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bad_arcade_kitty

torpedo boat kiev, viable or not?

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i never thought it would come to it, but with 8km torpedoes and the ability to get concealment module + camo, kiev gets her detection range to 9*0.87 = 7.83, if we add the captain's concealment skill it will be 9*0.77 = 6.93, unless i am mistaken. considering that the torps usually can be launched from around ~1+ km further than their travelling distance (since you usually launch them at a ship that approaches you, at a certain angle) it gives an ample space for invis torping, 1-2+ km window. a good speed and health allow to flee if you are radared/spotted. kiev launches 10 torps, it's quite a lot, and they, while being slow (55 kn), have a very low concealment (1.1 km). for a comparison, kagero launches 8 torps with 67 kn speed (22% faster), but also with 1.7 km concealment (55% worse), and it's a dedicated stealth torpedo boat. sure, kagero's torps travel 2km longer, hit much harder 14400 vs 20967, her reload speed is slightly faster, nearly the same as kiev's (0.54 vs 0.51 shot/minute, without modifiers) and she is noticeably more stealthy 6.84*0.77 = 5.27, but she is also no match to kiev's speed and armament, she is also more squishy, and for some reason with that torp concealment difference, i think kiev might have a higher chance to land her torps

 

so, what do you think?

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Give it a try!  It'd be interesting to see if that kind of a build works :)

 

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I am not sure which commander skills I should get rid of to make room for CE. I have thought about it many times but still can not convince myself that it is worth it. If I want to buff my torpedoes even more I would have to sacrifice another 3 points for TAE. Pushing the limit even further to turn an amazing gunboat into a castrated hybrid when Ognevoi exists in the same tier with great torpedoes already.

Edited by m373x

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I am not sure which commander skills I should get rid of to make room for CE. I have thought about it many times but still can not convince myself that it is worth it. If I want to buff my torpedoes even more I would have to sacrifice another 3 points for TAE. Pushing the limit even further to turn an amazing gunboat into a castrated hybrid when Ognevoi exists in the same tier with great torpedoes already.

 

Don't need anything fancy. PT, AR, LS, BFT, DE, AFT, CE. As to how viable it is I can't say but if you can afford to respec the captain why not try it.

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Don't need anything fancy. PT, AR, LS, BFT, DE, AFT, CE. As to how viable it is I can't say but if you can afford to respec the captain why not try it.

 

Sure, give it a go and report back with your survivability rate in T10 matches.

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Comrade...that is not how you play the balanced line. 

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Sure, give it a go and report back with your survivability rate in T10 matches.

 

If you're playing it as a hybrid it should be about the same, if you're playing it as a torpboat take kagero's and add 5% for vodka.

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btw, i have tested this build on the test server (i should admit i did it in coop because i wanted 10 wins for the camo and realized i had only like 2-3 hours after work to get them before, according to the news page, the test ends, so it doesn't mean much, still, with how crazy aggressive bots are in coop, the worthiness of concealment was pretty obvious), it doesn't feel bad, i mean you just pick the concealment module and the concealment captain's skill, if you have a 14 points captain - why not? it's like - preventive maintenance, last stand, bft, aft, concealment; but even without aft 12.3 is not a terrible distance, poor z-23 with 150 mm guns has only 10.8 range after all, and with a much worse speed

 

btw i did the match wrong, it's not 9*(1-0.1-0.1-0.03) i.e. 6.93, it's 9*(1-0.1)*(1-0.1)*(1-0.03) i.e. 7.07 ~ shown as 7.1 in game

Edited by bad_arcade_kitty

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i never thought it would come to it, but with 8km torpedoes and the ability to get concealment module + camo, kiev gets her detection range to 9*0.87 = 7.83, if we add the captain's concealment skill it will be 9*0.77 = 6.93, unless i am mistaken. considering that the torps usually can be launched from around ~1+ km further than their travelling distance (since you usually launch them at a ship that approaches you, at a certain angle) it gives an ample space for invis torping, 1-2+ km window. a good speed and health allow to flee if you are radared/spotted. kiev launches 10 torps, it's quite a lot, and they, while being slow (55 kn), have a very low concealment (1.1 km). for a comparison, kagero launches 8 torps with 67 kn speed (22% faster), but also with 1.7 km concealment (55% worse), and it's a dedicated stealth torpedo boat. sure, kagero's torps travel 2km longer, hit much harder 14400 vs 20967, her reload speed is slightly faster, nearly the same as kiev's (0.54 vs 0.51 shot/minute, without modifiers) and she is noticeably more stealthy 6.84*0.77 = 5.27, but she is also no match to kiev's speed and armament, she is also more squishy, and for some reason with that torp concealment difference, i think kiev might have a higher chance to land her torps

so, what do you think?

