Crosys

For events that occurred on Saturday, March 18, 2017

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Buenas días Staff del Torneo Supremacy League

 

Por los sucesos ocurridos el día sábado 18 de marzo de 2017

 

El presente comunicado tiene como finalidad hacer saber la molestia, malestar y disconformidad  que se ha presentado en varios clanes integrantes del torneo respecto al cambio de horario ocurrido recientemente en el mismo, dicho cambio de horario afecta notablemente la participación en el torneo, colocando a cada uno de los clanes afectados en una posición comprometedora, porque al haber sido presentado un cronograma de las batallas a disputarse, al haberse  fijado ya una hora específica para cada batalla a disputarse, se nos afecta, como grupo no perteneciente a la región geográfica UTC – 05:00 (ET Time) con un cambio de horario que es costumbre en esa región, pero que es completamente atípico para nosotros, los integrantes de los clanes no pertenecientes a esa región geográfica, dicho cambio de horario tampoco es notificado por los canales de comunicación oficial de la Supremacy League, y a entenderse, que aun, siendo el cambio de horario una costumbre habitual en esa región en cuestión, así mismo, no lo es para las demás regiones afectadas (Sur América y Asia) ni para los clanes que están inscritos y están en representación de dichas zonas afectadas.

 

Bajo conversaciones privadas con el Staff del torneo, se citó el reglamento bajo el cual se rige el torneo (https://www.warshipsupremacyleague.com/season4/ruleset) en particular, Art 2, numeral 2, el cual dice “Los partidos sólo se jugarán el sábado y comenzarán a las 21:00 ET para el primer partido  y 22:30 ET para el partido dos” con el fin de alegar que se establece una zona horaria determinada, pero como es mencionado previamente, dicha zona horaria tiene costumbre de cambios de horario que son atípicas a las demás zonas, y sabiendo que poseen este habito en los cambios de horario, lo más prudente seria avisar de que dicho cambio afectara los programas de batallas en cuando a la hora en que se darán las batallas, adelantándolas una (1) hora, esta notificación no se dio, y este error es aceptado por el mismo staff del torneo.

 

Ahora bien, por la falta de notificación por parte del staff del torneo seis (6) clanes en particular se vieron afectados de un total de treinta y tres (33) clanes inscritos en el torneo, lo cual representa el 18.1% del general, lo cual, en escala representativa es bastante significativo. Estos mismos seis clanes se vieron forzados a declarar el primer encuentro como Forfeit, por no tener una costumbre de cambio de horario y por no ser notificados que dicho cambio de horario tuvo lugar en primer momento, así mismo, cada uno de los equipos entra en proceso de penalidad en cuanto al número de Forfeits permitidos llegando a tener el primero de tres Forfeits permitidos, el cual pudo haber sido evitado si la notificación hubiese tenido lugar.

 

Como se puede observar, la falta de notificación en cuando a costumbres relacionadas  a los cambios de horarios llevados en una región geográfica en particular, afectaron significativamente a los integrantes de los clanes inscritos en el torneo los cuales no perteneces a dicha región geográfica UTC – 05:00 (ET Time), esto crea un sentimiento de molestia, de inconformidad y de disgusto haciendo entender de que por no compartir las mismas costumbres o la misma región geográfica, se nos amonesta o se nos perjudica como particulares y como colectivo. Si bien existe un reglamento, el cual se usa como un modelo para tener orden y acatar ciertas normal, también dicho reglamento está supeditado a los principios generales del Derecho como lo es el Principio de notificación (citation ad totam causam seus generalis) y el Principio de publicidad (audiatur et altera pars) presentados por Carnelutti en “Metodología del Diritto", en donde es dado como carácter sine qua non que estos principios ocurran antes para luego si poder hacer algún tipo de sanción hacia la parte, dicho principio está presente tanto en los países con un estilo Romancístico de Derecho, así como países dentro del Common Law.

 

En conclusión, y como pensamiento personal, tomo de muy mal gusto que dichos cambios no hayan sido notificados a los integrantes y/o participantes del torneo, solo por no compartir una región geográfica o una costumbre particular referente a cambios de horarios, así como también tomo muy reprochante la imposición del articular de un reglamento sin antes ser notificada la parte afectada, lo cual representa una clara violación a la misma regla, porque, aun cuando en el reglamento este mencionado que “Los partidos sólo se jugarán el sábado y comenzarán a las 21:00 ET para el primer partido  y 22:30 ET para el partido dos” (Art 2, numeral 2) no existe en ningún lugar de dicho reglamento la responsabilidad que deben tener el staff del torneo a cumplir con el principio de notificación y el principio de publicidad cuando se lleve a cabo algún cambio en el reglamento.

