Tier 9-10 Game play Terrible-Waste of grind & Time

[Auriana]

So today's great tier 9-10 battle 

Map Tears of  the Desert

The team sank 2 ships

The team sank 4 ships

and...............

lost by points and the best part......

the team had 10 ships at Flag A while me and another were being chased by 6 enemy ships at Flag C

 

no one and i mean no one would move forward to cap A even though they had a near 2-1 superiority..

Camping in tier 9-10 has gone from a illness to cancer on the high tier game play

 

Fix..for next 6 months punish ALL tier 9-10 players by making them play on OCEAN like maps so that they [edited]learn to use the wsda keys!!

 

[RivertheRoyal]

Er, do you realize that some of the worst camping actually happens on Ocean? Everyone sticks by the map edges normally.....

[_Rumple_]

So this is based on one game, right? Boohoohoo, so you got on a team of muppets...take a break, come back later and maybe some of them have moved on. One bad game doesn't mean every high tier is like that.

[Battlecruiser_Amagi]

I just wished Okinawa and Mountain Range got tweaked. Those two maps are by far the my least favorite. The sorta map that actually temps you to exit to port... :/

[Super_S1X]

So today's great tier 9-10 battle 

Map Tears of  the Desert

The team sank 2 ships

The team sank 4 ships

and...............

lost by points and the best part......

the team had 10 ships at Flag A while me and another were being chased by 6 enemy ships at Flag C

 

no one and i mean no one would move forward to cap A even though they had a near 2-1 superiority..

Camping in tier 9-10 has gone from a illness to cancer on the high tier game play

 

Fix..for next 6 months punish ALL tier 9-10 players by making them play on OCEAN like maps so that they [edited]learn to use the wsda keys!!

 

My experiences at tier 10 are nothing like this.

[BlazerSparta]

K, you do you.

 

As far as I'm concerned, high tiers is where the fun's at.

 

I'd rather play a Shim than seal club in a Kamikaze.

[TenguBlade]

I just wished Okinawa and Mountain Range got tweaked. Those two maps are by far the my least favorite. The sorta map that actually temps you to exit to port... :/

Funny, I actually like those maps.  The A cap on Okinawa is too punishing of bad positioning, but that's not my problem because I don't suffer from it.  Mountain Range's C cap could be a little easier to approach, but the A side is fun.  Just enough room to steer a battleship through if you're skilled enough, and you can lure ships into there and 1v1 them, or just pop out and scare a bunch of people bow-tanking ships at the A cap.

[Panzerkampfschreck]

Yeah tier 9/10 BB meta encourages camping at spawn or map borders.

 

I really wished they put land masses around the map borders to force BB away from doing that.

 

So many times it's 3 v 1  @ 4 minutes left but because my team doesn't have any US/IJN DD/ or IJN/DM CA's with torps the Yamato LOL's at you because you can't burn him down before game ends as long as he runs away and doesn't show broad sides and eat some superstructure AP.

 

I've literally sat in a TrashCan and shot @ 1 Montana for over 10 minutes, literally almost didn't shoot anyone else and only managed to do like 36K damage. The meta basically meant I was dead weight for the team as the Montana never died and I didn't contribute much else but stalk the Montana at long range and praying to the RNG gods for fires.

[_ENO_]

I'm pretty sure I posted a very similar thread back a few months ago... I didn't get tier 10 and generally just whined about the fact that it didn't play out the way I wanted it to. Usually because I got killed a lot with very little in return. So I went back down the lines to 8-9... got a little more low tier (in tier 10 matches) exposure and learned a bit more about how to play it out. I make more than my share of mistakes that get me deleted early- but they're my mistakes. Once you get more exposure and recognize the errors you're making your eyes will begin to open as to the fact that it's not tier X. 

 

The gameplay does grow on you- once you start to get used to it. 

 

[Battlecruiser_Amagi]

Funny, I actually like those maps.  The A cap on Okinawa is too punishing of bad positioning, but that's not my problem because I don't suffer from it.  Mountain Range's C cap could be a little easier to approach, but the A side is fun.  Just enough room to steer a battleship through if you're skilled enough, and you can lure ships into there and 1v1 them, or just pop out and scare a bunch of people bow-tanking ships at the A cap.

 

I've played those maps over a hundred times combined... I don't ever recall having a good game in any of them. It either devolves to lemming trains, or super pacifism on your team. At least with Ocean, the entire map is empty. But having maps that have huge swaths of empty spaces lead to bad gameplay in general...

