Opinion: IJN DDs aren't "bad", just boring and situational (T7)

[CLeclerc16]

Like the title said, I just want to share my opinion on IJN DDs right now (Akatsuki, and my observations on many Kageros in my games)

I can get really good games, in the games i played recently I have murdered things like Tirpitz, Bismarck and NC from full health down to 0 in a salvo and walk away with it. There are also times when I go around a corner to try my luck to spam torps at 3 BB and 3 cruisers all cramped up in a square tile, and suddenly sees a Z23 4km away from me and of course I was instantly melted. 

Which leads to my point- They are not bad, but u need to be super lucky. What I tend to do is lead my team to kill destroyers on the other team and then do what you do best, be aware of factors that might lead a BB to turn and just pray they make the mistake. Torping cruisers are tough, only doable on dumb players and ships without radar, and only then most of the time only 1 might hit, which isnt enough to take them out of the fight. Dont bother fighting another DD. In general they are only fun when you hit big fat torps on BB, and it frustrates me so much when my team can't take out the enemy destroyers, and i get chased around by them or radar cruisers. I dont have the connection, but i think it will be advisable to play with anti destroyer cruisers in a division.

(I am running a 11 point captain, used in PE, last stand, SI, and CE.)

Share your thoughts on how Japanese destroyers should be played should they be different from my observation, and what change might be made.

[GhostSwordsman]

Akatsuki, is a bit of an odd duck in the main IJN DD line in my opinion. If you spec her for a hybrid type build, by supplementing gun and torpedo abilities, I've found that she's really solid. I've tried a pure torpedo boat Akatsuki, and it got me the lowest damage games I've ever scored in her. With the more hybrid build, I get much, much more consistent results, which isn't easy to come by in IJN DDs.

[Sabot_100]

The IJN torpedo boats need to be lucky or have the red team cooperate to have a good or even an average game. You can have great games if the enemy  hasn't heard of WASD. I have had many games where I survive until late game but get no torpedo hits. A competent red ship is pretty much torpedo proof if you are firing from stealth ranges. (Recently was being chased by a Tirpitz (closest enemy, others nearby) in my Shiratsuyu and only managed to land 1 TT in about 4 salvos (including reload booster)). If you are spotted, life can be hell.

 

As has been often pointed out many times, gun use is situational. There are limited circumstances where you can expect to deal more gun damage than you will receive, especially with the new gun bloom. You can spec them for guns but you will always be an inferior gunboat to other DDs so it comes down to your (player) skills.

[TheStarSlayer]

Akatsuki is probably the poster child for influence ratcheting up the longer she lasts.  At the start of the match her mediocre concealment demands you be cautious about spotting duels versus other cans, however, late game when the map opens up she really comes into her own.  With the speed signal hoisted she can make turns for roughly 40 knots, coupled with her torpedo outfit you can easily flex around the map and punish out of position ships.  If you husband your HP for the mid to late game and have good map awareness I find she can be a lot of fun.

 

In a head to head approach against a BB you are looking at roughly 60-70 knots combined closure, time it right and you're dumping fish in their face before they can even react.  

[Hochtaloughie]

I'm still having a blast running the Kamikaze Triplets but otherwise... pretty much "Meh"! However, the changes have come while I've been concentrating on learning to cruiser for the past month, or so. So no recent experience to measure. 

 

[RivertheRoyal]

There's a rule I use in my torpedo boats. 

 

Never fire a torpedo salvo at the same target more than once in a row. 

The line's been fairly successful with this in mind. I actually kinda like IJN DD's now.   

[GhostSwordsman]

There's a rule I use in my torpedo boats. 

 

Never fire a torpedo salvo at the same target more than once in a row. 

The line's been fairly successful with this in mind. I actually kinda like IJN DD's now.   

 

Yep, this is great advice, and some I don't see mentioned often.

 

I once had a game in my Kamikaze, where I fired torps around and island hoping that the enemy DD nearby would sail into them. A Dunkerque off in the same general direction had to maneuver to avoid them. Even though he wasn't the intended target of the previous salvo, I chose to loose my next salvo at an approaching NM. He took 4 of the 6 and sunk, because he wasn't expecting torpedoes whereas the Dunkerque likely was expecting more to come it's way. I got the Dunkerque a few minutes later along with the DD as they finally pushed around that same island though.

[X15]

I've found blind fire to be remarkably rewarding. Be it into smoke or at the corner of an island you strongly suspect, results can pop up with a bang.

I also say firing each of your launchers at a separate target increases overall hits per game.

[CLeclerc16]

Akatsuki, is a bit of an odd duck in the main IJN DD line in my opinion. If you spec her for a hybrid type build, by supplementing gun and torpedo abilities, I've found that she's really solid. I've tried a pure torpedo boat Akatsuki, and it got me the lowest damage games I've ever scored in her. With the more hybrid build, I get much, much more consistent results, which isn't easy to come by in IJN DDs.

 

what do you mean by hybrid build? i dont think it is possible with a 12 point captain though

[CLeclerc16]

Akatsuki is probably the poster child for influence ratcheting up the longer she lasts.  At the start of the match her mediocre concealment demands you be cautious about spotting duels versus other cans, however, late game when the map opens up she really comes into her own.  With the speed signal hoisted she can make turns for roughly 40 knots, coupled with her torpedo outfit you can easily flex around the map and punish out of position ships.  If you husband your HP for the mid to late game and have good map awareness I find she can be a lot of fun.