 

 

 

 

Now in English

 

 

Good morning Supremacy League Tournament Staff

 

For events that occurred on Saturday, March 18, 2017

 

The purpose of this press release is to make known the discomfort and dissatisfaction that has occurred in several clans that are part of the tournament regarding the recent change of schedule in the tournament. This change in schedule significantly affects participation in the tournament, placing each one of the affected clans in a compromising position, because a schedule of the battles to be disputed has been set, and a specific time has already been set for each battle to be fought, we are affected as a group not belonging to the geographical region UTC - 05:00 (ET Time) with a change of schedule that is customary in that region, but that is completely atypical for us, the members of the clans not belonging to that geographical region, this change of schedule is not notified by the communication channels of the Supremacy League, and to understand that, although the change of schedule is a habitual custom in that region in question, likewise, it is not for the other affected regions (South America and Asia) as well as for the clans that are registered and representing those affected areas.

 

Under private discussions with the Tournament Staff, the rules governing the tournament (https://www.warshipsupremacyleague.com/season4/ruleset) were cited, in particular Art 2, numeral 2, which reads " Matches may only be played Saturday and will start at 21:00 ET for match one and 22:30 ET for match two" in order to claim that a particular time zone is established, but as mentioned previously, that time zone has custom of changes of schedule that are atypical to the other zones, and knowing that they possess this habit in the changes of schedule, the prudent thing would be to warn that that change will affect the programs of battles in when to the time in which the battles will take place , forwarding one (1) hour, this notification was not given, and this error is accepted by the same staff of the tournament.

 

However, due to the lack of notification by the tournament staff, six (6) clans in particular were affected by a total of thirty-three (33) clans registered in the tournament, which represents 18.1% of the general, which on a representative scale is quite significant. These same six clans were forced to declare the first encounter as Forfeit, for not having a custom of change of schedule and for not being notified that said change of schedule took place in the first moment, likewise, each of the teams enters in penalty process in terms of the number of Forfeits allowed, having the first of three forfeits allowed, which could have been avoided if the notification had taken place.

 

As can be observed, the lack of notification in regard to customs related to the changes of schedules carried out in a particular geographic region, significantly affected the members of the clan registered in the tournament who do not belong to a geographical region UTC - 05 : ET (ET Time), this creates a feeling of annoyance, discontent and disgust making it understood that by not sharing the same customs or the same geographic region, we are warned or harmed as individuals and as a collective. Although there is a regulation, which is used as a model to have order and to comply with certain normal, also said regulation is subject to the general principles of the Law as it is the principle of notification (citation ad totam causam suis generalis) and principle of publicity (audiatur et altera pars) presented by Carnelutti in "Metodologia del Diritto", where it is given as a sine qua non character that these principles occur before, for later if it can make some type of sanction towards the part, this principle is present both in countries with a Romanistic style of law, as well as countries within Common Law

 

In conclusion, and as a personal thought, it is very bad taste that such changes have not been notified to the members and / or participants of the tournament, only for not sharing a geographic region or a particular custom regarding schedule changes, as well as I reproach to impose the articulation of a regulation without first being notified the affected party, which represents a clear violation of the same rule, because, although in the regulation it mentioned that "The parties will only be played on Saturday and will begin to 21:00 ET for the first match and 22:30 ET for match two "(Art 2, numeral 2) there is nowhere in that regulation the responsibility that must have the tournament staff to comply with the principle of notification and the principle of publicity when any changes are made to the regulations.

 

 


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I agree there is an unfair advantage given to the teams in the daylight savings regions for no notifications nor publicity. These matches should be rescheduled accordingly giving 20% of the teams a level playing field and setting a higher standard for next tournaments regarding notification and publicity issues


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Ok, just talk regular...what is the complaint? That daylight savings time occurred in the United States which is the time zones established for the tournament? On your PC you can set up multiple clocks so you know what time it is in any country.

 


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Posted (edited) · Report post

Ok, just talk regular...what is the complaint? That daylight savings time occurred in the United States which is the time zones established for the tournament? On your PC you can set up multiple clocks so you know what time it is in any country.

 

 

The issue was that we didnt know about it and they didnt tell us that in the US they apply daylight saving time.     Edited by DujekOnearm

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We are totally dissatisfied with what happened last Saturday, the tournament staff must notify such changes to the participants of the tournament, they are aware that not all teams belong to the same time zone and we do not have the same custom of changing schedules, The worst of all was the response that the staff gave the same Saturday when we appealed the issue and they were asked directly why they had not notified said change and their response was: "I did not cross my mind" go answer ... This already Seems to be an act of discrimination towards the South American teams, I did not know that WG speaks to tournaments where discriminatory acts are promoted towards the Latin people like us, nor did I know that the staff is not qualified to give favorable solutions to problems like this when the same staff is The culprit for not having notified such change in advance.

