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IcyThor

Montana

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Montana has a survivability rating of 100.  Does that mean it is unsinkable?

 

 

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The ratings don't mean anything significant. Montana is extremely squishy.

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Yes. I heard that the skill Survivability Expert helps with that even more. 

 

 

That was sarcasm. No, god no. She is not unsinkable, and it's not recommend to run SE on battleships. Don't do it, or we will have a collective sad. 

 

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The ratings don't mean anything significant. Montana is extremely squishy.

 

What do you mean by "squishy"?

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What do you mean by "squishy"?

 

Easily damaged and sunk.

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Her citadels are big and poorly armored. It doesn't really matter how much health you have if you're easily cited.

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Her citadels are big and poorly armored. It doesn't really matter how much health you have if you're easily cited.

 

her citadell sits high, but is not poorly armored. unless attempting to bow tank at short ranges (a not so smart thing to do) or going full broadside (thats a paddling) the Montana is sufficiently armored to bounce even yamato shells with her deck and citadel armor. she does however have a low (comparatively) health pool, and her turrets are easily disabled by a good enough shot. shes really closer to a really big cruiser then she is to the other battleships at her teir. this doesn't make her 'bad' but it does mean her roll changes significantly because of her capabilities/weaknesses compared to her peers.

 

she is faster, with better gun rotation and a better turn radius/rudder then her peers. she has smaller guns that are (on average) more accurate (relatively) to her peers. she has better AA, but worse secondaries (in terms of range) then her peers. she has better damage control, but takes more fires then yamato, but less then kurfust when hit by HE.

 

all in all she is a good ship, but she is very different then other BB's at her teir.

 

to answer the OP's question though, the montana, yamato and kurfurst are far from unsinkable. and WG rating system is bull crap(EX: clemson's guns.)

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Thanks for everyone for your input.  As a noob, I thought I had found an "unsinkable" ship.  Back to the drawing board.  lol

 

 

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Yes. I heard that the skill Survivability Expert helps with that even more. 

 

 

That was sarcasm. No, god no. She is not unsinkable, and it's not recommend to run SE on battleships. Don't do it, or we will have a collective sad. 

 

 

Then it goes to 110.

 

 

BTW, speaking of 11, this...

 

Edited by lemekillmister

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The Yamato and Kurfurst have rating of 100 yet both of them could get easily obliterated in a matter of seconds if they find themselves at the wrong place at the wrong time.

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Interesting discussion on the citadels and just got through reading the NC and Alabama topic.  I have noticed that the NC, Iowa and Montana seem pretty easy to citadel with the NC.  However, the German BB line seems impervious to hits that citadel the American BB line.  Really curious just how realistic that is.

 

Since this was an observation from battles, I decided to check it out in a training room.  I had Tier 7-10 German BBs and and Iowa and Montana are parked and inactive.  I was in a North Carolina.

 

At around 9-10KM I fired repeated AP rounds into the broadside of the German BBs and never got a citadel hit.  I tried various elevations.  All at about 0 deflection.  On the Iowa and Montana I was able to citadel multiple times and on the Montana every salvo.  I can't remember for sure but I think she went down in 2-3 salvos.  Haven't gotten around to trying that on the Japanese BB line but in battle, they don't seem that formidable.

 

Maybe this is reflective of the relative strengths of the two lines, I'm no navel expert and I know the ships don't reproduce real world specs in many cases.  I have fun with the game pretty much as is and not many complaints outside the secondary performance on the US BB line.  The NC for example has the same secondaries as the Atlanta has for mains and yet the range is half that as is the firing rate.  You get in close with a German BB and their secondaries are opening up at around 9-10KM...not sure where the balance logic comes in nerfing one lines secondaries and not another especially with their superior armor.

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Interesting discussion on the citadels and just got through reading the NC and Alabama topic.  I have noticed that the NC, Iowa and Montana seem pretty easy to citadel with the NC.  However, the German BB line seems impervious to hits that citadel the American BB line.  Really curious just how realistic that is.