[TenguBlade]

Yeah tier 9/10 BB meta encourages camping at spawn or map borders.

 

I really wished they put land masses around the map borders to force BB away from doing that.

 

So many times it's 3 v 1  @ 4 minutes left but because my team doesn't have any US/IJN DD/ or IJN/DM CA's with torps the Yamato LOL's at you because you can't burn him down before game ends as long as he runs away and doesn't show broad sides and eat some superstructure AP.

 

I've literally sat in a TrashCan and shot @ 1 Montana for over 10 minutes, literally almost didn't shoot anyone else and only managed to do like 36K damage. The meta basically meant I was dead weight for the team as the Montana never died and I didn't contribute much else but stalk the Montana at long range and praying to the RNG gods for fires.

Funny how the DD players always blame the battleships.

 

You do realize that "being bad at capping" doesn't mean a Soviet DD can't take a cap that's open and unguarded, right?  And that, for all talk of them being bad in caps, nearly all of them can win a contest against any non-USN DD?  If you ran around chasing one sod in a BB who was smart with his damage control and was preying off your bad luck with fire RNG, despite seeing the futility of your efforts, then you did just as little to help your team as a border-camping BB.

I've played those maps over a hundred times combined... I don't ever recall having a good game in any of them. It either devolves to lemming trains, or super pacifism on your team. At least with Ocean, the entire map is empty. But having maps that have huge swaths of empty spaces lead to bad gameplay in general...

As long as there's barriers around the wide open spaces, I'm quite fine with them.  It means that I can just run around the side in a fast BB with an escorting DD and catch upwards of half a dozen braindead fools off guard and broadside.

[awildseaking]

I actually prefer Ocean to Tears of the Desert because at least you're all on a level playing field. There are way too many camping spots on Tears and you basically cannot enter the middle of the map unless you're a DD. Even then, it's incredibly risky. You have more freedom on Ocean and can make strong moves with your team.

[PicknChew]

I share the OP's view on this. Sadly it has become the same at t7 and t8. Not sure below that.

 

 

[Panzerkampfschreck]

You do realize that "being bad at capping" doesn't mean a Soviet DD can't take a cap that's open and unguarded, right?  

 

1. You took this personally, don't get so salty.

 

2. I never mentioned caps so good job with the straw man.

 

3. Many, many people have commented on the stale BB game play at T9 & 10. This goes back to the beginning of the game. 2 Youtubers recently commented on this and how their quitting WoWs for now because of it.

 

4. I merely commented on how BB drivers can simply rely on HP pool to survive 3 v 1 when their in open waters late game and torpedo don't come into play.

 

[Battlecruiser_Siegfried]

I hate that map... but... did we really need another thread about this?

[MajesticTwelve]

I've never had more problems at T10 than any other tier to be honest. I've noticed a less skillful player base overall but that's probably to be expected as even awful players tier up eventually from the grind.

The problem I'm noticing is the massive expense that playing playing your T10 ship brings. Even with premium camo and -repair +credits flags a game that's under 100k is usually a net loss and anything over is barely worth the time, cash wise. I do run premium consumables at in game currency cost so yes I'm sure that doesn't help but at 10 with a DD you need the increased cool downs on your skills in a lot of situations.

I'd like to see them increase the credit output at tier 10.

[TenguBlade]

1. You took this personally, don't get so salty.

 

2. I never mentioned caps so good job with the straw man.

 

3. Many, many people have commented on the stale BB game play at T9 & 10. This goes back to the beginning of the game. 2 Youtubers recently commented on this and how their quitting WoWs for now because of it.

 

4. I merely commented on how BB drivers can simply rely on HP pool to survive 3 v 1 when their in open waters late game and torpedo don't come into play.

1. I'm tired of BBs being the cause of everyone's problems.  I also never specifically mentioned you in that opening statement, you took it upon yourself to take offense.

 

2. You either win by points or you win by killing everyone.  Caps are also DDs' most consistent method of contributing to their team.

 

3. I could care less if a pair of Youtubers said they're quitting.  When you're a BB driver, battleship play at high tiers is as passive as you make it: both of the Youtubers you mention also happen to be unicums with average performances to live up to, so they can't take those risks without possibly hurting their stats.  They can't have their cake and eat it too, so they're leaving.