 

It's viable. Because of it's speed it can stay in front of the red ships and stealth torp at closing ships from beyond 9 km. I was doing it in the Tashkent with 7.4 detection, but it's much easier with a lower detection. The 8 km range gives far more opportunities than the 4 km of the T5/6/7 tiers do. Expected to get detected and have the opposing ships avoid your torpedoes a lot. 

 

 

 

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No. 

 

If you want a torpedo focused DD that isn't garbage (aka isn't the kagero), spec a Benson or Ognevoi for torps. 

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No. 

 

If you want a torpedo focused DD that isn't garbage (aka isn't the kagero), spec a Benson or Ognevoi for torps. 

 

it's not about speccing kiev for torps (i.e. no skills related to torps), it's about speccing her for sneakiness

 

kiev has quite an advantage in speed and guns (for benson - in long range shooting)

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it's not about speccing kiev for torps (i.e. no skills related to torps), it's about speccing her for sneakiness

 

kiev has quite an advantage in speed and guns (for benson - in long range shooting)

 

Yeah, it's more opportunistic than anything. Landing a couple torpedoes also dramatically complicates dam con if the ship can also be set on fire. 

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it's not about speccing kiev for torps (i.e. no skills related to torps), it's about speccing her for sneakiness

 

kiev has quite an advantage in speed and guns (for benson - in long range shooting)

 

Don't ever spec tier 8-10 VMF DDs for stealth, that's not their purpose. And I'm aware of the advantages that the Kiev has given that I am currently grinding the Tashkent. Go double rudder shift module and spec into AFT+BFT+Demo Expert+Survivability Expert. That's its best build.

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This sounds like a waste of a perfectly good Kiev.

 

 

Don't ever spec tier 8-10 VMF DDs for stealth, that's not their purpose. ...

-snip-

 

Except for the sub-branch, which can do quite well in stealth spec. Including the Ognevoi, which gets down to 6.1km detection and has 10km torps. If you want a very good stealthy tier-VIII VMF torp boat, good news - it exists! It just happens to not be the Kiev.

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This sounds like a waste of a perfectly good Kiev.

 

 

Except for the sub-branch, which can do quite well in stealth spec. Including the Ognevoi, which gets down to 6.1km detection and has 10km torps. If you want a very good stealthy tier-VIII VMF torp boat, good news - it exists! It just happens to not be the Kiev.

 

Yea true but the OP's question is concerning the Kiev, so talking about the Ognevoi is completely irrelevant, lol. 

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it's not about speccing kiev for torps (i.e. no skills related to torps), it's about speccing her for sneakiness

 

kiev has quite an advantage in speed and guns (for benson - in long range shooting)

 

 

Don't ever spec tier 8-10 VMF DDs for stealth, that's not their purpose. And I'm aware of the advantages that the Kiev has given that I am currently grinding the Tashkent. Go double rudder shift module and spec into AFT+BFT+Demo Expert+Survivability Expert. That's its best build.

 

There are other reasons to spec a Kiev for stealth which gives you strategic and tactical possibilities that a non stealth build will give not you. One reason as bad_arcade_ kitty has pointed out is the 7.1 km detection versus 8 km torp range giving you .9 km stealth torping window. Anyone good at stealth torping should be able to use it effectively while easily remaining undetected.

 

Another weakness of non stealth build Kiev is cyclones, as such a build has greater spotting range than cyclones and you are screwed when one hits as you get detected the same time as any cruiser or battleship. Going stealth build giving you 7.1 km detection gives you the ability to out detect larger ships in a cyclone first, letting you stealth torp them or fire off a few shots before disappearing as you run away.

 

Another thing you can do with a stealth build Kiev is contest caps as the enemy isn't going to expect you coming. You just have to be smart about which caps you try for and watch how much support the opposing destroyer has to decide whether to contest or leave.

 

I hope this helps you out in your decision bad_arcade_ kitty. I myself run a full concealment Kiev and am able to do things that a lot of people don't expect I find. I do build a gun focused concealment build rather than torpedo or hybrid. If you want the captain build I'm planning on using, let me know. If you want to know how I play the Kiev as well, I'll discuss tactics and strategies as well.

Edited by Lightninger

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Yea true but the OP's question is concerning the Kiev, so talking about the Ognevoi is completely irrelevant, lol. 

 

It is relevant because the existence of the Ognevoi is my whole reason for recommending against a stealth/torp Kiev build.

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Why Torpedoboot when you can gunbote?:bajan:

 

 TMezerC.jpg?1

 

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ognevoy is a crap though, she severely lacks the third turret and is way too slow

 

anyway i am not sure how aft is better than ce overall nowadays, kiev already has more than 12km range after all and increasing it also increases your bloom which matters too if you dance to and from on the ~12km range, on the cost of being able to shoot at ~14km, but, even with her ballistic, shooting at that range isn't that great...

Edited by bad_arcade_kitty

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