 

Since this was an observation from battles, I decided to check it out in a training room.  I had Tier 7-10 German BBs and and Iowa and Montana are parked and inactive.  I was in a North Carolina.

 

At around 9-10KM I fired repeated AP rounds into the broadside of the German BBs and never got a citadel hit.  I tried various elevations.  All at about 0 deflection.  On the Iowa and Montana I was able to citadel multiple times and on the Montana every salvo.  I can't remember for sure but I think she went down in 2-3 salvos.  Haven't gotten around to trying that on the Japanese BB line but in battle, they don't seem that formidable.

 

Maybe this is reflective of the relative strengths of the two lines, I'm no navel expert and I know the ships don't reproduce real world specs in many cases.  I have fun with the game pretty much as is and not many complaints outside the secondary performance on the US BB line.  The NC for example has the same secondaries as the Atlanta has for mains and yet the range is half that as is the firing rate.  You get in close with a German BB and their secondaries are opening up at around 9-10KM...not sure where the balance logic comes in nerfing one lines secondaries and not another especially with their superior armor.

 

The german ships, however, are vulnerable to plunging-fire.

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A very interesting discussion.  I wonder why WoW assigns survivability ratings and other ratings that are subjective and not factual?

 

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her citadell sits high, but is not poorly armored. unless attempting to bow tank at short ranges (a not so smart thing to do) or going full broadside (thats a paddling) the Montana is sufficiently armored to bounce even yamato shells with her deck and citadel armor. she does however have a low (comparatively) health pool, and her turrets are easily disabled by a good enough shot. shes really closer to a really big cruiser then she is to the other battleships at her teir. this doesn't make her 'bad' but it does mean her roll changes significantly because of her capabilities/weaknesses compared to her peers.

 

she is faster, with better gun rotation and a better turn radius/rudder then her peers. she has smaller guns that are (on average) more accurate (relatively) to her peers. she has better AA, but worse secondaries (in terms of range) then her peers. she has better damage control, but takes more fires then yamato, but less then kurfust when hit by HE.

 

all in all she is a good ship, but she is very different then other BB's at her teir.

 

to answer the OP's question though, the montana, yamato and kurfurst are far from unsinkable. and WG rating system is bull crap(EX: clemson's guns.)

She has the same top speed as GK, a slower turret traverse, and a negligibly tighter turning radius compared to GK. Yamato still turns tighter. To say that Montana is the fastest of the tier 10 battleships is a fallacy.

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She has the same top speed as GK, a slower turret traverse, and a negligibly tighter turning radius compared to GK. Yamato still turns tighter. To say that Montana is the fastest of the tier 10 battleships is a fallacy.

 

There's more to turning than just rudder shift and turning radius. How much speed does each ship bleed in a hard turn, and how quickly does each ship seem to respond to the rudder moving (independent of rudder shift time)?

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There's more to turning than just rudder shift and turning radius. How much speed does each ship bleed in a hard turn, and how quickly does each ship seem to respond to the rudder moving (independent of rudder shift time)?

So what? Do you believe the Montana to be marginally superior to the amount of speed it bleeds in a turn (which is half its speed) compared to GK and Yamato? And should it respond 1 second faster than GK and Yamato?

 

Didn't realize what a great ship I had on my hands!

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So what? Do you believe the Montana to be marginally superior to the amount of speed it bleeds in a turn (which is half its speed) compared to GK and Yamato? And should it respond 1 second faster than GK and Yamato?

It's not the response of the ship that matters.  Grosser Kurfuerst is the size of a small island, so it's much harder to dodge with it.  If you're using the rudder for anything else a lot, then you're not using the ship right, or playing the game right in general.

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Her rating is 100. As in 100% chance of losing most of her life in one salvo if showing broadside to another battleship.

 

Very much looking forward to the upcoming citadel change.

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It's not the response of the ship that matters.  Grosser Kurfuerst is the size of a small island, so it's much harder to dodge with it.  If you're using the rudder for anything else a lot, then you're not using the ship right, or playing the game right in general.