We do not have the same culture, we do not have the same habits and we do not have the same time zone. We decided to participate in the tournament as it is a ran event, but we had no idea that they fomented discriminatory acts in the Supremacy League, and it was my surprise that WG speaks about such acts against the Latino community. 

 

Those battles (the first round of Saturday) should be rebuked since it was a mistake of the staff not to have notified in advance the change of schedule, or maybe they only want to hurt the Latin American teams?

 

 

Estamos totalmente inconformes con lo que pasó el sábado pasado, el staff del torneo debe notificar tales cambios a los participantes del torneo, ellos están concientes que no todos los equipos pertenecen a la misma zona horaria y no tenemos la misma costumbre de cambiar de horario, lo peor de todo fue la respuesta que dió el staff el mismo sábado cuando apelamos el tema y se les preguntó directamente por que no habían notificado dicho cambio y su respuesta fue: "No me cruzó por la cabeza" vaya respuesta... Esto ya parece un acto de discriminación hacia los equipos sudamericados, no sabía que WG habala torneos donde se fomentan actos discrimitavios hacia la gente latina como nosotros, tampoco sabía que el staff no está calificado para dar soluciones favorables a los problemas como este cuando el mismo staff es el culpable por no haber notificado dicho cambio con anticipación.

Nosotros NO tenemos la misma cultura, NO tenemos los mismos hábitos y NO tenemos la misma zona horaria. Nosotros decidimos participar en el torneo ya que es un ran evento, pero no teniamos idea que fomentan actos discriminatorios en la Supremacy League, y mayor fue mi sorpresa que WG habla este tipo de actos en contra de la comunidad latina.

 

Esas batallas (La primera ronda del sábado) deberían reproramarse ya que fue un error del staff el no haber notificado con anticipación el cambio de horario, o quizá solo quieren perjudicar a los equipos latinoamericanos?

 


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The issue was that we didnt know about it and they didnt tell us that in the US they apply daylight saving time.    

 

Whose responsibility is it to know what time the matches start? If you are in another country, how do you know what time 9pm eastern standard time is? 

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We are totally dissatisfied with what happened last Saturday, the tournament staff must notify such changes to the participants of the tournament, they are aware that not all teams belong to the same time zone and we do not have the same custom of changing schedules, The worst of all was the response that the staff gave the same Saturday when we appealed the issue and they were asked directly why they had not notified said change and their response was: "I did not cross my mind" go answer ... This already Seems to be an act of discrimination towards the South American teams, I did not know that WG speaks to tournaments where discriminatory acts are promoted towards the Latin people like us, nor did I know that the staff is not qualified to give favorable solutions to problems like this when the same staff is The culprit for not having notified such change in advance.

We do not have the same culture, we do not have the same habits and we do not have the same time zone. We decided to participate in the tournament as it is a ran event, but we had no idea that they fomented discriminatory acts in the Supremacy League, and it was my surprise that WG speaks about such acts against the Latino community. 

 

Those battles (the first round of Saturday) should be rebuked since it was a mistake of the staff not to have notified in advance the change of schedule, or maybe they only want to hurt the Latin American teams?

 

 

Estamos totalmente inconformes con lo que pasó el sábado pasado, el staff del torneo debe notificar tales cambios a los participantes del torneo, ellos están concientes que no todos los equipos pertenecen a la misma zona horaria y no tenemos la misma costumbre de cambiar de horario, lo peor de todo fue la respuesta que dió el staff el mismo sábado cuando apelamos el tema y se les preguntó directamente por que no habían notificado dicho cambio y su respuesta fue: "No me cruzó por la cabeza" vaya respuesta... Esto ya parece un acto de discriminación hacia los equipos sudamericados, no sabía que WG habala torneos donde se fomentan actos discrimitavios hacia la gente latina como nosotros, tampoco sabía que el staff no está calificado para dar soluciones favorables a los problemas como este cuando el mismo staff es el culpable por no haber notificado dicho cambio con anticipación.

Nosotros NO tenemos la misma cultura, NO tenemos los mismos hábitos y NO tenemos la misma zona horaria. Nosotros decidimos participar en el torneo ya que es un ran evento, pero no teniamos idea que fomentan actos discriminatorios en la Supremacy League, y mayor fue mi sorpresa que WG habla este tipo de actos en contra de la comunidad latina.