 

4. Where battleships excel most offensively is in finding a ship or two, cutting them off from the main group, then overwhelming them in a 1v1 or 2v1.  After that, have someone else take up point while you retreat for a minute to let your heal work, then get back in.  You move in when the enemy meets you on your terms.  Your HP pool is not a tool to be thrown away at whim, it has to be managed like everything else, and it is very finite.  Sure, a BB takes only 36k damage from you, but that's 36k he can't put towards tanking shots for his team (though he apparently does not have the brain to do so).  Do also bear in mind that not all damage dealt is entirely repairable.

 

If a BB driver has enough health where he can rely on just HP to rush into a 3v1 with confidence that he can win, especially if the three are DDs or other CAs, he's not playing his ship right.  Think about it: if they could rely on their HP to just live everything, why do they camp in the back?  It's because they can't rely on HP and armor.  You have to be intelligent about when and where to push, as well as when it's time to just cut your losses, pull back, and heal before moving in for another attempt.  The only way BBs are different from DDs and CAs in this regard is that they're most likely to have another chance to push forwards again in the first place.

 

Since you hid your stats, until you prove otherwise I'll presume it's only because you don't play much high-tier BB yourself and not because you think I'm so bad at battleships that you can get away with blatant lies to my face.

[PicknChew]

Funny how the DD players always blame the battleships.

 

 

 

You do realize that "being bad at capping" doesn't mean a Soviet DD can't take a cap that's open and unguarded, right?  And that, for all talk of them being bad in caps, nearly all of them can win a contest against any non-USN DD?  If you ran around chasing one sod in a BB who was smart with his damage control and was preying off your bad luck with fire RNG, despite seeing the futility of your efforts, then you did just as little to help your team as a border-camping BB.

 

I think you are missing the fact that DDs are perma spotted and insta-dead if they fight inside a cap. Thanks to the BB community for that. So, no more Benson games for me, and lets go Khab. Why should I cap ? I can just farm BBs all day now, and wait for them to complain in the forum about HE, smoke, and requesting further nerfs to DDs and cruiser.

 

BBs, on top of poor play, made this a class war. So lets have it now.

 

This game has become fully solo. You wanted no team-play, you have it

 

 

PS: Apologies to all the BBs who actually know what they are doing.

[TenguBlade]

I think you are missing the fact that DDs are perma spotted and insta-dead if they fight inside a cap. Thanks to the BB community for that. So, no more Benson games for me, and lets go Khab. Why should I cap ? I can just farm BBs all day now, and wait for them to complain in the forum about HE, smoke, and requesting further nerfs to DDs and cruiser.

 

BBs, on top of poor play, made this a class war. So lets have it now.

 

This game has become fully solo. You wanted no team-play, you have it

 

 

PS: Apologies to all the BBs who actually know what they are doing.

Clearly not, because your entire reply consists of you spitting on just such a player.  2200 of my battles are in BBs - I'm a battleship driver and proud of it.

 

Did you miss the part where I said he could have taken an unguarded cap?  It's not like teams detach a ship to camp inside each cap they take.  That's all I said.  Pushing into a cap solo at the start, or even while it's contested all the way to late-game, is out of the question without teamwork, and was so even before DDs lost stealthfire.  Stop hiding behind its removal as an excuse - the minute radar came into being, solo-capping at the start of the match was dead for good.  I've never seen a single DD push into a cap with me of their own volition, they always swoop in and turn my solo cap into an assist once my battleship has pushed everyone else out and stomped whoever didn't move.  Fortunately, most high-tier DD players are willing to at least help.  Any enemy DD that's defending a cap I push into isn't going to have time to feel the effects of stealthfire's removal, because my goal would be to not let him get away at all, even before 0.6.3.  Anybody who actually plays high-tier rather than just wallowing around like a braindead fool will tell you they aim for the same result.

 

The rabble might have made it into a class war,  but when this whole "BBabby" nonsense started last year, I actually reminded people to take a step back and remember that this isn't about one class:

http://forum.worldofwarships.com/index.php?/topic/80695-a-personal-appeal-to-bb-players

It should speak magnitudes about how disillusioned in this community I've become to descend into being the resident salt mine.  Go play your Khabarovsk, go play passive, go do whatever you want.  I could care less, and it won't stop me from pushing and doing the right thing for my team, BB driver or not.