 

There is no right way to play Montana. You bow camp, Yamato does that better. You brawl, Kurfurst does that better. You go midrange, both tier 10 BBs do it better. You go AA, you are useless unless there is a carrier. Try to fight a Yamato? You have no bow armor, but she does. And there is nothing you can do about it. Fight a Kurfurst? If the GK is competent and doesn't give you broadside, she is immune to everything you can throw at her until she just rolls up and paddles you with 8 cits. Have had it happen to me before. I am relishing this new cit update. 6+ cits and point blank deletions will be a thing of the past. 

 

And if you are Jesus Christ himself in the Montana and have never experienced a citadel before, good for you. I am speaking for everyone else and myself of the WoWS community.

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There is no right way to play Montana. You bow camp, Yamato does that better. You brawl, Kurfurst does that better. You go midrange, both tier 10 BBs do it better. You go AA, you are useless unless there is a carrier. Try to fight a Yamato? You have no bow armor, but she does. And there is nothing you can do about it. Fight a Kurfurst? If the GK is competent and doesn't give you broadside, she is immune to everything you can throw at her until she just rolls up and paddles you with 8 cits. Have had it happen to me before. I am relishing this new cit update. 6+ cits and point blank deletions will be a thing of the past. 

 

And if you are Jesus Christ himself in the Montana and have never experienced a citadel before, good for you. I am speaking for everyone else and myself of the WoWS community.

No, there isn't.  And that's her strength: her weaknesses aren't as crippling as the other T10 BBs, but her strengths aren't as great either.  You don't stand still like an idiot and bow-tank, because unlike other T10 BBs you have stealth and AA that you can rely on for self-defense, so while other BBs are busy absorbing fire you rip the cruisers covering their flank to pieces, then flank the other team's BBs and go after them next.  Kite, angle, WASD, use your stealth; if you're sitting still for a prolonged period of time, then you're playing the Montana wrong.  No bow armor?  You have a 457mm frontal bulkhead, which is the thickest of any battleship in the game.  And even though armor penetration outstrips that value handily at most ranges, it's still more than 32mm, which means you can angle it against anything.  Yamato's ability to overmatch your bow exterior means nothing when you can outrun her turrets at below 7km, and even if you can't get that close your HE has a 36% fire chance.  For [edited]'s sake, use it if you see bow-on ships.

 

You don't brawl a German BB in anything that's not a German BB and expect to come out on top (in fact Yamato is even worse at brawling because the octagonal citadel makes it impossible to angle if your opponent knows about it), so your complaint about GK being better up close is moot - that's what she's supposed to be.  Even another Montana that bow-rushes you will crush you if you're playing the way you claim you are, hell, I do it with my Iowa against T10s all the time.  GK is immune to everything you throw at her?  Once again, you have HE, although the fact you can't hit a superstructure of similar size, subtlety, and level of exposure as the Reichstag building, and/or that you can't recognize either it or the thinly-armored turrets as weak points of the Kurfuerst to begin with, says more about what your problem is than anything else.

 

I care not about whether you represent the majority of the community or not.  That just tells me that the majority of the community, and you, can't play the Montana, because it's not me that believes the ship needs a buff.  I'm also not the one who relies on divisions to average out his absolutely-pathetic solo performance with the ship either.

Edited by TenguBlade
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No, there isn't.  And that's her strength: her weaknesses aren't as crippling as the other T10 BBs, but her strengths aren't as great either.  You don't stand still like an idiot and bow-tank, because unlike other T10 BBs you have stealth and AA that you can rely on for self-defense, so while other BBs are busy absorbing fire you rip the cruisers covering their flank to pieces, then flank the other team's BBs and go after them next.  Kite, angle, WASD, use your stealth; if you're sitting still for a prolonged period of time, then you're playing the Montana wrong.  No bow armor?  You have a 457mm frontal bulkhead, which is the thickest of any battleship in the game.  And even though armor penetration outstrips that value handily at most ranges, it's still more than 32mm, which means you can angle it against anything.  Yamato's ability to overmatch your bow exterior means nothing when you can outrun her turrets at below 7km, and even if you can't get that close your HE has a 36% fire chance.  For [edited]'s sake, use it if you see bow-on ships.

