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11C2Papa

German or US BB?

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German line is fun. I'm on the FDG now though and it's going to be an interesting grind to the Kurfurst.


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Ignore what the server statistics numbers say, listen to your own voice and look into your own statistics.

 

Here are some easy steps to prove that I am not buul-shutting:

 

1. Look into your own win rate statistics, remove the division play and only look into the solo mode win rate (By so you remove the win rate delta done by your division buddy)

2. Rank your ship from high win rate to low win rate. Ignore a ship you play less than 20 rounds - The sample size is too small to be statistically meaningful. They are your winning ships, with whatever factors that affect your play.

3. Look at the server win rate ranking and see how different it is to your own win rate ranking. Server win rate data includes all ships, you probably don't have all ships, but you can easily take out the ships you don't have.

 

Then you will realize that you - your skill, play style, level of aggressiveness, or even your screen size - affect your game way more than a $60 premium ship or the slight win rate difference between USN BB and German BB line. German BB beats US BB on server win rate statistics, but that doesn't mean you will always do better in German BB vs. USN BB. Look into your own play style and find out what works out the best with you.


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Germany is easy mode, like others have said, you can be a total idiot in them and not get rekt. Bismarck and FDG - unlucky = one hit to your citadel. Iowa and Montana - unlucky = five or six hits to your citadel or getting splatted like a cruiser.


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I just have one statement regarding German Battleships in WoWS.

 

There is not one bad ship in the German BB line.

 

The only ship line that performs "the best or among the best" better than German BBs at every tier is... the IJN CV line.


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At tier 7 on German, tier 5 on US line. Have premium BB's for both to train crews. Trying to figure which to focus on, so far leaning towards German, love the 7km+++ secondaries at tier 8 and up. Just looking for suggestions and why people like them or don't like them. I have been more of a CA/CL player - support/snipe etc, but like the durability of BB's, plus landing citadels in a BB is so satisfying. Thanks for any input and suggestions!

 

I have gotten to Montana and Grosser Kurfurst and like them both.

On average, the USN ships have better main guns that on average hit harder and have better penetration and accuracy

Tier 7  - Germans have superior AA, 8+ Americans have superior AA

Germans have better secondaries

Germans have faster turret traverse times

Germans have faster rudder shift times

Germans at all tiers have a better armor scheme for brawling with better protected citadels.

German battleships have vastly superior speed until tier 8 the gap shrinks, Iowa is fastest BB in game, GK and Montana are tied.

High tier German battleships are much more Yamato resistant

American battleships tend to have better concealment at higher tiers and can more easily take advantage of concealment builds - especially 8 and up - fire and disappear, ships give you broadside again and again

 

Edited by Wyatt_DERP85

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At tier 7 on German, tier 5 on US line. Have premium BB's for both to train crews. Trying to figure which to focus on, so far leaning towards German, love the 7km+++ secondaries at tier 8 and up. Just looking for suggestions and why people like them or don't like them. I have been more of a CA/CL player - support/snipe etc, but like the durability of BB's, plus landing citadels in a BB is so satisfying. Thanks for any input and suggestions!

 

German Engineering.> All If i knew there was going to be a German B.B. line i would have started this game playing German Cruisers.

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There is not one bad ship in the German BB line.

I see your stat-based, logical deduction and raise you Bayern.

Sure, a lot of people go on to say it's "the best T6 BB". To them, I just point to four things:

 

Guns: You only have 8, and they're 12 inch

Dispersion = Your guns are manned by Ork Shoota Boyz

TDS = It's German. What did you expect?

Superstructure: Eats AP damage like New Mexico's Bow

 

I really hated Bayern. I loved König and Kaiser and Nassau, but I hated Bayern, and it was mainly due to the terrible dispersion at range.

 

The only redeeming factor about that ship was that the secondaries were manned by Ork Burna Boyz, and they excelled at setting things on fire.


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I see your stat-based, logical deduction and raise you Bayern.

Sure, a lot of people go on to say it's "the best T6 BB". To them, I just point to four things:

 

Guns: You only have 8, and they're 12 inch

Dispersion = Your guns are manned by Ork Shoota Boyz

TDS = It's German. What did you expect?