 

This game never was team-oriented.  From the first day I played a high-tier warship back in December of 2015, the teamwork has been no better.  The only things that changed were the addition of more tools to punish stupidity and soloing; namely radar and hydro.  The other change is that now there are more divisions running around to exploit everyone else's stupidity and incoordination, so the lack of teamwork is more acute.  You just never felt it, because previously it was BBs that got punished for being alone and without teammates.  Once CVs got the nerfbat and were no longer common enough to depend on constant team scouting in a game, DDs could run around alone and do whatever the [edited] they pleased from stealth as long as they just watched their distance.

 

Battleships never had this luxury.  Good luck trying to disengage and vanish with half a dozen enemy underaged boats running amok, even in a stealth-spec NC.  For BBs, it was always one way and only one way: forwards, because if you tried to go back, you died.  It was just a matter of how slow it was.  To disappear from the enemy, you either wipe out everyone who's spotting you, or you break LoS with them all.  Getting behind cover is possible, but you have to choose your corridor wisely, and there's a chance you could be flanked and remain spotted anyways.  The more reliable way to do so was ask for your team to smoke you.  It remains this way after 0.6.3, the only difference is that, given a stupid-enough DD driver, you can actually kill everyone who's spotting you if you need to drop detection.

[Kichougasaki]

I hope Musashi is T9 =)

[PicknChew]

Clearly not, because your entire reply consists of you spitting on just such a player.

 

 

 

Nope. Because some people play their class well, and don't come here to perma-complain. And I do respect those good players.

 

But after being in a game where a BB was saying that USN and RN should have default radar (not a consumable !) so they would spot every ship on the map, that there should be no smoke, nerf on torps, and increase in secondaries range and accuracy... I just gave up being reasonable.

[TenguBlade]

Nope. Because some people play their class well, and don't come here to perma-complain. And I do respect those good players.

 

But after being in a game where a BB was saying that USN and RN should have default radar (not a consumable !) so they would spot every ship on the map, that there should be no smoke, nerf on torps, and increase in secondaries range and accuracy... I just gave up being reasonable.

Nice cherry picking.  How about I quote the entirety of the post for you to read, this time properly?

Clearly not, because your entire reply consists of you spitting on just such a player.  2200 of my battles are in BBs - I'm a battleship driver and proud of it.

 

Did you miss the part where I said he could have taken an unguarded cap?  It's not like teams detach a ship to camp inside each cap they take.  That's all I said.  Pushing into a cap solo at the start, or even while it's contested all the way to late-game, is out of the question without teamwork, and was so even before DDs lost stealthfire.  Stop hiding behind its removal as an excuse - the minute radar came into being, solo-capping at the start of the match was dead for good.  I've never seen a single DD push into a cap with me of their own volition, they always swoop in and turn my solo cap into an assist once my battleship has pushed everyone else out and stomped whoever didn't move.  Fortunately, most high-tier DD players are willing to at least help.  Any enemy DD that's defending a cap I push into isn't going to have time to feel the effects of stealthfire's removal, because my goal would be to not let him get away at all, even before 0.6.3.  Anybody who actually plays high-tier rather than just wallowing around like a braindead fool will tell you they aim for the same result.

 

The rabble might have made it into a class war,  but when this whole "BBabby" nonsense started last year, I actually reminded people to take a step back and remember that this isn't about one class:

http://forum.worldofwarships.com/index.php?/topic/80695-a-personal-appeal-to-bb-players

It should speak magnitudes about how disillusioned in this community I've become to descend into being the resident salt mine.  Go play your Khabarovsk, go play passive, go do whatever you want.  I could care less, and it won't stop me from pushing and doing the right thing for my team, BB driver or not.

 

This game never was team-oriented.  From the first day I played a high-tier warship back in December of 2015, the teamwork has been no better.  The only things that changed were the addition of more tools to punish stupidity and soloing; namely radar and hydro.  The other change is that now there are more divisions running around to exploit everyone else's stupidity and incoordination, so the lack of teamwork is more acute.  You just never felt it, because previously it was BBs that got punished for being alone and without teammates.  Once CVs got the nerfbat and were no longer common enough to depend on constant team scouting in a game, DDs could run around alone and do whatever the [edited] they pleased from stealth as long as they just watched their distance.

