is that [edited]in a New Mexico that insists on knife fighting Tirpitz, but in the Tier IX-X matches, those [edited]are less common.

[Bacl]

Hydro is something you can use a lot, most especially so since Battleships are the preferred meals for torpedoes.

 

Torps on a BB is a less often used tool.  Tirpitz plays at tiers where those opportunities get much fewer.  Sure, there is that [edited]in a New Mexico that insists on knife fighting Tirpitz, but in the Tier IX-X matches, those [edited]are less common.

 

Tirpitz is the "dragon slayer", the best at brawl in very, very close quarters combat but remind me when was the last time you've seen a dragon ( if they ever existed).  Its a lousy comparison but it illustrates the ideal scenario for that ship and it doesnt happen often if at all. there are always those honorable ramming attempts that suddenly stop crashing agaisnt my wall of torpdoes . Yet again they dont happen often at all....

[Peregrinas]

If you in a Bismarck get within Tirpitz's torp range, then you screwed up.

 

I own both and the Tirpitz buff was just what she needed. Before, there was no point in playing Tirpitz. You're understating how useful hydro is.

[CleverClothe]

The latest from MapleSyrup:

 

 

KM	BB	8	Bismarck	2201	34295	15.58	50.55	0.01	49.43	1195	56658	0.84	1.74	0.00	0.00	32.63	1.25	1277796	21353
KM	BB	8	Tirpitz	1456	20839	14.31	48.65	0.03	51.32	1255	52814	0.78	1.42	0.00	0.00	30.91	1.13	1246771	21517

 

It is doing a lot better, only 4k behind.  But it is also more than 50% more games compared to last week.

[HMCS_Devilfish]

Those states are not showing the whole picture because I would guess theres lots of Tirpitz owners like me who because of time have only now set up the Tirpitz secondaries to take full advantage of the buff and play the ship

[bad_arcade_kitty]

I own both and I agree the tirpitz buff was... too much, needs to be toned down a bit.

 

premium ship

ever "toned down a bit"

 

the wallet warriors are now *entitled* to have those 10+km secondaries, they think they paid money for them -_-

[Battlecruiser_Amagi]

 

premium ship

ever "toned down a bit"

 

the wallet warriors are now *entitled* to have those 10+km secondaries, they think they paid money for them -_-

 

[Magic_Fighting_Tuna]

I'd like to point out the torpedo's are not exactly a game changer weapon, you'll be lucky if they survive long enough to be used or your enemy lets you wonder into range. How ever I do think the secondary buff was excessive, I figure the best way to go about this would be to reduce the secondary range to match those of the Scharnhorst and Gneisenau then put the left over parts into improving the torpedo tubes.(ex: decrease reload time or increase survivability)

[evilleMonkeigh]

But is the Tirpitz objectively better?

What stats don't show is that Bismark players have at least earned their way to the ship and have some experience in German BB. A Tirpitz player could be a potato with no BB experience past T3 who bought their way into T8 without the requisite skills (i.e. like all Alabama players). This would easily explain stat discrepancies. 

 

It seems like a reverse Shinonome - which looks OP compared to her sister-ship Fubuki (55% vs 48% WR, 33k vs 20k damage). 
Stats suggest the Shinonome is ridiculously OP compared to her regular counterpart.

Objectively, however, the Fubuki is superior in ever area except guns (not an area IJN specialize in anyway).

However at this stage Shinonome is only owned by players who have completed the T8 missions - i.e. more experienced players. 

This easily explains the better stats. 

[CybrSlydr]

The latest from MapleSyrup:

 

 

KM	BB	8	Bismarck	2201	34295	15.58	50.55	0.01	49.43	1195	56658	0.84	1.74	0.00	0.00	32.63	1.25	1277796	21353
KM	BB	8	Tirpitz	1456	20839	14.31	48.65	0.03	51.32	1255	52814	0.78	1.42	0.00	0.00	30.91	1.13	1246771	21517

 

It is doing a lot better, only 4k behind.  But it is also more than 50% more games compared to last week.

 

Not surprising, everyone that has one had to take it out and see what it was like (myself included).  lol

[ObviousAlt]

 

Not surprising, everyone that has one had to take it out and see what it was like (myself included).  lol

 

Selling a bunch half priced ones (After news of the buff) that sold out in 8 hours, probably didn't hurt either. 

[CybrSlydr]

 

Selling a bunch half priced ones (After news of the buff) that sold out in 8 hours, probably didn't hurt either. 

 

Oh wow, they did?  I didn't know that.  

 

Well, that would probably explain it more than my suggestion.  lol

[Hillslam]

Hydro is worthless. Trading torps for hydro or hell anything for hydro is stupid.

[CybrSlydr]

Hydro is worthless. Trading torps for hydro or hell anything for hydro is stupid.

 

I dunno, I like hydro on my Graf Spee.

[HazeGrayUnderway]

Hydro is worthless. Trading torps for hydro or hell anything for hydro is stupid.

 

The torpedo threat from Cruisers and Destroyers is real, most especially when those DDs at the tiers Bismarck and Tirpitz operate in are the stealthiest around.

 

Tirpitz doesn't really get to exercise her torpedoes as much.  The "Surprise!  BB with Torps!" novelty from when Tirpitz was new is long gone.  You'd have to be retarded to fall for Tirpitz torpedoes.