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godzilla5549

Armor Penetration Curves for Tier X Cruisers

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Here is a collection of all the armor penetration curves for the Tier X cruisers.

 

k4oukE7.png

 

  • Red: Mosvka
  • Light Blue: Henri IV
  • Blue: Des Moines
  • Green: Zao
  • Magenta: Hindenburg
  • Brown: Minotaur

 

Extra things to note:

 

Des Moines has an AP autobounce angle of 67.5 degrees, which means that it will not bounce at normal angles and will penetrate at more extreme angles compared to all other Tier X cruisers (with the exception of Minotaur)

 

Minotaur has the Royal Navy CL AP shells which will penetrate at some absurd angle (that I do not know specifically).

 

Henri IV had the AP shells changed according to the following (in 0.6.3.1):

 

AP Shell Krupp: 2,282 --> 2,882

 

AP Shell Drag Coefficient: 0.3376 --> 0.2764

 


 

MATLAB code provided by fnord_disc from EU

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Do you mean kilometers for distance? Because bringing the Hindenburg into touching distance to citadel BBs doesn't sound right. 

 

Thank you tho, I was curious.

Edited by X15

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Do you mean kilometers for distance? Because bringing the Hindenburg into touching distance to citadel BBs doesn't sound right. 

 

Thank you tho, I was curious.

 

On the far right is a x10scale identifier.

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This info is probably fantastic.  I wish you would interpret it for us mathmatical noobs.

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This info is probably fantastic.  I wish you would interpret it for us mathmatical noobs.

 

5km, 10km, 15km, etc.

Which explains the line ends (max range)

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This info is probably fantastic.  I wish you would interpret it for us mathmatical noobs.

 

It means that Zao was never actually OP and that Henri IV will almost as OP as Moskva, if she can land the hits.

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It means that Zao was never actually OP and that Henri IV will almost as OP as Moskva, if she can land the hits.

 

Don't get me ranting about Zao. It's not the line on the graph but the stats of her guns which seem to have been established based on incredibly limited and somewhat flimsy information discovered after the war. Zao also gets awesome torpedoes, decent AA, and even with the removal of stealth fire still has an excellent concealment rating.

 

The fact is that her 8" guns currently fire a heavier shell than the USN 8" super-heavy AP at a velocity almost the same as the 60-caliber length German 8" guns.

 

Compared to the 8" guns the Russian gun is not only larger at 220mm (8" is 203mm) it has a 65-caliber length barrel and typical Russian/Italian characteristics meaning it would probably wear out the barrel liner after 100 shots. As far as I know the French 240mm is mostly a WG creation based off the fact the French had an earlier 240mm naval gun. Compared to the Russian gun its level of performance is more sane but the larger caliber means it is still competing for the top (or will be after they adjust the stats).

 

In short, Zao defies physics.

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I believe Minotaur has the same AP autobounce angles as the Des Moines.  Either that or double that of DM's reduction.

Edited by TenguBlade

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Don't get me ranting about Zao. It's not the line on the graph but the stats of her guns which seem to have been established based on incredibly limited and somewhat flimsy information discovered after the war. Zao also gets awesome torpedoes, decent AA, and even with the removal of stealth fire still has an excellent concealment rating.

 

The fact is that her 8" guns currently fire a heavier shell than the USN 8" super-heavy AP at a velocity almost the same as the 60-caliber length German 8" guns.

 

Compared to the 8" guns the Russian gun is not only larger at 220mm (8" is 203mm) it has a 65-caliber length barrel and typical Russian/Italian characteristics meaning it would probably wear out the barrel liner after 100 shots. As far as I know the French 240mm is mostly a WG creation based off the fact the French had an earlier 240mm naval gun. Compared to the Russian gun its level of performance is more sane but the larger caliber means it is still competing for the top (or will be after they adjust the stats).

 

In short, Zao defies physics.

 

Zao's guns, despite the label, are 20.3cm/55 caliber, not 50 caliber, thus giving her the greater shell velocity. All the info on the guns were brought up in a thread done by I think TalonV which had a similar question as you regarding the gun and shell characteristics.
Edited by Doomlock

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Henri Quatre has the best pen at close range by a fraction then gets overtaken by Moskau after around 150-200m of shell distance flight, don't think many well make use of that narrow window of opportunity.

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Zao's guns, despite the label, are 20.3cm/55 caliber, not 50 caliber, thus giving her the greater shell velocity. All the info on the guns were brought up in a thread done by I think TalonV which had a similar question as you regarding the gun and shell characteristics.

 

I've read that but it's strange the game doesn't label them correctly considering it gives the correct designation for weapons that historically the Japanese gave incorrect designations to in an attempt to confuse people. Either way that difference isn't going to enable the level of performance those guns have. Not without horrendous dispersion and barrel wear issues at least, and in reality the Japanese put a premium on minimizing dispersion for their large caliber naval guns.

 

I'd prefer to see the Zao have less-capable but more realistic guns and in exchange get a larger health pool. However I'd prefer even more to beat the Zao with the nerf bat until it resembles the Katori after Iowa got done with her, so my judgement may not be the best.

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Zao needs some buffs, mainly to her traverse (back to IJN standard 30s) and HP (back to 48900).  Torpedo range optional (12km as an option or 10km as an option).  RoF is fine.  Outside of that, it really won't change her stats; she's solidly in the middle or last across all 4 servers.  That would just make Zao a bit more flexible.