 

Battleships never had this luxury.  Good luck trying to disengage and vanish with half a dozen enemy underaged boats running amok, even in a stealth-spec NC.  For BBs, it was always one way and only one way: forwards, because if you tried to go back, you died.  It was just a matter of how slow it was.  To disappear from the enemy, you either wipe out everyone who's spotting you, or you break LoS with them all.  Getting behind cover is possible, but you have to choose your corridor wisely, and there's a chance you could be flanked and remain spotted anyways.  The more reliable way to do so was ask for your team to smoke you.  It remains this way after 0.6.3, the only difference is that, given a stupid-enough DD driver, you can actually kill everyone who's spotting you if you need to drop detection.

And while we're at it, you have one high-tier battleship, the Bismarck.  And across the board, your performances suck - your best BB is the Myogi - and just get worse as the tiers progress.  What would you know of what it's actually like to play high-tier BB on this campground of a server, let alone the right way?  You don't even have a cruiser past T8, T7 if you count non-ARP ships; you've seen high-tier from one perspective and one perspective only, and it's not the one that pertains to this conversation.

 

Perma-complain?  Excuse me?  Have you any idea what I say on here, or are you just throwing out blind insults in the hopes that one of them might be right?  I'll tolerate a lot of mudslinging, including the notion that I play BBs like [edited], despite me being across-the-board better than you, but being lumped with BBabby trash is a line in the sand.  You're doing a wonderful job of "respecting those good players."

 

I'm walking away from here before I say something to get myself banned again.  Those are strikes, mind you, that I got from being muckraked by both sides for refusing to call either of them right.

[PicknChew]

And while we're at it, you have one high-tier battleship, the Bismarck.  And across the board, your performances suck - your best BB is the Myogi - and just get worse as the tiers progress.  What would you know of what it's actually like to play high-tier BB on this campground of a server, let alone the right way?  You don't even have a cruiser past T8, T7 if you count non-ARP ships; you've seen high-tier from one perspective and one perspective only, and it's not the one that pertains to this conversation.

 

 

 

Perma-complain?  Excuse me?  Have you any idea what I say on here, or are you just throwing out blind insults in the hopes that one of them might be right?  I'll tolerate a lot of mudslinging, including the notion that I play BBs like [edited], despite me being across-the-board better than you, but being lumped with BBabby trash is a line in the sand.  You're doing a wonderful job of "respecting those good players."

 

 

 

I'm walking away from here before I say something to get myself banned again.  Those are strikes, mind you, that I got from being muckraked by both sides for refusing to call either of them right.

 

 

 

Take a breath and relax.

Now just look at the forum and read what BB players say, you might understand. Check also their comments regarding the last update.

 

Don't even try to go into my stats .....

[fbrrhd]

I use to hate tier 10 matches. Mainly because I was in a  tier 8 and got deleted fast. I use to play only cruisers, so at tier 10 match I was fodder. ( I have over 10k games and the first 8k were mainly cruisers, my winrate was terrible and I finished on the bottom of my teams.)

Hated tier 10 matches!!

 

I started playing more bbs and eventually I have all three tier 10 BBs. Life is good, I learned how to play BB's and then Learned how to play tier 10 (without camping, just watching positioning and enemy movements) I can now finish on top or in the top 3 in many tier 10 matches!

 

It took time and loss of credits to learn, But I now prefer tier 10 to the lower tiers. It's a 9 to 14km game at tier 10 and you need to learn to play with those on your team. When you don't, or someone goes off alone to cap, it can be a very short game!!!!!!!

Mistakes at that tier are compounded and you as a team pay for everyone's mistake very fast!!!

If tier 8 is all you have I can see where a tier 10 match is very tricky, when I have the low tier in tier 10 matches, I try as best I can to contribute and get as much damage as I can before being killed. ( and OP ship Like the Bismarck or Tirpitz are at a disadvantage in tier 10!) Tier 9 BB's can compete (except I did hate the IZUMO). 

Cheers

PS

(I might add I have premium account and both Alabama and Missouri, Both can and do play many tier 10 matches....I have at last count 335 Million credits..Most earned at tier 8/10)

[Xenomancers]

Simple rule to go by before you made any move in this game. Find out where the enemy is first - then based in the first few minutes of the engagements you can decide how you want to play it from there.

 

If you are hell bent on playing aggressive or passive you are not going to have any fun because at least half the time it wont be the right call. Even if I am in a Gearing I'm not driving into a cap until I know what I am up against. Early caps mean almost nothing.