 

Esas batallas (La primera ronda del sábado) deberían reproramarse ya que fue un error del staff el no haber notificado con anticipación el cambio de horario, o quizá solo quieren perjudicar a los equipos latinoamericanos?

 

Sorry but I disagree. You are playing in a tournament where the rules were established that they use 9pm est as the anchor. It is each clans responsibility to know when 9pm est is for their players. 

 

Unfortunately, sometimes the only way to learn is from mistakes. It is nothing against latin america...that is a senseless argument.


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Sorry but I disagree. You are playing in a tournament where the rules were established that they use 9pm est as the anchor. It is each clans responsibility to know when 9pm est is for their players. 

 

Unfortunately, sometimes the only way to learn is from mistakes. It is nothing against latin america...that is a senseless argument.

 

The staff of every tournament is obliged to notify the changes that arise during the same, but only show a clear act of discrimination, as we are not North American people only give negative, WG excellent to shake acts like this.

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ok guys you signed up for a  tournament being held on the north american server and you didnt get a clock to show you the time for that region??I think that was poor planning by your respective clans, my clan has  some members based outside north america but they still managed to show up for the matches.So all i can say is get the respective leaders of those clans to pay  attention to such things, i dont think vas or the other league admins are to blame. On another note, Vas it would be great to have a  clock  or a timer to matches on the supremacy website, so in future such blunders by clans cannot be used an excuse to miss matches


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The staff of every tournament is obliged to notify the changes that arise during the same, but only show a clear act of discrimination, as we are not North American people only give negative, WG excellent to shake acts like this.

 

Maybe this is a lost in translation post? I do not understand what is being said. I apologize. 

 

But here is a question: What are you trying to resolve? If you are trying to appeal to the ones responsible for for Supremacy League, then you know where to contact them. 

 

If you are venting because you are upset you didn't know what time 9pm eastern standard time, then this is the place for that.

 

If you are trying to toss unrealistic claims out hoping that, you pity someone into giving you a pass, I do not see that happening here.

 

But i will say this, my experience with the Latin community is that they are extremely smart, attractive, and full of ingenuity. So it would be false to assume that the Latin community would need to have their hand held, about when daylight savings time occurs on the North American Server in which they play World Of Warships. If anyone here is discriminating against the Latin community here, it is you, fine sir. Because the very definition of discriminate means: make an unjust or prejudicial distinction in the treatment of different categories of people or things, especially on the grounds of race, sex, or age.

It sounds to me like you received the same treatment as everyone else, which is the very OPPOSITE of discrimination.

 


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As an active member of the FALCO clan and fellow members of other clans seems to me a total lack of respect for the Latino community since it is absurd to give priority to calling a region, why?

Easy, WoWS is played globally so both CCs and Staff should be more attentive and active to all kinds of changes and drawbacks to achieve a better job in this way.

Therefore I think some action should be taken to solve this "error" because if it was a big mistake to overlook something like this

 

como miembro activo del clan FALCO y compañero de integrantes de otros clanes me parece un falta total de respeto para la comunidad latina ya que es absurdo darle prioridad por asi llamarle a una region, porque ? 

Facil, WoWS se juega de forma global por lo que tanto CCs como Staff deberian estar mas atentos y activos a todo tipo de cambios e inconvenientes para lograr un mejor trabajo de esta forma.

Por lo tanto opino se deberia tomar alguna medida para solucionar este "error" porque si fue un gran error dejar pasar por alto algo como esto 

 

 

 


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Ducati, not every country uses a day light saving time, nobody is speaking of not knowing the scheduled time, but the changings of it. Read well and think before talk. You are not the world, you are a small part of it.


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Ducati, not every country uses a day light saving time, nobody is speaking of not knowing the scheduled time, but the changings of it. Read well and think before talk. You are not the world, you are a small part of it.

 

LOL! I know...I'm not claiming to be! Let's get this straight though, what server are we playing on?

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ok guys you signed up for a  tournament being held on the north american server and you didnt get a clock to show you the time for that region??I think that was poor planning by your respective clans, my clan has  some members based outside north america but they still managed to show up for the matches.So all i can say is get the respective leaders of those clans to pay  attention to such things, i dont think vas or the other league admins are to blame. On another note, Vas it would be great to have a  clock  or a timer to matches on the supremacy website, so in future such blunders by clans cannot be used an excuse to miss matches

 

And you did notified those clans members based outside north america that they had to be 1 hour before normal schedule in order to be on time to the matches, right?... Because I don't think that they also know about the time change, or even aware that the time change occur

 

 

Sorry but I disagree. You are playing in a tournament where the rules were established that they use 9pm est as the anchor. It is each clans responsibility to know when 9pm est is for their players. 