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Zao needs some buffs, mainly to her traverse (back to IJN standard 30s) and HP (back to 48900).  Torpedo range optional (12km as an option or 10km as an option).  RoF is fine.  Outside of that, it really won't change her stats; she's solidly in the middle or last across all 4 servers.  That would just make Zao a bit more flexible.

 

Yet according to that her damage stats are also always first or second on all 4 servers.

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Yet according to that her damage stats are also always first or second on all 4 servers.

 

Which is due to HE spamming, an obvious one due to being pigeonholed into role that ever since she was nerfed.  But in terms of overall performance, still at or below WG's 50%.

 

Thus, with the recent changes, a slight buff towards general flexibility and straightforward combat will inch that up without making her OP as many like to keep believing.

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Henri Quatre has the best pen at close range by a fraction then gets overtaken by Moskau after around 150-200m of shell distance flight, don't think many well make use of that narrow window of opportunity.

 

The idea of HIV being in a short range fight is as bad as Pensacola doing the same thing.  It'd be funny to watch people try, though :D

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I've read that but it's strange the game doesn't label them correctly considering it gives the correct designation for weapons that historically the Japanese gave incorrect designations to in an attempt to confuse people. Either way that difference isn't going to enable the level of performance those guns have. Not without horrendous dispersion and barrel wear issues at least, and in reality the Japanese put a premium on minimizing dispersion for their large caliber naval guns.

 

I'd prefer to see the Zao have less-capable but more realistic guns and in exchange get a larger health pool. However I'd prefer even more to beat the Zao with the nerf bat until it resembles the Katori after Iowa got done with her, so my judgement may not be the best.

 

Last I recall, ArdReiss mentioned that the No. 3 guns were pass checked as "won't break breech" but with substantially reduced barrel life (over 50%) compared to the No.2. That being said, their use of superheavy AP shell mock-ups as opposed to the newer proper heavy AP shell that the IJN had in stocks was a weird decision.

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Yet according to that her damage stats are also always first or second on all 4 servers.

Damage stats mean nothing in a game where one ship has 20k HP, another has 100k HP, and 2/3 of the ships in a match have a heal.

Edited by Aetreus

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Don't get me ranting about Zao. It's not the line on the graph but the stats of her guns which seem to have been established based on incredibly limited and somewhat flimsy information discovered after the war. Zao also gets awesome torpedoes, decent AA, and even with the removal of stealth fire still has an excellent concealment rating.

 

The fact is that her 8" guns currently fire a heavier shell than the USN 8" super-heavy AP at a velocity almost the same as the 60-caliber length German 8" guns.

 

Compared to the 8" guns the Russian gun is not only larger at 220mm (8" is 203mm) it has a 65-caliber length barrel and typical Russian/Italian characteristics meaning it would probably wear out the barrel liner after 100 shots. As far as I know the French 240mm is mostly a WG creation based off the fact the French had an earlier 240mm naval gun. Compared to the Russian gun its level of performance is more sane but the larger caliber means it is still competing for the top (or will be after they adjust the stats).

 

In short, Zao defies physics.

 

Tell that the The russian DD's armed with 130mm, or the late Kirovs. Oh wait they fixed the barrel wear but kept the high velocities. Ooops, nice derepy though :).

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It means Moskava's AP is always the best.

 

Well yes, there's no reason to assume that a Shell starting with the highest Penetration would end up with less than the highest.

 

If only because the Shells are effectively the same type. 

 

Keep in mind that the Russian Cannons are pretty much fantasy notes that have only a momentarily reality because the Barrels in question would have failed within 200 rounds and would have never been accepted into service because of it.

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Keep in mind that the Russian Cannons are pretty much fantasy notes that have only a momentarily reality because the Barrels in question would have failed within 200 rounds and would have never been accepted into service because of it.

 

What are you basing that on?

 

  • 130mm B-13 was a very reliable gun, used both as naval and ground artillery.  They had a barrel life of well over 1000 rounds.
  • The 152mm/57 B-38 had a barrel life of about 450 rounds.  Compare this to the 500 round barrel life of the Nurnberg-class cruisers.
  • Soviet 180mm were easily the problem child of the naval gun family.  They suffered from abnormally high muzzle velocity which wore out their barrels prematurely.  At best, they could fire 320 rounds before needing to be replaced but it was often less.
  • The Soviet 220m/65 only had a prototype completed.  With Project 66 cancelled, the gun was only completed for experimental purposes.  Her barrel life was estimated at over 500 rounds.

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  • The Soviet 220m/65 only had a prototype completed.  With Project 66 cancelled, the gun was only completed for experimental purposes.  Her barrel life was estimated at over 500 rounds.

You left out that basically all sources consider this an extremely-optimistic number.  I doubt the barrel life would have been more than 350-400 rounds in practice with that kind of working pressure, even with a 70-caliber barrel.

Edited by TenguBlade

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  • The Soviet 220m/65 only had a prototype completed.  With Project 66 cancelled, the gun was only completed for experimental purposes.  Her barrel life was estimated at over 500 rounds.

 

^That being an estimate, and not a reality. In addition what Tengu said, that is the high-ball-best-chance-ever Barrel life.

 

Then you have the Kharb which is more in the would not and could never level of physics-breaking problems but that's for another time.

Edited by Sakuzhi

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