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11C2Papa

German or US BB?

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What tier?

 

Good luck whittling a bow on gk, with its 104k go and heavy armor, down to 10k before he's in his optimal range.  Especially considering if he's mounting 406mm, which do virtually he same damage as usn 410mm but fire even faster and mount just as many guns facing forward as any usn BB, or worse if he's mounting 420mm which not only do more damage also reload faster and mount just as many forward guns.

 

All that I face, which is mostly T6-8 as I play mostly T6.  But have found no problem with T9 or 10 German battleships in my Alabama, Amagi, or NC.  I've also been accused of cheating by a few German BB players for doing so much damage to them.  The problem with German ships is they are not dangerous until they get in close, by which time they've lost a lot of damage.  You also assume that I'm allowing the German ship to close the range.  At 30 knots the German ships do not have an advantage over the other nations BBs.  And many times the return fire isn't as accurate and you do take way less damage.

The problem is most German captains do not know their ship, they've been on easy mode which makes the easy targets if you know how to engage them.


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sooooo... in a realistic situation, you've likely only done maybe 10,000 damage to him before he's at his optimal range and closed past your own optimal range, plus he's probably done similar damage to you that you've done to him.  end result, you're in the disadvantageous position relative to him in every way.

Apparently, no one's told my 'Bama, which has taken up to 40k off of GK before through Superstructure hits.

 


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Posted (edited) · Report post

Apparently, no one's told my 'Bama, which has taken up to 40k off of GK before through Superstructure hits.

 

 

well, i can tell you that in 99 battles in my kurrywurst, 88 battles in my fdg, 84 in bizmarck and 59 in tirpitz (plus around another 100 with the all lower tiers combined), i can't remember a single time a single enemy ship has ever taken off 40k of my hp in the time its taken me to get within secondary range of him, assuming he didn't get lucky and sucker punch me from my broadside with the first shot.

 

ive had 40k taken off my gk, fdg, bizmarck and tirpitz from superstructure hits... but not from bow on AP hits, even from yammys, let alone any usn bb, including the bama.  the only time a bama has ever managed to, without any help from his buddies or from setting fires, take off 40k of my hp before i get him in my danger zone, is when im either a) ignoring him for the moment because im dealing with a bigger threat like a smoked up dd nearby or someone else equally capable of planting a bunch of torps in me, or b) he's got some other artificial or momentary advantage, like he's camping behind an island that ive got to maneuver around or he managed to surprise me from my broadside with his first salvo.

 

but bottom line, if i see you at the same time you see me, and im bow on to you with the intent to close range and brawl it out with you... you will not be taking 40k of my hp off before i get in brawiling range, even if you are in a yammato, let alone an alabama (unless you start spamming he, and even then, 40k fire damage is the average i take over the course of an entire match, much less one single 1v1).  you may, once we're in brawling range, manage to chunk 40k off me in a single salvo if i screw up and show you a close range broadside... but you will not be doing 40k damage to me before that while im bow on to you closing the distance.

Edited by Shadeylark

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but bottom line, if i see you at the same time you see me, and im bow on to you with the intent to close range and brawl it out with you... you will not be taking 40k of my hp off before i get in brawiling range,

 

Once again, you assume I'll let you close the range quickly.

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Once again, you assume I'll let you close the range quickly.

 

A) What he said.

B) I have a concealment-specced 'Bama. I'll see you 'fore you see me.


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A) What he said.

B) I have a concealment-specced 'Bama. I'll see you 'fore you see me.

Once you fire, that goes away. In the game's current state, the Alabama is no match for Großer Kurfürst, as it shouldn't be for a tier 8. The problem is that in a 1v1, Montana is also no match for her either.


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Posted (edited) · Report post

 

A) What he said.

B) I have a concealment-specced 'Bama. I'll see you 'fore you see me.

 

there's that possibility.

 

but let's scope this scenario, shall we?

 

you see me, you shoot first.  im bow on, so the issues already discussed regarding hit chance and potential damage apply.  if you're bow on to me, then i can close the gap because you can't reverse faster than i can go forward.  if you're broadside on to me, well, you know what happens to bb's caught broadside.  if you're hugging a rock, you can't turn in that direction, leaving you the option to sit still (i can close the gap if you do this), to move forward towards me (doubling my closing speed), or you can turn broadside.

 

the ONLY way you'll prevent me from closing the gap on you, or doing massive damage to your broadside target, while i take minimal damage in return, is if you're already driving away from me... in which case i wouldn't play the tail chase game (and nor should anyone with half a braincell in their head).

 

your entire argument is predicated upon the german bb driver playing like an idiot while you play smart.  if you're relying on your enemy to be dumb in order to win, you're relying on luck instead of skill to win.

Edited by Shadeylark

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Once you fire, that goes away. In the game's current state, the Alabama is no match for Großer Kurfürst, as it shouldn't be for a tier 8. The problem is that in a 1v1, Montana is also no match for her either.

 

the montana's issue is its enormous citadel.  fix that and you go a long way to making the montana competitive with both the gk and the yammy.  maybe not quite on par, but alot better than it is now.  the monty is a ship that has no choice but to bow camp just because its even less forgiving of taking risks than the gk or yammy.