Superstructure: Eats AP damage like New Mexico's Bow

 

I really hated Bayern. I loved König and Kaiser and Nassau, but I hated Bayern, and it was mainly due to the terrible dispersion at range.

 

The only redeeming factor about that ship was that the secondaries were manned by Ork Burna Boyz, and they excelled at setting things on fire.

 

Give Bayern ASM1 and I swear you'll change your mind on her gunnery.

 

I originally had my Bayern setup "Warspite Style" with a Secondaries focus.  But then I tried it out for s--ts and giggles with ASM1 and she's a very different ship.

 

Unlike the Standard USN BBs, Bayern is faster than them.

Unlike a number of BBs in this tier, Bayern has good protection.

With ASM1 then those 15" guns start connecting.

And the 15" shells will laugh at other BB armor in the tier.

 

This is very true for all the German 15" armed BBs.  Without ASM1 they're very unreliable except for shorter range fights.  But give them ASM1 and you can sling shells at range with confidence.  It's the same reason why I elected to have Tirpitz with ASM1 while my Bismarck is Secondaries Build.  Bismarck is fun in that in your face style but Tirpitz with ASM1 is a more comfortable ship to play at any typical BB engagement ranges.  Like my ASM1 Tirpitz, my so-fitted Bayern I feel comfortable to use at the same scenarios.  My ASM1 Bayern is not a ship that only excels in a brawl.  She'll kite and hit with reliability if needed, and if I need to brawl, the guns are accurate.  My Bayern is already averaging more damage than any of my Tier VI BBs, and I have them all.  I do good damage in Mutsu with her 16" guns and Fuso is "My Baby" at Tier VI.  But Bayern is so far outstripping them.

 

So IMO, the point still stands.

 

There is no bad ship in the German BB line.

Edited by HazeGrayUnderway

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Give Bayern ASM1 and I swear you'll change your mind on her gunnery.

 

I originally had my Bayern setup "Warspite Style" with a Secondaries focus.  But then I tried it out for s--ts and giggles with ASM1 and she's a very different ship.

Hmmm... might try this.


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The German line is better, but the US has the best premiums.  Texas + Arizona + Alabama + Missouri  is a heck of a combo to play with one shared commander.   Remember also that they are going to release a tier 10 premium Japanese BB soon. 

 

German has the best premium BB. Konig Albert has the second best BB win rate behind Nikolai. Sharnhorst is arguably the best overall premium battleship due to it's forgiveness, performance and fun factor. And Tirpitz is now out race Bismarck with it's secondary buff. German has nothing weak in it's premium BB offering.

 


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Both lines are great.  Germans are definitely the more forgiving line, with excellent armor and great Secondaries.  Torpedoes even on a couple of ships.  They are not indestructible though, and experienced players will PUNISH a poorly play German.  Highlights for me were the Kaiser and Bismark (Scharnhorst Premium is godly) with the Bayern and Gneisenau being the low points.  FDG at IX was okay...but I really like the GK at X.

 

I'm up to tier VIII on the American line, and I'm really enjoying the ship.  So many German players give way too much broadside, so I just punish them with my 16' guns.  The tier VI NewMex is also an excellent ship, and I'll take it any day over the Bayern.  VII Colorado wasn't my cup of tea.  Texas Premium is a riot at V.

 

Overall, Germans easiest to pick up, but I'd say the Americans are more rewarding of skilled play over the long term.


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I sort of have to disagree with that sentiment of the German BB's being the easy mode; then again I'm maining Scharnhorst/Gniesenau in regards to BB's, and both tend to follow alot of the same tactics as the T8-10 USN BB's, where I have to work on angling and not exposing too much of my sides.

 

The main difference I see is in regards to an engagement, the USN has the advantage once you get past 15 km due to accuracy, whereas once you get closer the Germans will punish you, especially once you get into secondary range. Both have their advantages and disadvantages, and in honesty the only reason I focus more on the Germans over the USN is simply because I prefer playing the Axis power lines more than the Allies (IJN/DKM cruisers FTW!)

 

​They are the most noob friendly BB in the game though. The turtleback armor makes them so forgiving. Turtleback armor, good speed, troll secondaries or hilariously troll AA You even get torpedoes on a couple if you include the Tirpitz along with the Genis.