 

Unfortunately, sometimes the only way to learn is from mistakes. It is nothing against latin america...that is a senseless argument.

 

Yes, you are right, the rules are set at 9pm est... but you live on a region when 9pm is changing time every 3 or 4 months, Advancing 1 hour or retreating 1 hour, while in the rest of the world stays the same... and you expect me to have the habit of be checking the clock every 3 moths to see if I have the same time as you do? see the dilema, that's what atypical to us, maybe you do it on daily bases, maybe you are already used to it because it's part of the region custom, but it is not ours, therefore a little notification in advance is well appreciated, but that did not happen.

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And you did notified those clans members based outside north america that they had to be 1 hour before normal schedule in order to be on time to the matches, right?... Because I don't think that they also know about the time change, or even aware that the time change occur

 

 

Yes, you are right, the rules are set at 9pm est... but you live on a region when 9pm is changing time every 3 or 4 months, Advancing 1 hour or retreating 1 hour, while in the rest of the world stays the same... and you expect me to have the habit of be checking the clock every 3 moths to see if I have the same time as you do? see the dilema, that's what atypical to us, maybe you do it on daily bases, maybe you are already used to it because it's part of the region custom, but it is not ours, therefore a little notification in advance is well appreciated, but that did not happen.

 

Fair enough.

 

Well November 5th 2017 we gain an hour. Sunday March 11th 2018 we lose an hour. Sunday November 4th 2018 we gain an hour.

 

 


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I'm new to supremacy league and im not here representing my team, these are just my personal opinions:

 

1. Blame is on both sides, league could have anticipated this and warned teams outside of US. Non US teams should have been more attentive although if they have never heard of day light savings this would be difficult to catch.

 

2. Affected teams could be offered a rescheduled match. I for one would much rather play than accept a forfeit.

 

3. This sucks. More teams in SL is good and pissing off teams outside US may deter them from further participation.


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LOL! I know...I'm not claiming to be! Let's get this straight though, what server are we playing on?

 

Yes, we are playing in the NA server... and if you expect that only people from North America will be playing in the server... it's like thinking that only people from Russia are allow to play in the RU server, or that only people from Germany are allow to play in the EU server or that only people from Singapore are allow to play in the Asian server...     

 

http://wiki.wargaming.net/en/Servers (Location of each server)

Edited by Crosys

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Latina? Girls?

 

Now you start insulting? If you do not know the language better do not comment on it, we express our disagreement with the staff, but I see that you only have intentions to attack the Latin people, now we fall into racism?

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Yes, we are playing in the NA server... and if you expect that only people from North America will be playing in the server... it's like thinking that only people from Russia is allow to play in the RU server, or that only people from Germany are allow to play in the EU server or that only people from Singapore are allow to play in the Asian server...     

 

http://wiki.wargaming.net/en/Servers (Location of each server)

 

My point is...I play on all the servers as well. You better believe I know what time it is on the server I play on.

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Now you start insulting? If you do not know the language better do not comment on it, we express our disagreement with the staff, but I see that you only have intentions to attack the Latin people, now we fall into racism?

 

No, I was under the understanding that Latina = feminine. This was just my own curiosity. It would be nice to have some Latin women playing video games.

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No, I was under the understanding that Latina = feminine. This was just my own curiosity. It would be nice to have some Latin women playing video games.

 

I repeat if you know the language better do not make comments, in case you did not know "Latina" can be used in different contexts.

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I repeat if you know the language better do not make comments, in case you did not know "Latina" can be used in different contexts.

 

Ah, thank you for the clarification. 

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The thing is guys, in my personal opinion, leaving my clan apart from this post, that both sides made mistakes. We latin and south american players should have been more aware of the schedule and it's modifications and staff members and other clan's representatives should have considered to told us what would happen. As Crosys is saying, US players and Latin and South American players are in different time zones, and each one of us is used to different things. I'm not talking about server schedule, but geographical area and time zone. Once the battles started, we set a specific hour according to the hour at the ET, and we thought that it would not change. We are used to gain just one hour in the summer, and since none of us live in the US, we could not know that we had to modificate the previous schedule. We are trying to express our dissatisfaction with that issue, besides that the response the staff gave us was not a good one at all. As members of the staff, therefore people in charge, they should have given a different and much more convenient answer and should have tried at least to offer a solution.

Edited by Miguel_gtz_cas94

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