 

You don't brawl a German BB in anything that's not a German BB and expect to come out on top (in fact Yamato is even worse at brawling because the octagonal citadel makes it impossible to angle if your opponent knows about it), so your complaint about GK being better up close is moot - that's what she's supposed to be.  Even another Montana that bow-rushes you will crush you if you're playing the way you claim you are, hell, I do it with my Iowa against T10s all the time.  GK is immune to everything you throw at her?  Once again, you have HE, although the fact you can't hit a superstructure of similar size, subtlety, and level of exposure as the Reichstag building, and/or that you can't recognize either it or the thinly-armored turrets as weak points of the Kurfuerst to begin with, says more about what your problem is than anything else.

 

I care not about whether you represent the majority of the community or not.  That just tells me that the majority of the community, and you, can't play the Montana, because it's not me that believes the ship needs a buff.  I'm also not the one who relies on divisions to average out his absolutely-pathetic solo performance with the ship either.

Alright first of all, get off your high horse and cut the condescending crap. I div because the game is boring to play solo. I have played very few battles solo and I outperform my div mate 90% of the time. So that entire statement was tripe. Like I said, I do not care if you can make the ship work hand over fist. The fact is the majority of the player base can't. I pull 150k+ games in Monty commonly. But I have to play it like my [edited]hangs in the breeze and coming upon another BB that focuses you while you are helpless except HE spam (lol I'm a Dunkek now I guess) is not very thrilling. Usually these types of ships have a high risk/high reward. But clearly her reward is not working out when she is statistically performing worse than the other two tier 10s.

 

Btw, you know GK has the same broadside firepower? So what is the point of Monty? Because stock concealment of Monty is only marginally better than Yamato. Going with concealment build is something any of the tier 10 BBs can do and it is a viable option.

 

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Btw, you know GK has the same broadside firepower? So what is the point of Monty? Because stock concealment of Monty is only marginally better than Yamato. Going with concealment build is something any of the tier 10 BBs can do and it is a viable option.

Does GK have good-enough sigma and dispersion to consistently land over half of its broadside out to the upper teens of distances?  Does GK get a 30 second base reload and Yamato-grade penetration on her 420s?  Do her 406s do the same alpha and have the same penetration as the Montana's?  Is concealment worth taking over anything else for other T10 BBs?

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Does GK have good-enough sigma and dispersion to consistently land over half of its broadside out to the upper teens of distances?  Does GK get a 30 second base reload and Yamato-grade penetration on her 420s?  Do her 406s do the same alpha and have the same penetration as the Montana's?  Is concealment worth taking over anything else for other T10 BBs?

 

Does GK have enough armor to easily get close to make that sigma irrelevant? Does GK get 5 seconds better turret traverse in exchange for 2 seconds longer reload? Does Montana even get Yamato-grade penetration with her 16"? Do the 406's on GK matter when she has the 420's to choose? And yes, they can use concealment or target acquisition, Monty is pretty much only useful with concealment.

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Does GK have enough armor to easily get close to make that sigma irrelevant? Does GK get 5 seconds better turret traverse in exchange for 2 seconds longer reload? Does Montana even get Yamato-grade penetration with her 16"? Do the 406's on GK matter when she has the 420's to choose? And yes, they can use concealment or target acquisition, Monty is pretty much only useful with concealment.

Stop shooting at that armor.  I don't know what else to say to you.  The superstructure is large enough to yield normal pens at point-blank and sits completely unprotected.

 

5 seconds better turret traverse is irrelevant when MBM3 is needed to equalize the DPM between the two.

 

Look up your penetration curves.  The 16"/50 MK8 shell has the best penetration of any weapon of that caliber in the game, and contrary to what many Russian bias tin-foil-hatters will tell you, it does closely rival Yamato's until point-blank range.

 

I mentioned the 406s to cover the bases with GK.  If you don't use them, fine.  I know most people don't, but I've seen a few that do.

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