 

In a head to head approach against a BB you are looking at roughly 60-70 knots combined closure, time it right and you're dumping fish in their face before they can even react.  

 

idk if it's just me, but Akatsuki looks as long as some t5/6 cruisers and the turn looks really wide sometimes. Of course i have never played other nation's DD so i have no idea if its true.

[Capt_Mexib]

I've played maybe 3k games in IJN DD's, if things get "exciting" your doing it wrong IMO.

[GhostSwordsman]

 

what do you mean by hybrid build? i dont think it is possible with a 12 point captain though

 

No, 12 points isn't quite enough for a 'hybrid' build. A hybrid build would encompass all skills able to be obtained with 19 points(though 15 points is enough to start).

 

What I mean by hybrid, is to take skills (and upgrades) that will enhance both your gunnery and torpedoes, though, you'll have to lean one way or the other a bit. I lean towards gunnery a bit more than torpedoes, but that's because dedicated torpedo boats can be really feast or famine. For instance, my Akatsuki has both EM and the MBM 2 upgrade on it, with BFT. What this does, is it brings the 180º rotation time down to 19 seconds, which allows you to keep your guns on target in hard maneuvers, and the reload penalty is negligible. The reload is about 7.6 seconds after all this, I think(don't recall exactly).

 

This won't make you into a gunboat, but, it does allow you to much better defend yourself with your guns, and in very specific situations, use them to good effect offensively. For a while, I was using TAE to enhance my torpedo capability.(you'll want this too in the 'hybrid' build) Akatsuki's top torps are good enough that you shouldn't necessarily need TA, but it's an option. I used TAE to quicken the reload, and it helps. However, I eventually switched over to SE, as i was finding myself in more situations where I needed the HP because I had to fall back on my guns or my torps weren't doing enough to keep enemies at bay, or just to survive longer into the late game.

 

Basically, this is my build(15 points):

1: PM

2: EM, LS

3: SE, BFT

4: CE

 

What I plan to get when I reach 19 points are TAE and PT to complete the build.

[X15]

I used my Atago hybrid captain on Akatsuki:

(15 points)

PM

AR, EM

SI, DE

CE

It worked alright but Kagero is 3 times the ship IMHO.

[TheStarSlayer]

I wonder if AR would be a good investment for the added RoF buff to guns and torps, especially with the ectra HP from SE?

[GhostSwordsman]

I wonder if ER would be a good investment for the added RoF buff to guns and torps, especially with the ectra HP from SE?

That's a good question. But then again, as a DD that can't use it's guns very well offensively to begin with and is meant to stay hidden as often as possible, why would you want to lose HP at all?

 

At least, that would be my counter question.

 

Edit: It may help if your attempting to maximize a stealth torpedo boat type of play, but still, I'd rather not have to lose HP just for an advantage like quicker reloads, and I prefer to use the guns on Akatsuki as they're quite potent and underrated.

[CLeclerc16]

I used my Atago hybrid captain on Akatsuki:

(15 points)

PM

AR, EM

SI, DE

CE

It worked alright but Kagero is 3 times the ship IMHO.

 

3 times the ship as in much better???

[X15]

 

3 times the ship as in much better???

 

Take this with a grain of salt because I'm apparently too lucky for my own good in the kagero, but yes, the 10KM-20k damage torpedoes are lovely. Let alone the 5.4km detection range.

[MrDeaf]

That's a good question. But then again, as a DD that can't use it's guns very well offensively to begin with and is meant to stay hidden as often as possible, why would you want to lose HP at all?

 

At least, that would be my counter question.

 

Edit: It may help if your attempting to maximize a stealth torpedo boat type of play, but still, I'd rather not have to lose HP just for an advantage like quicker reloads, and I prefer to use the guns on Akatsuki as they're quite potent and underrated.

 

Basically, if you are playing aggressively and using your superior concealment to cap caps, you could end up losing some HP.

Even if you aren't playing the caps, if you are being aggressive and trying to get into a good torping position, you could randomly run into a red DD and lose some HP.

Either way, having 100% HP for the entire game in a DD should be pretty rare. That means one team is extremely incompetent and you are either steamrolling or they are pushing so aggressively, that you don't have to.

[m373x]

I wonder if AR would be a good investment for the added RoF buff to guns and torps, especially with the ectra HP from SE?

 

AR is a great investment for hybrid builds.

[Admiral_Thrawn_1]

Mutsuki is the worst, unless a player is not thinking at all they will not get killed by one of those, often when I see one on a team I basically consider it the same as being short a warship because often they sink with barely any damage having been done. Really hard to get much of any damage done with her unless Wargaming gives you a map with a ton of narrow island opening you can use to make ambush an enemy because the way her Torpedo spreads are you will rarely hit much. Seems like average Torpedo hit ratio is like 1 out of 40 Torpedoes last time I kept track lol. At least rest of IJN DDs seem to do a little better in part thanks to having more than 2 guns to back up their Torpedoes if needed.

[Sabot_100]

Mutsuki is the worst

 

Yes the Mutsucki gets to go head to head with that 7 gun, 12 torpedo Russian monstrosity with nearly the same concealment rating (is balance!). The only thing it has going for it is slow-to-reload stealth fired torpedoes that almost never hit unless the enemy is unlucky or incompetent and a less laughable AA rating. Have to spend the whole game in fear that you will be spotted because everything is a major threat except another Mutsucki or a ship that is already on deaths door. Its the only ship I would actively seek out in a Minekaze hoping for a gun battle.

 

This can make for some pretty boring game play.