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If you like getting up close and personal pick the German BBs great secondaries that have good reach and volume of fire you can make unspotted DDs and Cruisers pay for not escaping you, turtle back armor layout will troll newer players thinking that landing a hit at the waterline will grant them a citadel hit.

 

The reason why would people play USN BBs is because they take corners better(low mid tiers) they are faster at the higher tiers, AA suite is impressive *looks at the CVs at the sickbay with bandaids not covering their injuries* and that german BBs have thin deck armor and inaccurate guns at further range. 


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Stats seem to show BBs with the highest WR are US at tier 4 5 6 9.  So do you want a specific ship at a specific tier or the line that has the most amount of good ships?  Tier 7 and 10 are indeed German for BBs.

 

 


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Posted (edited) · Report post

If your are looking for sneaky fast battleships with murderous AA the the US are your choice.

 

If your looking for massive tanky close in beasts, German battleships are your choice.

 

My preference, Well... maybe US maybe German? I really like them both for their unique aspects. Though as of now, the US are inferior in the reason that their key nemesis, planes are nearly extinct. Meanwhile, Germans still have other ships and lots of them are very derpy. Hopefully Carriers will make a comeback, but as of now, German are superior.   

Edited by Joe__defender_destroyer

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One word...speed.  Until you get to tier 8, USN BBs are slow as molasses. 


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One word...speed.  Until you get to tier 8, USN BBs are slow as molasses. 

 

And then they abruptly switch to 32 knot speeds.

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The edge goes to the Germans after tier 7 because the German BB's get torps

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I do a lot of that damage as they are trying to get in close.  By the time they finally get into effect range against my US BB, they're usually down to 10k of health or so and can't run away, even if they have the superior speed.

What tier?

 

Good luck whittling a bow on gk, with its 104k go and heavy armor, down to 10k before he's in his optimal range.  Especially considering if he's mounting 406mm, which do virtually he same damage as usn 410mm but fire even faster and mount just as many guns facing forward as any usn BB, or worse if he's mounting 420mm which not only do more damage also reload faster and mount just as many forward guns.


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The edge goes to the Germans after tier 7 because the German BB's get torps

 

Wrong. ONLY the T7 and Tirpitz get Torps. And one of those is a premium.

 

After T7, Germans revert to being regular battleships, with Bismark, FDG, and GK.

 

Good luck whittling a bow on gk, with its 104k go and heavy armor, down to 10k before he's in his optimal range.

All it takes is superstructure hits. Germans eat full-pens for superstructure hits.


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German are the kings of brawlers however in a division american bb can put out strong zone control especially against air craft


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Posted (edited) · Report post

 

All it takes is superstructure hits. Germans eat full-pens for superstructure hits.

even assuming the engagement starts at max range, you're gonna get only 3-4 salvo off before that gk is within 10km and at his optimal range.  average bb accuracy is 33%.  at an optimistic 4 salvos from a usn bb's 6 forward facing guns, that's a total of 24 shells downrange.  at 33% accuracy, that's 8 hits.  normal penetrating shots deal 10% of maximum damage per hit.  even optimistically you're only gonna deal roughly 40,000 damage.  gk has 105k hp.  you haven't even taken off half his health by the time he's at his optimal range, and inside of your own optimal range.

 

and this is all assuming he's not shooting you on his way in either.  nor is it taking into account that if he's coming at you bow on his hit box is even smaller, meaning a 33% hit rate is very unlikely.

 

sooooo... in a realistic situation, you've likely only done maybe 10,000 damage to him before he's at his optimal range and closed past your own optimal range, plus he's probably done similar damage to you that you've done to him.  end result, you're in the disadvantageous position relative to him in every way.

Edited by Shadeylark

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Posted (edited) · Report post

German are the kings of brawlers however in a division american bb can put out strong zone control especially against air craft

 

This would be great if there were actually a lot of CVs being played, but they're not so the AA advantage is moot.  In addition, WG saw fit to give German BBs just as good AA, especially when it's part of a Mutual Air Defense since Ze Germans get equally as good long range AA as American BBs.  Matter of fact, at Tier VII, Gneisenau is completely superior in Air Defense than Colorado.

 

Selecting USN BBs because of good AA doesn't mean much when another BB line has just as good AA.

Edited by HazeGrayUnderway

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