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<snip>

When I see you, I'll hold fire, and then get-around so that I can shoot your side, when I'm bow-on and have the advantage. You see me, and you begin turning. I will slow to 3/4 or 1/2 speed, and shell you in the superstructure. Once you compensate with your aim, I'll slow to 1/4th speed, or even stop and reverse. However, once your secondaries start opening-up, I'll go full-speed. I'll still shoot you, because my goal here is to deal as much damage to you before I go down. With a not-insignificant amount of luck, I'll even ram you.

 

Of course, this is assuming a 1v1. Once destroyers and cruisers are in-play, things get a lot more complicated.


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When I see you, I'll hold fire, and then get-around so that I can shoot your side, when I'm bow-on and have the advantage. You see me, and you begin turning. I will slow to 3/4 or 1/2 speed, and shell you in the superstructure. Once you compensate with your aim, I'll slow to 1/4th speed, or even stop and reverse. However, once your secondaries start opening-up, I'll go full-speed. I'll still shoot you, because my goal here is to deal as much damage to you before I go down. With a not-insignificant amount of luck, I'll even ram you.

 

Of course, this is assuming a 1v1. Once destroyers and cruisers are in-play, things get a lot more complicated.

You are assuming he plays like an idiot. I don't know where you fathom your chance to win an engagement with a Großer Kurfürst in an Alabama.


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You are assuming he plays like an idiot. I don't know where you fathom your chance to win an engagement with a Großer Kurfürst in an Alabama.

 

Didn't say I'd win. I was just saying how I could conceivably deal 40k damage to him. That's what the bet was.

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I'm gonna start this off by saying I'm below avg to avg player , but It's never gone well in a knife fight for an American BB against me in any of my German BB's . Right now I kinda cringe when I see too many American BB's on my team because I've been hung out to dry by them in a push a few too many times . Now I'm gonna say that lowering the citadel on tier 8-10 American BB's can't happen soon enough for me . Yes , it'll make them tougher opponents but more importantly it'll make them tougher team mates . I'm not good enough to carry a match yet so and I play solo so having allies to push with is important to me . No ship stands up for long when it's focused on , not even the GK .


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I'm gonna start this off by saying I'm below avg to avg player , but It's never gone well in a knife fight for an American BB against me in any of my German BB's .

While it's not recommended, you can deal a lot of damage in an NC or Alabama by knife-fighting Germans. People don't expect it, and they don't expect the 16-inch pain on their superstructure hits.

 

I've knife-fought Bismarks and Tirptitz-es and won, even though I was outnumbered, because the enemy team wasn't playing smart.


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Didn't say I'd win. I was just saying how I could conceivably deal 40k damage to him. That's what the bet was.

I could do you one better then. Ram him, you've just done 60+k.


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While it's not recommended, you can deal a lot of damage in an NC or Alabama by knife-fighting Germans. People don't expect it, and they don't expect the 16-inch pain on their superstructure hits.

 

I've knife-fought Bismarks and Tirptitz-es and won, even though I was outnumbered, because the enemy team wasn't playing smart.

 

Where were you when I needed ya ? :) I got creamed a coupla nights ago in my GK on twin brothers . I had two Iowas's and a CL with me on the east flank and I'm thinking , good no lemming train , I got support . Wrong answer , both Iowa's hit the brakes leaving me and the CL over exposed and facing a swarm of Red's . I couldn't disengage so I went bow on and did as much damage as I could before being sent to Valhalla . Both Iowa's camped behind an island and peeking out now and then , they weren't angled and got eliminated quickly . I've one shotted Iowa's , Missouri's , and NC's so I know they need to be angled properly or pay big consequences so I kinda understand the reluctance to push .. Guess I need to learn to carry better . And watch my team mates more closely . 

 


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you see me, you shoot first.  im bow on, so the issues already discussed regarding hit chance and potential damage apply.  if you're bow on to me, then i can close the gap because you can't reverse faster than i can go forward.  if you're broadside on to me, well, you know what happens to bb's caught broadside.  if you're hugging a rock, you can't turn in that direction, leaving you the option to sit still (i can close the gap if you do this), to move forward towards me (doubling my closing speed), or you can turn broadside.

 

You're assuming a lot of things.  I've taken on many German BBs and won.  One things you assume right away is that you're going to be bow on in the beginning of our fight.  That's a rare thing from what I've seen.  Everything you've said is situational which is the best case for you.  Anything other than that, you'll lose your health quickly.

You might win, but you will not get out of the battle with little health loss.  The problem is you've never faced someone who has figured out the armor of the German BBs. Once you do, its easy damage to farm.  Sorry, but that's the truth.  The problem is most people do not know how to battle the German BBs.  Its gotten to where I actually target them first because I know how easy it is to farm damage off them.


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Posted (edited) · Report post

I could do you one better then. Ram him, you've just done 60+k.

 

Been there, done that.

T10 BBs I've ram-killed in Alabama/NC:

  • Yamato
  • G. Kurfurst

The only one left right now is Montana!

Edited by Carrier_Lexington

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